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Hi everybody,

I desperately need your help. I arrived in the UK on a Spousal Visa 2016, I've completed my 60 months/5years in March this year and applied for my ILR. The response email I got told me that I had only stayed in the country 30 months and that I must push another 30 months to 2023 December and that my BRP only expires in December 2023 and I have 14 days from the email date to confirm if I will withdraw my application. I went on to tell the Home office person that my BRP already expired after completion of the five years, I also questioned them if they have the wrong person as the date they said I did my submission, June this year was wrong. I asked the person to clarify all this information as I expected to receive my ILR....but instead they have now gone quiet on me. I tried calling the Home Office enquiry number and they said they I should keep emailing and hopefully I'll get a reply, but what If they dont reply until the 14 day deadline has passed. Somebody please help??

Locksy wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:39 pm

what If they dont reply until the 14 day deadline has passed. Somebody please help??

As is normal, did you originally obtain your spouse visa in 2016 and then applied for and were granted further leave 2½ years later which expired earlier this year? If this was the case it indeed seems that the HO are mixing you up with another person.

When within the last few days you set out your case to the HO was that a direct reply to the HO's email which invited you to withdraw your application? If so, and provided you are 100% certain of the facts as you outlined them and there were no mistakes in the ILR application, I suggest you do nothing further, let the ILR application run, don't withdraw it and wait for the HO to check the facts and respond to your email. This may take some time.

If you made the ILR application before your BRP expired your leave under the spouse visa continues (section 3c) and your stay in the UK is perfectly legal.

Note that telephone enquiries to the HO are outsourced to a private company and when you call you don't speak to HO staff.






?

I think u forgot to apply flrm (further leave to remain ) after 30 months of ur arrival back in 2016 .

Kaykash wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:09 pm

I think u forgot to apply flrm (further leave to remain ) after 30 months of ur arrival back in 2016 .

The question has been asked but the OP hasn't replied yet

I was provided a visa for 5 years leave to enter Spousal visa, (60 months ) and not a (30 month) 2.5yrs Spousal visa.
Does this mean the Home Office issued the wrong time frame on the visa?
After 5 years the Home Office is telling me that I have been granted 30 months under leave to Enter for the past 60 months.Is this normal?

manci wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:26 pm

Locksy wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:39 pm

what If they dont reply until the 14 day deadline has passed. Somebody please help??

As is normal, did you originally obtain your spouse visa in 2016 and then applied for and were granted further leave 2½ years later which expired earlier this year? If this was the case it indeed seems that the HO are mixing you up with another person.

When within the last few days you set out your case to the HO was that a direct reply to the HO's email which invited you to withdraw your application? If so, and provided you are 100% certain of the facts as you outlined them and there were no mistakes in the ILR application, I suggest you do nothing further, let the ILR application run, don't withdraw it and wait for the HO to check the facts and respond to your email. This may take some time.

If you made the ILR application before your BRP expired your leave under the spouse visa continues (section 3c) and your stay in the UK is perfectly legal.

Note that telephone enquiries to the HO are outsourced to a private company and when you call you don't speak to HO staff.






?

Thanks Manci,

I did obtain the Spouse visa in 2016 and I was give 60 months. I did not apply for FLR. Thanks for the very helpful advice, much appreciated. Was I supposed to get a 30 month visa in the first instance, is it odd that I was given a 5year (60 month) visa instead or is this standard? Furthermore is the HO supposed to respond to my emails when I'm unsure of something or is it one email and no further response??

Locksy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:45 am

I did obtain the Spouse visa in 2016 and I was give 60 months. I did not apply for FLR. Thanks for the very helpful advice, much appreciated. Was I supposed to get a 30 month visa in the first instance, is it odd that I was given a 5year (60 month) visa instead or is this standard? Furthermore is the HO supposed to respond to my emails when I'm unsure of something or is it one email and no further response??

A spouse visa is NOT granted for 60 months, ever. It is granted for 33 months and then you have to apply for a visa extension before your initial visa expires.

Can you confirm exactly what visa category is stated on your BRP card?

Can you also list your visa start and expiry dates for the last 5 years?

What was your partners immigration status when you applied for the spouse visa in 2016?

If you applied under the family route, you should have been granted only up to 33 months of leave. What was the immigration status of your partner in 2016 when you applied ? Were you granted leave under Appendix FM of the rules ?

Many PBS dependants incorrectly call their visa route the 'spouse visa'

Beaten by Char

CR001 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:51 am

Locksy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:45 am

I did obtain the Spouse visa in 2016 and I was give 60 months. I did not apply for FLR. Thanks for the very helpful advice, much appreciated. Was I supposed to get a 30 month visa in the first instance, is it odd that I was given a 5year (60 month) visa instead or is this standard? Furthermore is the HO supposed to respond to my emails when I'm unsure of something or is it one email and no further response??

A spouse visa is NOT granted for 60 months, ever. It is granted for 33 months and then you have to apply for a visa extension before your initial visa expires.

Can you confirm exactly what visa category is stated on your BRP card?

Can you also list your visa start and expiry dates for the last 5 years?

What was your partners immigration status when you applied for the spouse visa in 2016?

Thanks, exactly what I thought.
Visa category stated on BRP card: Dependant Leave to Enter.
Visa start and expiry dates for the last 5 years: 02-03-2016 - 02-03-2021
Partners immigration status when I applied for the spouse visa in 2016? Ancestral Visa, 5 years from same dates

Locksy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:03 pm

Thanks, exactly what I thought.
Visa category stated on BRP card: Dependant Leave to Enter.
Visa start and expiry dates for the last 5 years: 02-03-2016 - 02-03-2021
Partners immigration status when I applied for the spouse visa in 2016? Ancestral Visa, 5 years from same dates

So you do not have a 'spouse visa'. You had an Ancestry dependent visa.

Did your spouse apply for ILR too? If yes, when and why did you not add your application to your partners form?

What form did you complete to apply for ILR? Was it Set(M)?? If yes, it is the wrong form.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:06 pm

Locksy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:03 pm

Thanks, exactly what I thought.
Visa category stated on BRP card: Dependant Leave to Enter.
Visa start and expiry dates for the last 5 years: 02-03-2016 - 02-03-2021
Partners immigration status when I applied for the spouse visa in 2016? Ancestral Visa, 5 years from same dates

So you do not have a 'spouse visa'. You had an Ancestry dependent visa.

Did your spouse apply for ILR too? If yes, when and why did you not add your application to your partners form?

What form did you complete to apply for ILR? Was it Set(M)?? If yes, it is the wrong form.

Thanks!

You had an Ancestry dependent visa: Oh. Thanks for the clarification. We thought that me being her partner automatically put me in an FM route.

Did your spouse apply for ILR too?: No she applied for right of abode October 2020, approved 5 January 2021.

Also HO finally replied:

They said I had not completed 5 years under Appendix Fm spouse Route and that I need to apply under the route I have completed your 5 years: I don't know what that is, do you know it, do you know the link?

How do I do that because I am so confused? And what Route is that?

You applied using form SET(M). That is the incorrect form for your route as you are not eligible under the family route. You must have applied using form SET(O). If you paid attention and read the government website you would have not made such mistake: https://www.gov.uk/settle-in-the-uk/y/y ... estry-visa

SET(O): https://visas-immigration.service.gov.uk/product/set-o

Apply using form SET(O) now and then email the UKVI team that you applied for SET(O) under the ancestry route and you want a variation. You should get a refund for your SET(M)

Zimba wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:36 pm

You applied using form SET(M). That is the incorrect form for your route as you are not eligible under the family route. You must have applied using form SET(O). If you paid attention and read the government website you would have not made such mistake: https://www.gov.uk/settle-in-the-uk/y/y ... estry-visa

SET(O): https://visas-immigration.service.gov.uk/product/set-o

Apply using form SET(O) now and then email the UKVI team that you applied for SET(O) under the ancestry route and you want a variation. You should get a refund for your SET(M)

Thanks Zimba, noted.
It is SET(O) indeed. My assumption put me at fault here.
Many thanks indeed to all who contributed. I'll keep you updated.

Note that you cannot apply for ILR on form SET(O) separately from your partner. You can only apply for ILR at the same time as your partner or once they have been granted ILR.

We thought that me being her partner automatically put me in an FM route.

Nothing is automatic. You would have to apply for the FM route spouse visa.

If your partner applied for Right of Abode, then you would not be able to apply for ILR as an Ancestry dependent and will have to apply for a spouse visa on form FLR(M), meeting the financial and English requirements (if applicable). This will reset your 5 year ILR clock to zero.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:55 pm

Note that you cannot apply for ILR on form SET(O) separately from your partner. You can only apply for ILR at the same time as your partner or once they have been granted ILR.

We thought that me being her partner automatically put me in an FM route.

Nothing is automatic. You would have to apply for the FM route spouse visa.

If your partner applied for Right of Abode, then you would not be able to apply for ILR as an Ancestry dependent and will have to apply for a spouse visa on form FLR(M), meeting the financial and English requirements (if applicable). This will reset your 5 year ILR clock to zero.

Oh, OK. FM route, spouse visa on FLR(M)Route. Thank you. Complications indeed. Thanks for the clarification.

Locksy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:50 pm

Zimba wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:36 pm

You applied using form SET(M). That is the incorrect form for your route as you are not eligible under the family route. You must have applied using form SET(O). If you paid attention and read the government website you would have not made such mistake: https://www.gov.uk/settle-in-the-uk/y/y ... estry-visa

SET(O): https://visas-immigration.service.gov.uk/product/set-o

Apply using form SET(O) now and then email the UKVI team that you applied for SET(O) under the ancestry route and you want a variation. You should get a refund for your SET(M)

Thanks Zimba, noted.
It is SET(O) indeed. My assumption put me at fault here.
Many thanks indeed to all who contributed. I'll keep you updated.

Char is indeed correct. I overlooked the part that your partner did not apply under SET(O)

Zimba wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:16 pm

Locksy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:50 pm

Zimba wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:36 pm

You applied using form SET(M). That is the incorrect form for your route as you are not eligible under the family route. You must have applied using form SET(O). If you paid attention and read the government website you would have not made such mistake: https://www.gov.uk/settle-in-the-uk/y/y ... estry-visa

SET(O): https://visas-immigration.service.gov.uk/product/set-o

Apply using form SET(O) now and then email the UKVI team that you applied for SET(O) under the ancestry route and you want a variation. You should get a refund for your SET(M)

Thanks Zimba, noted.
It is SET(O) indeed. My assumption put me at fault here.
Many thanks indeed to all who contributed. I'll keep you updated.

Char is indeed correct. I overlooked the part that your partner did not apply under SET(O)

Thanks Zimba, appreciated.

Locksy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:15 pm

Note that you cannot apply for ILR on form SET(O) separately from your partner. You can only apply for ILR at the same time as your partner

The partner and the OP spent 5 years in the UK on an Ancestry and Ancestry Dependant visa respectively. Is it not possible for both of them to apply together for ILR now even though the partner has RoA?

The visas have already expired so the main ancestry visa holder no longer has a valid visa.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:08 pm

The visas have already expired so the main ancestry visa holder no longer has a valid visa.

It doesn't seem to be a requirement for the main applicant to have a valid Ancestry visa at the time of applying for ILR, only to have spent 5 years in the UK with permission on the UK Ancestry route (UKA 13.1), which she did.

If this is correct The Ancestry Dependant could vary his FLR(M) application to a SET(O) application provided there is no decision on it yet.

Is the main applicant's RoA an impediment?

Is the main applicant's RoA an impediment?

Yes.

An ancestry dependent can only apply for ilr when the main visa holder also applies or already holds ILR based on 5 years ancestry.

The only option the op has is to apply or vary to FLR M. I have not seen a spouse visa application of a person whose partner holds ROA.

the op maybe needs to clarify what her partner applied for last year, IE citizenship registration on form UKM or UKF or ROA Coe.

RoA is a niche area of the rules that needs delving into the legislation to fully understand it but I haven't come across anything to suggest that a person with RoA cannot apply for ILR if he is otherwise eligible for it as I think the main applicant may be.

It doesn't seem to be a requirement to have a valid ancestry visa at the time of the ILR application and the main applicant has completed 5 years on the ancestry visa which is the main requirement.

If this is the case the OP and the partner could make a SET(O) application at the same time which is allowed under the rules (UKA 30.1).

Perhaps @secret.simon can offer some insight.

Remember only a British citizen can hold roa in a foreign passport. A British citizen cannot apply for immigration routes

manci wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:45 pm

RoA is a niche area of the rules that needs delving into the legislation to fully understand it but I haven't come across anything to suggest that a person with RoA cannot apply for ILR if he is otherwise eligible for it as I think the main applicant may be.

A non-British Commonwealth citizen with RoA is treated as if they are British citizens for the purposes of immigration law (see Section 2 of the Immigration Act 1971 below) and hence I agree with @CR001 that if the main applicant already had RoA at the time of application (as opposed to being eligible for RoA under Form UKM or UKF, etc), they would not be eligible to apply for any visa under the Immigration Rules.

Section 2 of the Immigration Act 1971 wrote:2 Statement of right of abode in United Kingdom.
(2)In relation to Commonwealth citizens who have the right of abode in the United Kingdom by virtue of subsection (1)(b) above, this Act, except this section and 5(2), shall apply as if they were British citizens; and in this Act (except as aforesaid) “British citizen” shall be construed accordingly.

Section 1, subsection 1 of that Act also seems to preclude anyone with RoA (i.e. either British citizens or Commonwealth citizens with RoA) from being subject to the limitations of leave to remain, i.e. they can't be subject to a visa.

Section 1 of the Immigration Act 1971 wrote:1 General principles.
(1)All those who are in this Act expressed to have the right of abode in the United Kingdom shall be free to live in, and to come and go into and from, the United Kingdom without let or hindrance except such as may be required under and in accordance with this Act to enable their right to be established or as may be otherwise lawfully imposed on any person.

manci wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:32 pm

It doesn't seem to be a requirement for the main applicant to have a valid Ancestry visa at the time of applying for ILR, only to have spent 5 years in the UK with permission on the UK Ancestry route (UKA 13.1), which she did.

But also see UKA 21.1.

Relationship requirements for a partner on the UK Ancestry route

UKA 21.1. The applicant must be the partner of a person (P) and one of the following must apply:
(a) P has permission on the UK Ancestry route; or
(b) P is, at the same time, applying for (and is granted) permission on the UK Ancestry route; or
(c) if the applicant is applying for permission to stay, P is settled or has become a British citizen, providing P had permission on the UK Ancestry route when they settled.

I would interpret "has permission on the UK Ancestry route;" as meaning that the main applicant has existing/extant/current permission, not in the past tense.
Even subsection (c) does not seem to give a way out. with the requirement that the main applicant (P) "had permission on the UK Ancestry route when they settled.". I interpret the last three words as meaning that the main applicant needs to have acquired ILR with the Ancestry route having been their immediately preceding leave to remain.

@secret_simon
I agree that as per s 2(2) of the 1971 Act persons with RoA are deemed to be British citizens for immigration law purposes, even if de facto they are not, therefore they cannot make an immigration application such as for ILR.

However, I think UKA 21.1 and UKA 30.1 are less clear and open to interpretation. The relevant relationship requirement is:

P is settled or has become a British citizen, providing P had permission on the UK Ancestry route when they settled.

As an alternative to your interpretation it could be argued that P has become a British citizen for immigration law purposes when she was granted RoA and this was following permission on the Ancestry route.

If this interpretation is correct then her dependant spouse (the OP) could be eligible for ILR on the Ancestry route. Although I wouldn't read too much into it this is also what the HO implied in their email to the OP:

Locksy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:33 pm

Also HO finally replied:

They said I had not completed 5 years under Appendix Fm spouse Route and that I need to apply under the route I have completed your 5 years

: