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when re applying for a FAMILY PERMIT,is it good to mention and clarify reasons for their denial in a new application and if you do so,would they then try and come up with other reasons to deny the family permit then???

The visa office will naturally know that you have been refused previously and the reason why. Thus you will have to address their concerns as best as you can.

It's pointless to speculate what they could or would do. If you get turned down again but you still believe you have a case you can also appeal.

montana wrote:when re applying for a FAMILY PERMIT,is it good to mention and clarify reasons for their denial in a new application and if you do so,would they then try and come up with other reasons to deny the family permit then???

If applying again and the refusal reasons were spurious, by all means mention them.

What were the original reasons for the refusal? Where is your EU spouse presently?

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:What were the original reasons for the refusal? Where is your EU spouse presently?

It was actually for my dependant brother and he is based in a non EU state.
The reasons below where used to deny the application;
That he did not leave in another EEA state hence he didnot qualify and secondly ,that he could easily turn to his younger brothers and sisters who are in boarding school for support hence they deemed the permit should not be issued.How would a sensible ECO really advice someone to be asking for financial/emotional aid from a minor whose in boarding school and this minor is sponsored by someone

Doesn't need to live in another member state - EEA Regs amended to reflect the judgement in Metock.

Other family members? Sounds like the ECO is applying the Immigration Rules.

Does not matter if your family could help your other brother (if they wanted) - its a question of fact - are they helping and who is he dependant upon? What evidence did you provide?

keffers wrote:Doesn't need to live in another member state - EEA Regs amended to reflect the judgement in Metock.

Other family members? Sounds like the ECO is applying the Immigration Rules.

Does not matter if your family could help your other brother (if they wanted) - its a question of fact - are they helping and who is he dependant upon? What evidence did you provide?

i did provide proof of sending through western union by using receipts dating back as far back as 2007 and even when i paid for my brother to come and study at a college here

montana wrote:

keffers wrote:Doesn't need to live in another member state - EEA Regs amended to reflect the judgement in Metock.

Other family members? Sounds like the ECO is applying the Immigration Rules.

Does not matter if your family could help your other brother (if they wanted) - its a question of fact - are they helping and who is he dependant upon? What evidence did you provide?

i did provide proof of sending through western union by using receipts dating back as far back as 2007 and even when i paid for my brother to come and study at a college here

I had paid for college for him to get educated here before i learnt of the EU law regarding family members.There in short,i provided the western union reciepts and college papers when i tried to have him come as a student in 2008

Does your dependent brother fall into one of these categories: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/04 ... ficiaries/

You should also read this case which is relevant: http://t.co/oETjLvkB

This issue is simply one of dependency.

The problem here is that an ECO has issued a refusal because a dependant is not living in an EEA state, when operationally UKBA are supposed to have been complying with the effects of Metock even before the EEA Regs were amended.

Secondly, the ECO alludes to the possibility of the dependant being able to get assistance from other family members. The only relevant factor is who is providing the assistance - not who might be able to. The ECO is mixing and matching Imigration Rules and EEA Regs.

If the ECO is going to misapply the law in such a way its hard to imagine what could be presented to them in order for an application to be successful.

With such a level of competence, an appeal may be the only way should a second application result in a similar response.

However, even if the ECO were to apply the law correctly, it is for the applicant to provide adequate evidence of financial dependency.

For example people have failed on appeal because money transfers have been infrequent or have been sent to a third party to pass on to the dependant etc

.

I have made a fresh application and stated where they went wrong by purposefully misquoting the regulation.
Thanx for the information and will update you on the outcome of application .
But it's just funny still how mst embassy staff don't know about the Family PErmit

Let us know how it goes. To be fair, yours is the most complicated kind of the simple applications, but still the staff should be well trained.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Let us know how it goes.
i NEVER THOUGHT I WILL BE WRITING THIS ABOUT THE UKBA DESPITE A DENIAL To be fair, yours is the most complicated kind of the simple applications, but still the staff should be well trained.

After the Reapplication for the family permit.They UKBA truelly applied the correct law and denied it on the basis that the is not enough evidence of dependancy to grant the visa .We did supply some western union transcripts but they said the the money does not reach the required threshold and ...
To be fair the evidence was not enough but they are dependant on me.
i SENT MONEY THRU TO THEM THROW FRIENDS TRAVELLING AND WHEN I SEND SOMETIMES WITH WESTERN UNION.
How can i prove they mainly dependant on me !!!!!AND HOW CAN I APPEAL AND NO WHAT GROUNDS CAN I WIN

So what was the threshold? How did the ECO arrive at that figure?

Over what period did you state you had been sending money and on how many occassions did you have documentary proof (ie Western Union slips)

Were the slips from a time before the first application?

Dependency means more than simply sending money - it has to be enough to meet a dependants essential needs.

Sending a bit here and there won't be sufficient - do your remittances cover the enough to enable the lowest standard of living?

Would someone please help me wiht a strong way of representing my case for my brother who was denied a eea family permit just for one reason which was that the amounts i sent to him in the past 5 years where not enough to determine dependancy.I have since appealed because i have sent money more than is shown /or was submitted to the them.i even paid twice for him to come to college here before and was denied a student visa twice and i have all those college fees i paid for.i have even sent cars which i sent and other valuable goods to be sold in order for them to attain essential needs.

Would any one whose been in such a position tell me what strong case i can argue in order to win this appeal as its a Oral hearing.
Please give me reasonable points i can use to argue the decision and if you have an suggestions.would pictures of how and where he is living be of any help when trying to convince the panel of judges and other pipo looking at the case????

Have you got someone representing you?

Is there any authority in your hope country that can attest that you are supporting him. Is the house he lives in paid for by you?

Can the School attest that the school fee was paid for by you?

Are you able to demonstrate that without the support you provide him, he will be unable to provide for his essential needs.

Think essential needs - food, bills, clothing, housing.

You need at least to be able to relate the amount of money you sent, to the actual cost of the above.

Do you have proof of the car and other valuables being sent and say import tax being paid? Does he have proof of selling these high value items?

That you paid for colleg fees here is likely to be irrelevant as you need to demonstrate his dependency outside the UK.

Obie wrote:Have you got someone representing you?

Is there any authority in your hope country that can attest that you are supporting him. Is the house he lives in paid for by you?

Can the School attest that the school fee was paid for by you?

Are you able to demonstrate that without the support you provide him, he will be unable to provide for his essential needs.

@Obie, i tried finding a solicitor through Legal AId but they said unfortunately legal Aid is no longer covered for Legal Aid.
So i thought maybe i go and try to find a solicitor who will represent me just for the Oral hearing itself.Do tou think it s a good idea for a professional Lawyer to argue my case .

Which authority is responsible for attesting that the family member is dependant on me.Do you think a social worker would be ideal and hat sort of information do they need to attest that the family member depends on me .
The college papers of offer do state the name paying the college fee and who am paying for.

Whats the best way to demonstrate that without my help he cant have the essentail needs. please clarify or advice or even give examples

Come on Charlie, get your thinking cap on.

a) Essential needs - Bills - rent, gas, electricity, food etc

b) Income - Bank statements, proof of unemployment, low paid job etc

c) Proof that you sent money, cars valuables

Proof that valuables, cars were sold.

In order to pay (a) the amount sent in (c) is needed even if there is some money coming from (b).

I have just paid the oral hearing fee for the appeal regarding brothers family permit.
I have contated lawyers who have advised me that EEA applications dont have excess to legal Aid.So i have just finished gathering evdience and i wanted to find out if you would advice me to go with a trained solicitor and pay him to just represent me for the Oral hearing or is it still ok for me the sponsor to go for the hearing alone!!!

It is entirely up to you how you feel, and how conversant you are with the rule, and whether you can explain them eloquently.

The EEA regulation has been amended and the requirement to have lived in the same state as the Union Citizen Removed.

Where will the hearing be taking place. Some of these tribunals seems clueless aboutv EEA rules and some seem very knowledgeable.

From experience, i noticed that in London for example, most Judges at Taylor house seems to know more about EU law, than most judges at Hatton Cross or Sutton for example.

In those circunstances,you will require more knowledge.

Am not entirely sure but i think the hearing might be in south wales!!
Am not very conversant with the law and do you have an idea of a certain few just to be represented by someone of someone with EEA expertees to represent me for the day.
Kind regards,
Charles

Am not entirely sure but i think the hearing might be in south wales!!
Am not very conversant with the law.
Do you have an idea of how much a EEA lawyer would charge for oral hearing for that day.
Kind regards,
Charles

Iam reconsidering to reapplying again for my depedents brothers Family permit but last time it was refused on the basis that i did not provide enough evidence for support that he is wholly dependent on me.I have now built a consistent flow /consistent evidence of financial support sent to my brother.I would like to know the period the period they take into consideration for how long a dependent has been on a EU family.Is there any minimum time limits!!!!!!!!!!

After apne days appealing .The tribunal sent me letter saying they will write to me after the 10th of april to let me know the date of apppeal.
Three weeks before the 10th i sent them all the paper work to support my appeal.
Nine days after the 10th without receiving a letter from the tribunal.I decided to call them and one of the advisors said they have nit yet heaqrd from the Respondant since January.
I s it in light of the new documkents i sent them to support my appeal that they are now analysizing it so they have better defenses or do i have a chance of winning since the Respondant hasnot yet responded!!