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Hello guys,
My family Permit got refused.
I am married to my Bulgarian husband for 7 years, therefore on this ground I have a permanent residence permit in Bulgaria, and I thought that this fact already proves that my marriage is genuine, as I passed through a long immigration process and checks for genuine marriage here, in Bulgaria, with police coming to check on me, interviews etc.

However today I got a refusal letter stating that I didn't provide proof that my marriage is genuine, subsisting and affectionate, so on, that they suspect that my marriage is one of convenience in order to enter the UK(...I understand all kind of cases they saw but did they really see a couple married for 7 years before they try first time to entry the UK.....I'm so confused...I didn't see anywhere on the site gov.uk written something like no matter how many years you are together, we still want you to send us proof of a genuine marriage.

Another thing is that if something is missing in docs or something is unclear to them they could call or write requesting for additional info/docs but its of course easier to refuse right away putting people through humiliating processes of appealing and keeping married couples separated by this for a very long time....

My husband now works in the UK, but he is still in his 3 months of initial residence period.

ECO didn't like that I didn't provide him or her with the evidence of genuine marriage-living together, photos, other proof. I really didn't see this coming as I thought I would need to give such possible proof if I'm married for less than 2 years or so...Just to compare- I got few years ago an Italian visa and my marriage certificate was enough for them, I didn't submit any photos or something else...

I read in internet that an appeal procedure can take more than 6-8 months and doesn't guarantee anything and I just not going to want anymore to go to the UK if I have to stay separated with my husband for such a long period of time, and e will also want to resign his job there and to come back to Bulgaria((...

Its written that I can appeal within 28 days after I got the refusal letter. However instead of that I would like to reapply again to the visa center. If I enclose all the proof they want-purchase contract of an apartment together with my husband in Bulgaria, we have hundreds of photos together for 7 years, so on- can they change their decision without me applying for an appeal. In other words, do they check did I apply for an appeal when they get a second application from the same person after the refusal been made by them?
Can I apply again right after I have been refused?

If yes, do I have to write in a new application that I have been refused and attach my refusal letter? Or just to make a new application without any explanations with additional documents proving that my marriage s genuine?

How strange is that EU law allowing people with a residence permit of a family member to go to the UK without any visa - like as if this words on a card prove the genuine marriage of a couple (even if they just got married) , and to those who got a permanent card in the home country of their EEA national-visa to the UK can be easily refused...

Would be grateful for any advices. I just need any kind of hope that if I give them the proof they want, I can get a visa after my second application without going through the long appeal process.
Thanks.

BritishAccent wrote:Hello guys,
My family Permit got refused.
I am married to my Bulgarian husband for 7 years, therefore on this ground I have a permanent residence permit in Bulgaria, and I thought that this fact already proves that my marriage is genuine, as I passed through a long immigration process and checks for genuine marriage here, in Bulgaria, with police coming to check on me, interviews etc.

However today I got a refusal letter stating that I didn't provide proof that my marriage is genuine, subsisting and affectionate, so on, that they suspect that my marriage is one of convenience in order to enter the UK(...I understand all kind of cases they saw but did they really see a couple married for 7 years before they try first time to entry the UK.....I'm so confused...I didn't see anywhere on the site gov.uk written something like no matter how many years you are together, we still want you to send us proof of a genuine marriage.

Did the ECO give any other reasons for the refusal? You were worried earlier that what you wrote in the application would not be true when it was read.

From what you have written, the ECO appears to be wrong in law. To be genuine and subsisting, a marriage does not need to be affectionate. (Sad, but true.) More to the point, the marriage does not need to be subsisting, though there are plans to overrule this court ruling when the UK government reports that the people of the UK have voted to remain in the UK. I also believe that, in law, he needs to argue that your marriage was a marriage of convenience for you to move to Bulgaria. A marriage that is not a marriage of convenience at the beginning does not, in current EU law, become a marriage of convenience 7 years later.

What reasons did the ECO give for claiming that the marriage is a marriage of convenience? He is legally obliged to give you an opportunity to dispel his suspicions. From what you write, he has not done this.

I hope someone who knows procedure better than you can advise on what to do, but I believe the Entry Clearance Manager (ECM) should have reviewed the challenge, and that you may be able to point out the apparent errors. However, some posts make consistent legal errors, and it can be very difficult to correct them.

I believe your tactics should be:

1) Informally challenge the ECM on the decision.
2) Appeal unless the previous action works a week before the deadline.
3) Resubmit your application. You may now be able to apply on the basis that your husband is now exercising his treaty rights, though you also have the right to join him before he has been in the UK for 3 months. Include evidence that your marriage is subsisting.

Other thoughts are:

4) Consider the overland route accompanying your husband, as was suggested in an earlier thread.
5) You are entitled to apply directly to the British Consulate. This may be quicker than going through VAC.

However, better advice may be provided by later posters.

BritishAccent wrote:I read in internet that an appeal procedure can take more than 6-8 months and doesn't guarantee anything and I just not going to want anymore to go to the UK if I have to stay separated with my husband for such a long period of time, and e will also want to resign his job there and to come back to Bulgaria((...

Then that is a victory for the policy aim of reducing immigration!

BritishAccent wrote:Its written that I can appeal within 28 days after I got the refusal letter. However instead of that I would like to reapply again to the visa center. If I enclose all the proof they want-purchase contract of an apartment together with my husband in Bulgaria, we have hundreds of photos together for 7 years, so on- can they change their decision without me applying for an appeal. In other words, do they check did I apply for an appeal when they get a second application from the same person after the refusal been made by them?
Can I apply again right after I have been refused?

If yes, do I have to write in a new application that I have been refused and attach my refusal letter? Or just to make a new application without any explanations with additional documents proving that my marriage s genuine?

You can apply again. It would be a good idea to explain what is different in your application. For example:
1) Your original plan was to travel with your husband before he started work.
2) Your husband is now exercising his treaty rights. (I may be wrong about making this point. Let us see further advice.) You will therefore be travelling on your own to join him in the UK. If he intends to meet you at the airport, it may be worth saying so. If he doesn't, don't. I can imagine your FP being unofficially made conditional on his meeting you at the airport. Treaty rights are totally irrelevant if your husband will be travelling with you to the UK - you two will then have the right of unconditional initial three month stay.
3) Your understanding is that the ECO should have asked you for evidence that your marriage was not a marriage of convenience. However, for some reason, you did not receive such a request. You are now supplying such evidence.

BritishAccent wrote:How strange is that EU law allowing people with a residence permit of a family member to go to the UK without any visa - like as if this words on a card prove the genuine marriage of a couple (even if they just got married) , and to those who got a permanent card in the home country of their EEA national-visa to the UK can be easily refused...

I can well imagine a belief that Bulgarian Immigration is no better than British Immigration at detecting marriages of convenience, and I suspect British Immigration fear they are not very good at it. They therefore do not trust the Bulgarian decision, and assess you again. From what you write, Bulgarian Immigration suspected your marriage. To the grounds for suspicion, one can now add 7 years without children.

I will also add that the British government does not like this EU law. They wanted to do their own checks, and were only stopped by a judgement from the European Court, supplied for the case of Sean McCarthy.

Not having a child after 7 years of marriage does not raise suspicion or should not raise suspicion that a marriage is convenience .

OP I believe you can appeal and reapply.

There is no requirement in law for an applicant to provide evidence that their marriage is not one of convenience.

Richard W, thank you for your message with such detailed answers.

Did the ECO give any other reasons for the refusal? You were worried earlier that what you wrote in the application would not be true when it was read.

From what you have written, the ECO appears to be wrong in law. To be genuine and subsisting, a marriage does not need to be affectionate. (Sad, but true.) More to the point, the marriage does not need to be subsisting, though there are plans to overrule this court ruling when the UK government reports that the people of the UK have voted to remain in the UK. I also believe that, in law, he needs to argue that your marriage was a marriage of convenience for you to move to Bulgaria. A marriage that is not a marriage of convenience at the beginning does not, in current EU law, become a marriage of convenience 7 years later.

The funny part of all this is that I was afraid that something about my husband arrival date to the UK can be a problem, as I stated in all my emotional messages before, and the actual problem came from the direction I did not expect at all.
My first reaction was a big shock, then a thought that 23 June is approaching and this fact could make ECO's more suspicious to all non-EEA applicants.

No, there was no any other reasons for a refusal, as it was explained in my application additional info field and in my husband's support letter his arrival to the UK and that by EU law he has the 3 months of initial residence in the UK (with the articles of law that cover that right, which as I think now maybe I should not write), therefore no work and accommodation info is provided in the application.

In the refusal letter is written that I have provided only a marriage certificate as the evidence of my relationship, that I have not provided any photos showing me and my husband together before or after I got married him.

The other exact words are :

"It is reasonable to expect that in a genuine subsisting, suportive and affectionate relationship, that there would be significant evidence of regular contact, signs of companionship, emotional support, affection and an abiding interest in each other's welfare and well-being. Given the lack of supporting evidence of your relationship, I am not satisfied that you have genuinely formed a genuine and durable relationship with outward signs of affection and companionship. You have also not demonstrated that there is any substance to the marriage and this gives rise to suspicions that your marriage is one of convenience to facilitate your entry to the UK. I am therefore not satisfied that your relationship with your sponsor is genuinely subsisting.
I therefore refuse your EEA Family Permit application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of regulation 12 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006."

Noone contacted me to ask for any supporting documents to break their suspicions.

What reasons did the ECO give for claiming that the marriage is a marriage of convenience? He is legally obliged to give you an opportunity to dispel his suspicions. From what you write, he has not done this.

I hope someone who knows procedure better than you can advise on what to do, but I believe the Entry Clearance Manager (ECM) should have reviewed the challenge, and that you may be able to point out the apparent errors. However, some posts make consistent legal errors, and it can be very difficult to correct them.

I believe your tactics should be:

1) Informally challenge the ECM on the decision.
2) Appeal unless the previous action works a week before the deadline.
3) Resubmit your application. You may now be able to apply on the basis that your husband is now exercising his treaty rights, though you also have the right to join him before he has been in the UK for 3 months. Include evidence that your marriage is subsisting.

I decided first to reapply as if I dont do it now, the next available appointment date will be very far from now, as the visa center in Bulgaria works 1 or 2 times a month depending on how busy is a season, so I will apply again with additional documents for our own apartment that we bought on our names in Bulgaria, our photos , email logs so on. And if I will get a refusal again, then I just dont see sense of reapplying, only appeal.

Other thoughts are:

4) Consider the overland route accompanying your husband, as was suggested in an earlier thread.

I can't risk doing this as I read in internet forums they have all visa refusals in the system at the border and when they see a refusal on the grounds of a marriage not proven to be genuine, then I have almost zero chance to enter the UK and get a residence card there.

5) You are entitled to apply directly to the British Consulate. This may be quicker than going through VA

C.

I really do not know how to apply directly to the British Consulate in Poland, there is a lack of official explanation even on how to reapply at all. As I understood that they will not take my documents unless I made an appointment on the VAC site, I believe I saw this when I was submitting my first application, if I knew some faster route-I would not wait whole month just to go for an appointment. If someone know how legally to submit FP application without using VAC, please share.

However, better advice may be provided by later posters.

BritishAccent wrote:I read in internet that an appeal procedure can take more than 6-8 months and doesn't guarantee anything and I just not going to want anymore to go to the UK if I have to stay separated with my husband for such a long period of time, and e will also want to resign his job there and to come back to Bulgaria((...

Then that is a victory for the policy aim of reducing immigration!

You are right, of course, its a desperation and emotions from my side...

BritishAccent wrote:Its written that I can appeal within 28 days after I got the refusal letter. However instead of that I would like to reapply again to the visa center. If I enclose all the proof they want-purchase contract of an apartment together with my husband in Bulgaria, we have hundreds of photos together for 7 years, so on- can they change their decision without me applying for an appeal. In other words, do they check did I apply for an appeal when they get a second application from the same person after the refusal been made by them?
Can I apply again right after I have been refused?

If yes, do I have to write in a new application that I have been refused and attach my refusal letter? Or just to make a new application without any explanations with additional documents proving that my marriage s genuine?

You can apply again. It would be a good idea to explain what is different in your application. For example:
1) Your original plan was to travel with your husband before he started work.
2) Your husband is now exercising his treaty rights. (I may be wrong about making this point. Let us see further advice.) You will therefore be travelling on your own to join him in the UK. If he intends to meet you at the airport, it may be worth saying so. If he doesn't, don't. I can imagine your FP being unofficially made conditional on his meeting you at the airport. Treaty rights are totally irrelevant if your husband will be travelling with you to the UK - you two will then have the right of unconditional initial three month stay.
3) Your understanding is that the ECO should have asked you for evidence that your marriage was not a marriage of convenience. However, for some reason, you did not receive such a request. You are now supplying such evidence.

Yes, even though my husbands still has his 3 months of the initial residence he started his work already there, has an accommodation proof but do I have to provide any proof of this?
I don't have to do it by the law but in the light of my refusal I am not sure that I believe in law any more...

BritishAccent wrote:How strange is that EU law allowing people with a residence permit of a family member to go to the UK without any visa - like as if this words on a card prove the genuine marriage of a couple (even if they just got married) , and to those who got a permanent card in the home country of their EEA national-visa to the UK can be easily refused...

I can well imagine a belief that Bulgarian Immigration is no better than British Immigration at detecting marriages of convenience, and I suspect British Immigration fear they are not very good at it. They therefore do not trust the Bulgarian decision, and assess you again. From what you write, Bulgarian Immigration suspected your marriage. To the grounds for suspicion, one can now add 7 years without children.

No, Bulgarian Immigration did not have suspicions on our marriage and issued me a permanent residence card even though after 5 years we did not have kids together.
I am not sure even how the absence of children is relevant to my family permit? There are so many reasons in the modern world why a couple do not have kids, not all reasons are pleasant to talk about them and therefore they should be a private matter of a couple, in my opinion.

I will also add that the British government does not like this EU law. They wanted to do their own checks, and were only stopped by a judgement from the European Court, supplied for the case of Sean McCarthy.

I am confused and frustrated also by the fact that I do not know is there is an actual law out there that can protect a married couple to prove twice the same legal matter in 2 different EU countries.

Thanks again, Richard W.

Obie wrote:Not having a child after 7 years of marriage does not raise suspicion or should not raise suspicion that a marriage is convenience .

OP I believe you can appeal and reapply.

There is no requirement in law for an applicant to provide evidence that their marriage is not one of convenience.

Thank you Obie. I have not seen an official guidance that it became an obligation to all couples, no matter how many years they are together, to provide such evidence, however who knows what will happen after 23 June...
What bothers me now, that I had been to many countries, including Shengen countries and the USA that now this refusal in a visa will be in my records...
If someone knows, if they give a visa after it has been refused, do they clear this record from the system or when I will apply for some other visas I would have to write that I had a refusal in a visa?
Thanks.

BritishAccent wrote:In the refusal letter is written that I have provided only a marriage certificate as the evidence of my relationship, that I have not provided any photos showing me and my husband together before or after I got married him.

At least you know that photographs are desired. The post at Bangkok appears to be discouraging them in non-EEA applications. (I haven't heard recently of any problems with EEA applications there.)

BritishAccent wrote:The other exact words are :

"It is reasonable to expect that in a genuine subsisting, suportive and affectionate relationship, that there would be significant evidence of regular contact, signs of companionship, emotional support, affection and an abiding interest in each other's welfare and well-being. Given the lack of supporting evidence of your relationship, I am not satisfied that you have genuinely formed a genuine and durable relationship with outward signs of affection and companionship. You have also not demonstrated that there is any substance to the marriage and this gives rise to suspicions that your marriage is one of convenience to facilitate your entry to the UK. I am therefore not satisfied that your relationship with your sponsor is genuinely subsisting.
I therefore refuse your EEA Family Permit application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of regulation 12 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006."

There's a famous judgement Papajorgji (EEA spouse - marriage of convenience) that states that this line of reasoning is completely wrong. Unfortunately, if you can't work on the ECM somehow, that sort of argument is only good for the appeal. There have been several ECOs who have made this error.

BritishAccent wrote:Noone contacted me to ask for any supporting documents to break their suspicions.

OK, explain that you are submitting the category of evidence that the ECO felt was missing. It is quite possible, perhaps even likely, that your next application will be assigned to the same ECO.

BritishAccent wrote:

Richard W wrote: 1) Informally challenge the ECM on the decision.
2) Appeal unless the previous action works a week before the deadline.
3) Resubmit your application. You may now be able to apply on the basis that your husband is now exercising his treaty rights, though you also have the right to join him before he has been in the UK for 3 months. Include evidence that your marriage is subsisting.

I decided first to reapply as if I dont do it now, the next available appointment date will be very far from now, as the visa center in Bulgaria works 1 or 2 times a month depending on how busy is a season, so I will apply again with additional documents for our own apartment that we bought on our names in Bulgaria, our photos , email logs so on. And if I will get a refusal again, then I just dont see sense of reapplying, only appeal.

The first decision is clearly wrong. I think you shouldn't wait for a decision on the second application before appealing. The tale in Refusals for EEA Family Permit about a part-Goan family who struggled with ECOs misinterpreting the law shows that appeals, applications and correspondence can proceed in parallel.

Richard W wrote: There's a famous judgement Papajorgji (EEA spouse - marriage of convenience) that states that this line of reasoning is completely wrong. Unfortunately, if you can't work on the ECM somehow, that sort of argument is only good for the appeal. There have been several ECOs who have made this error.

Further to the Papajorgji case, it is explicitly referred to in the internal Home Office guidance on case law, currently at page 54. Point 27 of the judgement says you should have been explicitly invited to supply evidence to dispel the suspicion that your marriage is one of convenience:

First, there is no burden on the claimant in an application for a family permit to establish that she was not party to a marriage of convenience unless the circumstances known to the decision maker give reasonable ground for suspecting that this was the case. Absent such a basis for suspicion the application should be granted without more on production of the documents set out in Article 10 of the Directive. Where there is such suspicion the matter requires further investigation and the claimant should be invited to respond to the basis of suspicion by producing evidential material to dispel it.

Richard W wrote:

BritishAccent wrote:In the refusal letter is written that I have provided only a marriage certificate as the evidence of my relationship, that I have not provided any photos showing me and my husband together before or after I got married him.

At least you know that photographs are desired. The post at Bangkok appears to be discouraging them in non-EEA applications. (I haven't heard recently of any problems with EEA applications there.)


Yes, now I know that I need photos and I have many of them to proof our genuine feelings with my husband.

BritishAccent wrote:The other exact words are :

"It is reasonable to expect that in a genuine subsisting, supportive and affectionate relationship, that there would be significant evidence of regular contact, signs of companionship, emotional support, affection and an abiding interest in each other's welfare and well-being. Given the lack of supporting evidence of your relationship, I am not satisfied that you have genuinely formed a genuine and durable relationship with outward signs of affection and companionship. You have also not demonstrated that there is any substance to the marriage and this gives rise to suspicions that your marriage is one of convenience to facilitate your entry to the UK. I am therefore not satisfied that your relationship with your sponsor is genuinely subsisting.
I therefore refuse your EEA Family Permit application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of regulation 12 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006."

There's a famous judgement Papajorgji (EEA spouse - marriage of convenience) that states that this line of reasoning is completely wrong. Unfortunately, if you can't work on the ECM somehow, that sort of argument is only good for the appeal. There have been several ECOs who have made this error.

Thank you for giving me the reference for this judgement, with it I have a stronger case to appeal.
The only thing that bothers me about an appellation that in the example of Papajorgji case the appellation decision took 18 months for the applicant to finally get a visa.


All cases are different, even though Papajorgji had used links to some other court judgements nevertheless their case took one year and a half.
I would really rather just give them what proof they want to see than just trying to prove that the decision of the ECO was wrong. My target is not only justice, no matter how long it can take, but to get a family permit as soon as I can so that I join my husband in the UK.

BritishAccent wrote: Noone contacted me to ask for any supporting documents to break their suspicions.

OK, explain that you are submitting the category of evidence that the ECO felt was missing. It is quite possible, perhaps even likely, that your next application will be assigned to the same ECO.


Yes, I will submit a new application with the evidence that should break their suspicions.
I will submit the following evidence:

-Photos and emails, facebook logs, skype logs
-An apartment purchase contract on our names
-I want to submit the certificates and receipts of a fine jewelry pieces like a diamond ring or a tanzanite necklace with the name of my husband as a buyer at the time of our marriage (this I would like to do to prove an ECO the "affectionate signs in our marriage")
-A letter of attorney (or a proxy) made 2 years ago stating that my husbands trusts me to have a full access to his bank accounts (to withdraw or put money there) and to do some other financial actions on behalf of his name, and is has been issued for an indefinite period of time.
-Even thought my husband still uses his 3 months of initial residence I could submit the copy of the rent agreement that he made in London.
I am not sure that I should provide them at this stage with the copy of his work contract (till 3 months period is over), as I saw cases of people doing so and somehow ECO s were pretending or did not understand that the EEA national is still in his initial residence in the UK ...

-I will provide other papers proving that we have been living or travelling together at the years of our marriage
( plus the photos of us together in Mexico the year we met, etc)

Maybe an ECO thought that if I have visas in my passport showing that I was away from Bulgaria for periods of time, that could raise his suspicion that I was not living with my husband.
I thought that if we did not raise such a suspicion about our genuine marriage to Bulgarian authorities and I got a permanent residence card as the result of it, that I would not need to worry about proving ourselves as a genuine couple in the UK...
Now I know that is better to provide all kind of evidence of that even if it may not be officially requested.

However I hope it would be enough if I enclose only copies of such documents because UKVI is known for the habit to keep many valuable documents of applicants.

BritishAccent wrote:

Richard W wrote: 1) Informally challenge the ECM on the decision.
2) Appeal unless the previous action works a week before the deadline.
3) Resubmit your application. You may now be able to apply on the basis that your husband is now exercising his treaty rights, though you also have the right to join him before he has been in the UK for 3 months. Include evidence that your marriage is subsisting.

I will resubmit my application and wait if there will be a decision made the week before the appellation deadline.

I decided first to reapply as if I dont do it now, the next available appointment date will be very far from now, as the visa center in Bulgaria works 1 or 2 times a month depending on how busy is a season, so I will apply again with additional documents for our own apartment that we bought on our names in Bulgaria, our photos , email logs so on. And if I will get a refusal again, then I just dont see sense of reapplying, only appeal.

The first decision is clearly wrong. I think you shouldn't wait for a decision on the second application before appealing. The tale in Refusals for EEA Family Permit about a part-Goan family who struggled with ECOs misinterpreting the law shows that appeals, applications and correspondence can proceed in parallel.

I will consider submitting a fresh application and to appeal at the same time or submit a new application and to wait till the week before the deadline for an appellation to see if they give me a visa.

Richard W, you are incredibly helpful with all your advices, and I really appreciate it!

When submitting a new application is it better to keep all the details from previous one or I could make some changes?
For example, for the question " How long do you intend to stay in the UK?" I answered "Indefinite", maybe it is better to put N/A.
For the financial information on how much money I spend on expenses per month, how much I will spend for the trip, accommodation and living in the UK and so on-I put some rough approximate numbers or in some of them N/A, as I did not see a clear official guidance on gov.uk or anywhere else on what sections has to be filled only by non-EEA family members of an EEA national or when this national is still in the initial residence period.

I saw the old paper form for a Family Permit where there are some explanations on which sections to fill but in the new online application there are absolutely none, and I could only guess if they can refuse me a visa if I leave some of these questions with N/A.

In my opinion, the difficulty which takes to find any official guidance on how to fill the online application and what sections could be left out or are obligatory for EEA family permits, creates easy grounds for refusals in such visas.
If anyone has any link to such a document, share please.
Thanks.

I apologise, was in a rush and I would like to correct mistakes in my previous message:


For the financial information on how much money I spend on expenses per month, how much I will spend for the trip, accommodation and living in the UK and so on-I put approximate numbers or in some of them N/A, as I did not see a clear official guidance on gov.uk on which sections have to be filled in an online application by non-EEA DIRECT family members (including spouses) of an EEA national and which are for the rest of family members of an EEA national, also I did not find any guidance which sections to fill in or leave out in case when an EEA national is still in the initial residence period.

In my opinion, the difficulty which takes to find any official guidance on how to fill the online application and what sections could be left out or are obligatory for EEA DIRECT family members (incl.spouses), creates easy grounds for refusals in such visas.
If anyone has any link to such a guidance, share please.

Hi everyone,

I've got my family permit after I applied the second time with more documents!
I want to thank all people of this forum who shared with me their knowledge and gave me useful advices, in particular a big 'thank you' goes to Richard W and moderators!
It has been a relief to see finally the visa in my passport...

I wonder is it necessary to prove a genuine marriage again when applying for a residence card in the UK or in Home Office they would assume that if a family member of an EEA national got a family permit he/she already proved to an ECO in an embassy that the marriage is not one of convenience?..
Otherwise together with the printed application for a residence card it would take probably more than 2 kg of papers.

What is the best way to submit copies of all originals with an application so that they return those originals? It is frustrating for me-I did the third duplicate of a marriage certificate with an apostille and a translation to apply for a residence card plus translations of other supporting documents.
With my second application for a family permit I enclosed a bunch of copies of originals, separated from other documents with a paper clip but they again took all my documents and returned just photos and my passport. I have not seen any official requirements how to submit copies of documents. Is there is a special way of providing them?

Congratulations. You can really work on your British accent now.

Pro tip: bring an umbrella (<<< English humour)

Yes, every transaction with HO requires good quality supporting evidence.
After all why give them the Spam of 'wriggle room' (?).

If you apply for a RC in due course, you will have to prove you are married (but I don't think the chat history, photos etc etc are required).

noajthan wrote:Congratulations. You can really work on your British accent now.

Pro tip: bring an umbrella (<<< English humour)

Yes, every transaction with HO requires good quality supporting evidence.
After all why give them the Spam of 'wriggle room' (?).

If you apply for a RC in due course, you will have to prove you are married (but I don't think the chat history, photos etc etc are required).

Thanks for your advices, noajthan!

BritishAccent wrote:Hi everyone,

I've got my family permit after I applied the second time with more documents!
I want to thank all people of this forum who shared with me their knowledge and gave me useful advices, in particular a big 'thank you' goes to Richard W and moderators!
It has been a relief to see finally the visa in my passport...

I wonder is it necessary to prove a genuine marriage again when applying for a residence card in the UK or in Home Office they would assume that if a family member of an EEA national got a family permit he/she already proved to an ECO in an embassy that the marriage is not one of convenience?..
Otherwise together with the printed application for a residence card it would take probably more than 2 kg of papers.

What is the best way to submit copies of all originals with an application so that they return those originals? It is frustrating for me-I did the third duplicate of a marriage certificate with an apostille and a translation to apply for a residence card plus translations of other supporting documents.
With my second application for a family permit I enclosed a bunch of copies of originals, separated from other documents with a paper clip but they again took all my documents and returned just photos and my passport. I have not seen any official requirements how to submit copies of documents. Is there is a special way of providing them?

Did they send you any email that says that your EEA family permit was accepted or just an email that says that the decision was made and you will get back your documents in few days?