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Hi all,

I have been reading existing posts for a couple of hours now, but I am still confused about the process - I hope someone can help me.

I have Greek citizenship and I have been living in the UK since 2000, finishing a university degree and a PhD. I went on full-time employment immediately after finishing my PhD in 2007 and have been working full-time since.
My wife (married in 2004) is also a Greek citizen and has been living in the UK since 2003. She has completed two masters degrees but has not had any employment in the UK, nor applied for any benefits at any point. Having seen that health insurance plays a role here, she is covered under my private health insurance provided by my employer, and she also has an individual health insurance in Greece that covers her in EU, for over 15 years now, so she should be covered OK with those.
My daughter was born in June 2013 in Greece and has been living in the UK since October 2013, and is also covered under my private health insurance.

We want to apply for BC and I understand we need to have obtain PR and hold it for at least 12 months before applying for BC.

How do we go about applying for PR? Joint application, including our daughter? Or does she have to wait for me to obtain PR or BC before she can apply for PR as Family Member? And if we apply separately, how do we apply for our daughter?

I suspect answers can be found by combining information in existing posts, but I haven't managed to see a clear route forward.

Can someone help please?

Many thanks in advance.

You can apply for PR together with your wife listing her as your dependent so that she can rely on your activities in the UK. You can then apply for citizenship once you have held PR status (not the DCPR) for 1 year.
To be able to apply for BC immediately after getting your DCPR, use a qualifying period for your PR application which finished at least a year ago (e.g. 2007-2012)
I believe your daughter can only apply for PR as your dependent once she has completed 5 years residence in the UK (so Oct 2018 at the earliest). Once your daughter has PR, you can register her as a BC using form MN1 when one parent has PR and at least one of them applies for citizenship.

Be careful here.
If EEA parents naturalise then they can no longer sponsor an EEA family member (daughter).

This is because UK doesn't recognise such dual nationals as EEA citizens anymore (for migration purposes);
this is even before Brexit.

One parent should consider holding off naturalising until daughter has acquired PR status. Obviously timing this may prove tricky.
Another factor to be aware of is that child's registration is at Home Secretary's discretion.

But if they became British before the daughter had PR, wouldn't the child be able to acquire PR as self-sufficient as they say that they all have private health insurance?

LilyLalilu wrote:But if they became British before the daughter had PR, wouldn't the child be able to acquire PR as self-sufficient as they say that they all have private health insurance?

Yes, as daughter is a Union citizen that could be an option if the comprehensive insurance covers her too.
(Parents just need to be aware the sponsor option would disappear on their naturalisation).

Daughter, with around two years to go, may be cutting it very fine anyway.
And whether she could use her PR to then register as a citizen (if she has such an ambition) may depend on any transitional arrangements (yet to be put in place).

Thank you both for your responses. I am a bit confused about the 2007-2012 period quoted - could you please explain your thought?

So from what I understand, if we both got PR and immediately applied for DCPR and obtained BC, say, 18 months from now, would my daughter not be allowed to stay in the UK? I am still confused here...

if the above is correct, i.e. there will be an issue with my daughter being unable to live in the UK - are my thoughts below correct?
1. Make a joint application for PR (is that including my daughter, or does she not qualify because she hasn't been in the UK for 5 years?)
2. Once obtained, obtain DCPR just for myself and apply for BC (is this just a document to support the BC application?)
3. Once I obtain BC, my wife then waits for my daughter to complete 5 years in the UK before they apply as family members, on the basis that I have BC status.

or have I understood it wrong?

Thank you both again for your help - much appreciated.

noajthan wrote:

LilyLalilu wrote:But if they became British before the daughter had PR, wouldn't the child be able to acquire PR as self-sufficient as they say that they all have private health insurance?

Yes, as daughter is a Union citizen that could be an option if the comprehensive insurance covers her too.
(Parents just need to be aware the sponsor option would disappear on their naturalisation).

I thought the Chen ruling established that a child cannot exercise treaty rights as a qualified person?

Zouganelis wrote:Thank you both for your responses. I am a bit confused about the 2007-2012 period quoted - could you please explain your thought?

So from what I understand, if we both got PR and immediately applied for DCPR and obtained BC, say, 18 months from now, would my daughter not be allowed to stay in the UK? I am still confused here...

if the above is correct, i.e. there will be an issue with my daughter being unable to live in the UK - are my thoughts below correct?
1. Make a joint application for PR (is that including my daughter, or does she not qualify because she hasn't been in the UK for 5 years?)
2. Once obtained, obtain DCPR just for myself and apply for BC (is this just a document to support the BC application?)
3. Once I obtain BC, my wife then waits for my daughter to complete 5 years in the UK before they apply as family members, on the basis that I have BC status.

or have I understood it wrong?

Thank you both again for your help - much appreciated.

Lily has made a good suggestion. If daughter has CSI she could be classed as a self-sufficient Union citizen in her own right.
She then needs 5 years residence in UK to acquire PR.
That could be made up of her time to date as a direct family member of one of you parents as sponsor;
plus (if you naturalise - so cannot sponsor her anymore), she could carry on as self-sufficient (if she has CSI cover is in place).

Now its getting complicated.
If daughter doesn't acquire PR before UK has left EU, her status is unclear and will depend on any transitional arrangements that may be brought in.
If daughter acquires PR (& then gets PR card) there is still a delay before she can register as a citizen. Again transitional arrangements may come into play.
This is because she will need to have been free of immigration time restrictions for 12 months before registering as a citizen.

1) Joint for parents only; its too early for daughter who does not 5 years in UK yet.

What you are applying for is the DCPR - a 'confirmation of PR' card.
You already have PR status (that is acquired automatically by exercising treaty rights for 5 years).

2) Yes you could so that.

DCPR is really nothing to do with naturalisation except that HO suddenly took it in their heads to make what is an optional EU-related confirmatory document into a mandatory requirement for the privilege of citizenship.

3) If you turn daughter into a self-sufficient person, wife could also naturalise now.

Even if wife waits and naturalises when daughter has clocked up 5 years in UK (in 2 years time), daughter can't register as a citizen simply after those 5 years;
she will have to wait an additional 12 months holding her PR status (& card) before registering as a citizen.

If you're already British, your BC status only permits wife to naturalise immediately on getting her PR card (as she is your spouse).
Daughter does not get that option and so has to wait 12 more months 'free of immigration time restrictions' ie holding PR / settled status.
The danger is both lose their chance to become citizens due to timing of the EU exit strategy.

It may be safer for wife to naturalise earlier.

Petaltop wrote:I thought the Chen ruling established that a child cannot exercise treaty rights as a qualified person?

There's no age llmit on exercising treaty rights (as per my understanding).
And Chen relates to non-EEA parents and derivative rights.
I don't think this is a Chen case. Its just a tricky case.

Ok, so it sounds like the most sensible way forward may be for my wife and I to apply for DCMR now. When you say we already have PR status already, does it mean that we could virtually apply for BC without waiting for another 12 months?
Also, what happens with our daughter if we make a joint application? Would she be allowed to live in the UK, go to school etc?

Many thanks everybody.

Zouganelis wrote:Ok, so it sounds like the most sensible way forward may be for my wife and I to apply for DCMR now. When you say we already have PR status already, does it mean that we could virtually apply for BC without waiting for another 12 months?
Also, what happens with our daughter if we make a joint application? Would she be allowed to live in the UK, go to school etc?

Many thanks everybody.

Yes, that's why the other member suggested pick a likely qualifying period in the past (say 2007-2012) for which you have rock-solid supporting evidence.
Then, once confirmed with DCPR, you can apply to naturalise directly (assuming all the other requirements have been/can be met).

Yes, daughter can stay but you need to get her CSI if not already covered; that and your full financial (emotional) support mean she's a self-sufficient qualified person.
If all goes well she should have acquired PR in 2 years time - just before UK leaves UK.
Then wait 12 months to shoot for registration as a citizen (assuming PR status as 'settled status' is still recognised).

In the meantime you could apply for a residence certificate (RC) for daughter.
Its purely optional but it will confirm her current status.

It may also help if there are any transitional arrangements in the future;
previously some of these transitional arrangements depended on a person having a RC at a certain date.
Use form EEA (FM).

@Zouganelis, there is (only one) similar case in the forum that may be of interest.

A young EEA child was registered as a citizen despite not having PR status.
The mother did have PR and the mother naturalised (successfully) at the same time as (successfully) applying to register their child.
(The child was around 4 years old and had lived in UK for 3 years or so after being born abroad).

Note the child's application was made under section 3(1) of BNA. This is at Home Secretary's kind and bountiful discretion.

Discretion can ofcourse be applied either way.
For example, most child applicants on UK migration route who do not have the equivalent settled status (ILR) are refused under s.3(1) in these circumstances.
So there is no guarantee that this outcome will happen for you. (HO does not like creating precedents).

It could be argued that your joint commitment (as the parents) to life and study/work in UK over the past 10-16 years is in your favour;
it helps to demonstrate that your child's future lies in this country.
When you apply to register child, suggest making a case on that theme in a cogent supporting letter.

I am posting this case for you so you can be aware of all possible scenarios.
See:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 1#p1327410

General HO guidance for minors:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... r_2015.pdf

More detailed guidelines on registration of minors at discretion:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... structions
(health warning: its complex)

Takeaway:
Weigh it up.
You risk the MN1 fee if you apply too early for your child and are refused (but there's no other 'penalty').
In the circumstances you may decide that this approach may be a risk worth taking.

Good luck.