Immigrationboards.com

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:49 pm**

Dear All

Am here putting down my friends story about his getting ILR,could all seniors ,experts shed the light on it please.

He has got his 5yr workpermit from his employer,but he never worked for his employer ,as his employer was not potential to empoy him at all.But he kind of helped him to get his workpermit through his company,that is all he had done for him.
Now he has been working for different company pretty much all 4.3 years and paid tax properly got pay slips as well.Now the time is coming to end in 9 months.What does he have to do now, in regards to apply for the ILR.
First of all how will HO take this case? Will he be able to apply for ILR at all?
so many question now posing..
could you all advise him please at this moment what can he do best to make things better.
Thanks in advance to all gurus ,experts and to memebers

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:11 pm**

Is your friend working for the other company on a permanent basis? If yes, then he is screwed. Because he cannot work as permanent employee of a company which is not sponsoring his WP. All he can do is to work with client on contract but employer should be the one who sponsor his WP.

moris wrote:Dear All

Am here putting down my friends story about his getting ILR,could all seniors ,experts shed the light on it please.

He has got his 5yr workpermit from his employer,but he never worked for his employer ,as his employer was not potential to empoy him at all.But he kind of helped him to get his workpermit through his company,that is all he had done for him.
Now he has been working for different company pretty much all 4.3 years and paid tax properly got pay slips as well.Now the time is coming to end in 9 months.What does he have to do now, in regards to apply for the ILR.
First of all how will HO take this case? Will he be able to apply for ILR at all?
so many question now posing..
could you all advise him please at this moment what can he do best to make things better.
Thanks in advance to all gurus ,experts and to memebers

Posted: **Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:55 am**

WP from X employer working for Y - you dont have a case IMO...

what you may get away with is, apply for Tier#1... then apply for ILR in couple of years and hope and pray HO will award ILR purely based on checking his tier#1 time period docs...

Posted: **Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:42 am**

I agree with Chetan, if your WP is sponsored by company A and paid by company B (if you have salary slips of company B) you are in trouble as you have bleached the T&C of WP.

You should be fine if company A (who sponsored WP) as acting as unbrella company and paying salary.

chetanojha wrote:Is your friend working for the other company on a permanent basis? If yes, then he is screwed. Because he cannot work as permanent employee of a company which is not sponsoring his WP. All he can do is to work with client on contract but employer should be the one who sponsor his WP.

moris wrote:Dear All

Am here putting down my friends story about his getting ILR,could all seniors ,experts shed the light on it please.

He has got his 5yr workpermit from his employer,but he never worked for his employer ,as his employer was not potential to empoy him at all.But he kind of helped him to get his workpermit through his company,that is all he had done for him.
Now he has been working for different company pretty much all 4.3 years and paid tax properly got pay slips as well.Now the time is coming to end in 9 months.What does he have to do now, in regards to apply for the ILR.
First of all how will HO take this case? Will he be able to apply for ILR at all?
so many question now posing..
could you all advise him please at this moment what can he do best to make things better.
Thanks in advance to all gurus ,experts and to memebers

Posted: **Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:54 am**

Thanks for ur valuble advises.Unfortunately he is not eligible for tire 1or 2. Also his Employer has no other bussiness other than one he got.That means my friend who is working for a different company is completely a third company.
If starts working for his original employer from now will this bring any changes?

Posted: **Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:00 pm**

moris wrote:Thanks for ur valuble advises.Unfortunately he is not eligible for tire 1or 2. Also his Employer has no other bussiness other than one he got.That means my friend who is working for a different company is completely a third company.
If starts working for his original employer from now will this bring any changes?

Nope - as an illegal worker there's no option but to leave and apply from home country.

Means starting from scratch and there's also a good chance this mess will come to and bite him in the shape of visa denial....

Posted: **Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:07 pm**

moris wrote:Thanks for ur valuble advises.Unfortunately he is not eligible for tire 1or 2. Also his Employer has no other bussiness other than one he got.That means my friend who is working for a different company is completely a third company.
If starts working for his original employer from now will this bring any changes?

Only if home office dont know about this..but he has to provide 5 years p60 and pay slips for ILR and this would be a problem.

How he would prove he was working for same employer for 5 years period.

So no chance.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:02 am**

Hi
I have read his story. Buttom line is A CLEARE BREACH OF GIVEN PERMISSION. He will be caught up when the HO Case worker put his details in system and check tax details from Inland Revenue database, it will appear that he paid tax but it will also appear that tax receive from that B company and there is no sign of Tax a company on which he did get permission, also that employer is in trouble for future and might not be able to apply for any geniune WP.
SO THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HOPE

There was a solution for his case but its tooo late, the moment he got WP from employer A , he should have start paying his Tax contribution every month so in five years at least he could establish his Tax history. but now there is not a single hope

take care

moris wrote:Dear All

Am here putting down my friends story about his getting ILR,could all seniors ,experts shed the light on it please.

He has got his 5yr workpermit from his employer,but he never worked for his employer ,as his employer was not potential to empoy him at all.But he kind of helped him to get his workpermit through his company,that is all he had done for him.
Now he has been working for different company pretty much all 4.3 years and paid tax properly got pay slips as well.Now the time is coming to end in 9 months.What does he have to do now, in regards to apply for the ILR.
First of all how will HO take this case? Will he be able to apply for ILR at all?
so many question now posing..
could you all advise him please at this moment what can he do best to make things better.
Thanks in advance to all gurus ,experts and to memebers

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:41 am**

Wanderer wrote:
moris wrote:Thanks for ur valuble advises.Unfortunately he is not eligible for tire 1or 2. Also his Employer has no other bussiness other than one he got.That means my friend who is working for a different company is completely a third company.
If starts working for his original employer from now will this bring any changes?
Nope - as an illegal worker there's no option but to leave and apply from home country.

Means starting from scratch and there's also a good chance this mess will come to and bite him in the shape of visa denial....

Second this but ... Another option is to stay illegal. If his current employer has managed to employ him with his WP, this means that they don't know the rule, so hopefully he could continue working there even after his WP has expired.
From the HO perspective, he is already illegal so his case can't get worse. After 14 years he can legally apply for ILR.

--------

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:43 am**

[quote="Syed6229"]Hi
I have read his story. Buttom line is A CLEARE BREACH OF GIVEN PERMISSION. He will be caught up when the HO Case worker put his details in system and check tax details from Inland Revenue database, it will appear that he paid tax but it will also appear that tax receive from that B company and there is no sign of Tax a company on which he did get permission, also that employer is in trouble for future and might not be able to apply for any geniune WP.
SO THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HOPE

There was a solution for his case but its tooo late, the moment he got WP from employer A , he should have start paying his Tax contribution every month so in five years at least he could establish his Tax history. but now there is not a single hope

I dont think I fully agree with Syed here. Its true this is a clear breach of permission but i dont think Caseworkers have direct access to HMRC database just like that. if a caseworker wants to find out ofcourse he can but they will have to contact HMRC for that. anyway no body knows exactely what caseworker can see/check.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:54 am**

The caseworker has direct access to all official records. When you sign the application form you give your permission for this. With a WP application tax contributions will be checked as a standard process.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:22 pm**

Casa wrote:The caseworker has direct access to all official records. When you sign the application form you give your permission for this. With a WP application tax contributions will be checked as a standard process.

Being a Moderator with more than 1000 posts you know much more than me but i still do not think caseworkes cannot just sit infornt of their computer and access all tax records. if that was the becase they would not ask for p60/pay slips at all.
i totaly agree that they can check tax contribution if they want to but they will have to contact hmrc for this (via phone or letter)

again this is only my opinion and this is my first few replies to a post though i have read 100s if not thousands of posts on this forum.
having said that I am not 100% sure.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:40 pm**

I too agree with Casa on this.. one of my colleagues had the same problem on ILR (Premium appointment). His case was straight forward but there was some issue in the HMRC records and hence his application was delayed by few days.. It is a normal practice for the case worker to look at HMRC and Police computer..

Like you have read in 100s posts something called results of "checks" as standard procedure.

notsunny wrote:
Casa wrote:The caseworker has direct access to all official records. When you sign the application form you give your permission for this. With a WP application tax contributions will be checked as a standard process.
Being a Moderator with more than 1000 posts you know much more than me but i still do not think caseworkes cannot just sit infornt of their computer and access all tax records. if that was the becase they would not ask for p60/pay slips at all.
i totaly agree that they can check tax contribution if they want to but they will have to contact hmrc for this (via phone or letter)

again this is only my opinion and this is my first few replies to a post though i have read 100s if not thousands of posts on this forum.
having said that I am not 100% sure.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:49 pm**

Notsunny, the point isn't how quickly the Home Office can access the information...simply that they can, and will do.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:59 pm**

nksg wrote:I too agree with Casa on this.. one of my colleagues had the same problem on ILR (Premium appointment). His case was straight forward but there was some issue in the HMRC records and hence his application was delayed by few days.. It is a normal practice for the case worker to look at HMRC and Police computer..

Like you have read in 100s posts something called results of "checks" as standard procedure.

notsunny wrote:
Casa wrote:The caseworker has direct access to all official records. When you sign the application form you give your permission for this. With a WP application tax contributions will be checked as a standard process.
Being a Moderator with more than 1000 posts you know much more than me but i still do not think caseworkes cannot just sit infornt of their computer and access all tax records. if that was the becase they would not ask for p60/pay slips at all.
i totaly agree that they can check tax contribution if they want to but they will have to contact hmrc for this (via phone or letter)

again this is only my opinion and this is my first few replies to a post though i have read 100s if not thousands of posts on this forum.
having said that I am not 100% sure.

I dont think there is any point arguing about this. Employers only submit PAYE tax records for their emplyees after April each year. if someone provides last 3 months pay slips with tax records before april caseworker will not see anything on HMRC computer becasue it is not there!!
may be they can check if there is any outstanding tax (for previous years)
they could also access records to see if someone has claimed benefits like tax credits.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:27 pm**

Casa wrote:The caseworker has direct access to all official records. When you sign the application form you give your permission for this. With a WP application tax contributions will be checked as a standard process.

@CASA Completely wrong.
Home Office dont have access to Tax department yet.

They are planing to do that but at this time No.They have not.

Yes they can write to tax department and can ask about someone tax status.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:28 pm**

notsunny wrote:
Syed6229 wrote:Hi
I dont think I fully agree with Syed here. Its true this is a clear breach of permission but i dont think Caseworkers have direct access to HMRC database just like that. if a caseworker wants to find out ofcourse he can but they will have to contact HMRC for that. anyway no body knows exactely what caseworker can see/check.

Yes I back that information.

They dont have access to tax dept.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:32 pm**

I'll say again...when you sign the application form you give the UKBA authority to access all relevant records including HMRC.
Also note that I said it's not how long it takes them to get the information...but the fact that they can.
The OP has been working illegally for several years for a different employer other than his permit allows. If you think the UKBA won't find this out then you're very much mistaken.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:44 pm**

Casa wrote:I'll say again...when you sign the application form you give the UKBA authority to access all relevant records including HMRC.
Also note that I said it's not how long it takes them to get the information...but the fact that they can.
The OP has been working illegally for several years for a different employer other than his permit allows. If you think the UKBA won't find this out then you're very much mistaken.

Dear Casa

We all accpeted that they can write to tax dept for information.No dispute about that

I differ to only point you said they have direct access to tax dept while thats not true.

Home office is trying to make online tax records as well and in near future they have this.

This was recently announced by home office but till today they dont have direct access to tax records.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:03 pm**

For your reference...information is shared through the online 'legal gateway' as the official statement following:
Most disclosures of information by HMRC to UKBA will be made through the gateway provided by the UK Borders Act 2007, as listed below. Note that information can still be shared with HMRC officers in the UKBA in accordance with s.17 CRCA (Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005). Please see IDG25000 for more details. If this route is taken, the recipient of the information will not be able to disclose the information to non-HMRC officers unless done so in accordance with s.18 CRCA.

You must also ensure when passing information to UKBA that you follow the agreed procedure for disclosures. Details are listed under each type of disclosure to UKBA, being:

For all of HMRC
IDG69030 Disclosing to UKBA through the gateway provided by the UK Borders Act 2007 (immigration, asylum and nationality matters)

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:26 pm**

My dear
Dont just assum that HO or case worker have no access to HMRC, from September 2009 they have interlinked their data base with Police, DVLA , Social Securities and HMRC .
After taking your application they run couple of data base searches and these searches last for 40 minutes and then they come to the decision.
My colleague had gone through recently and they did it for him and he told me so do dare to take chance or assume as these day UKBA getting tough and efficient.
I hope you understand where I am comming from.

notsunny wrote:
Syed6229 wrote:Hi
I have read his story. Buttom line is A CLEARE BREACH OF GIVEN PERMISSION. He will be caught up when the HO Case worker put his details in system and check tax details from Inland Revenue database, it will appear that he paid tax but it will also appear that tax receive from that B company and there is no sign of Tax a company on which he did get permission, also that employer is in trouble for future and might not be able to apply for any geniune WP.
SO THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HOPE

There was a solution for his case but its tooo late, the moment he got WP from employer A , he should have start paying his Tax contribution every month so in five years at least he could establish his Tax history. but now there is not a single hope

I dont think I fully agree with Syed here. Its true this is a clear breach of permission but i dont think Caseworkers have direct access to HMRC database just like that. if a caseworker wants to find out ofcourse he can but they will have to contact HMRC for that. anyway no body knows exactely what caseworker can see/check.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:49 pm**

My dear
Dont just assum that HO or case worker have no access to HMRC, from September 2009 they have interlinked their data base with Police, DVLA , Social Securities and HMRC .
After taking your application they run couple of data base searches and these searches last for 40 minutes and then they come to the decision.
My colleague had gone through recently and they did it for him and he told me so do dare to take chance or assume as these day UKBA getting tough and efficient.
I hope you understand where I am comming from.

notsunny wrote:
Syed6229 wrote:Hi
I have read his story. Buttom line is A CLEARE BREACH OF GIVEN PERMISSION. He will be caught up when the HO Case worker put his details in system and check tax details from Inland Revenue database, it will appear that he paid tax but it will also appear that tax receive from that B company and there is no sign of Tax a company on which he did get permission, also that employer is in trouble for future and might not be able to apply for any geniune WP.
SO THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HOPE

There was a solution for his case but its tooo late, the moment he got WP from employer A , he should have start paying his Tax contribution every month so in five years at least he could establish his Tax history. but now there is not a single hope

I dont think I fully agree with Syed here. Its true this is a clear breach of permission but i dont think Caseworkers have direct access to HMRC database just like that. if a caseworker wants to find out ofcourse he can but they will have to contact HMRC for that. anyway no body knows exactly what caseworker can see/check.

Sorry dont agree that home office have online system of tax dept.
For a moment I accept that they have then why they ask for p60 and pay slips or N.I numbers they can check by themselves.

Then why home office ask for employer letters?
There are lots of why?

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:09 pm**

I agree with LynnUK, I don't think it's that easy.

Whilst UKBA are able to access certain information there are information from other departments have to be requested and can't be accessed directly.

There was also a recent news report on this exact same problem. Certain types of work permit applications are delayed by 6 months because WP department had to formally request info from another department within HO, who had a backlog of ... 6 months.

I really don't think the immigration process, no matter what type of application, is as easy as we would like to think. The infrastructure required for UKBA to have access to ALL necessary government systems would be very expensive and complicated. Also a high security risk, staff would have to go through a very extensive security check before being employed. This process can take up to two years (I have a "friend" who recently started working for the Government and can't fully do his job until all the security checks have completed ... he's been told 2 years minimum

)

So to have this information immediately to hand from the applicant quickens the process.

Remember this is my opinion only and I'm not defending UKBA at all.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:13 pm**

So we'll ask the HMRC to take this information off the Government Gateway site about sharing information through the Legal Gateway with the UKBA shall we? The HMRC have obviously got it wrong.
By the way....the UKBA need information to feed into the system in the first place...P60, tax reference etc. They don't have a crystal ball.
I'll leave discuss this amongst yourselves.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:16 pm**

Casa wrote:So we'll ask the HMRC to take this information off the Government Gateway site about sharing information through the Legal Gateway with the UKBA shall we? The HMRC have obviously got it wrong.
By the way....the UKBA need information to feed into the system in the first place...P60, tax reference etc. They don't have a crystal ball.
I'll leave discuss this amongst yourselves.

True, as usual I opted to look at it from a complicated point of view

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