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Hello Members

Am a non EU and i have my EEA2 application on going . My wife want to apply for housing benefit and i have read so far on the forum that it as to be done alone by the qualified person. The problem here is council wouldn't accept my name not been in the applicaion bcos my name is included in on the rent agreement . Please what could be done in this situation should my wife go on and apply for the HB with my name included that is if it will not affect my ongoing application? Or should we just drop the HB application for now?

Thank you waiting for your contribution

The Council will have to take into consideration that you are living in the property and if you have any income, but assuming you don't have children your wife can only be awarded Housing Benefit for a single person, not as a couple.

Casa wrote:The Council will have to take into consideration that you are living in the property and if you have any income, but assuming you don't have children your wife can only be awarded Housing Benefit for a single person, not as a couple.

Thank you Casa. We have a son and as for now i don't have any income. The question is the council dont want to award it a single person but instead as a couple would that affect my on-going EEA2 application

I believe the single person + child allowance is the same as that for a couple. One important point...is your wife working?

Casa wrote:I believe the single person + child allowance is the same as that for a couple. One important point...is your wife working?

So you are saying if we go ahead and apply for the HB as couple it will not affect my application

Petaltop is better placed to advise on this. Stand by for her comments.

Can you confirm whether your wife is employed?

Casa wrote:Petaltop is better placed to advise on this. Stand by for her comments.

Can you confirm whether your wife is employed?

yes she is employed.

shall be looking ahead for Petaltop comment on this

Casa wrote:The Council will have to take into consideration that you are living in the property and if you have any income, but assuming you don't have children your wife can only be awarded Housing Benefit for a single person, not as a couple.

If there aren't any children and the wife is under age 35, then it will just be the shared accommodation rate. She won't get the full amount of LHA shown on your council's website as they will use your joint income to calculate how much she can have of the rate she is allowed. I'm assuming this is a private let and not social housing.

As casa has told you, you are living in the property with your partner and therefore your salary is included in these calculations too, even though your wife is making a claim based on her only. If you aren't allowed benefits, then don't extra for you being there.

Thinking about it, I'm not sure if your name should be on a benefit claim when you might not be allowed to have public funds yet? I'm not sure of your status in the UK under EU treaty rights when you are waiting for a permit.

You might be better asking this on the EEA board as they will know, unless someone from there reads this and answers.

I'll move the thread to the EEA sub-forum to avoid repeating the question.

Casa wrote:I'll move the thread to the EEA sub-forum to avoid repeating the question.

Thank you Petaltop and Casa for your contribution so far

omoowo wrote:

Casa wrote:I believe the single person + child allowance is the same as that for a couple. One important point...is your wife working?

So you are saying if we go ahead and apply for the HB as couple it will not affect my application

Just to reduce confusion, I am assuming that your 'wife' is in indeed your wife. Some people use 'wife' for a live-in partner, and that can cause dangerous confusion on a board like this.

Although directive 2004/38/EC talks about avoiding an 'unreasonable burden' on the 'social assistance' system, this does not apply to workers, and so, by implication, their families. Applying for benefit should not have any effect on your application - nothing in the directive or the EEA Regulations makes provision for such a problem. The only issue I can see is that your wife will be subject to two sets of scrutiny of her employment, to determine whether it is a real and significant enough job to make her a 'worker'. If she's paying national insurance, there should be no problems resulting from applying for HB.

Whether your wife is receiving housing benefit it doesn't really matters , but if I were I would never use the same bank statement showing benefit to apply for your RC or for your PR . People may not agree with me but it is better to be safe .

As long as EUcitizen is working, there will be no negative effect on nonEU family members' application.

toni34 wrote:Whether your wife is receiving housing benefit it doesn't really matters , but if I were I would never use the same bank statement showing benefit to apply for your RC or for your PR . People may not agree with me but it is better to be safe .

The UKVI will be aware of the Housing Benefit whichever bank statement is submitted. Trying to hide benefit payments will only raise more problems, as information is shared between all Government departments and cross-checks are easily carried out.

Richard W wrote:

omoowo wrote:

Casa wrote:I believe the single person + child allowance is the same as that for a couple. One important point...is your wife working?

So you are saying if we go ahead and apply for the HB as couple it will not affect my application

Just to reduce confusion, I am assuming that your 'wife' is in indeed your wife. Some people use 'wife' for a live-in partner, and that can cause dangerous confusion on a board like this.

Although directive 2004/38/EC talks about avoiding an 'unreasonable burden' on the 'social assistance' system, this does not apply to workers, and so, by implication, their families. Applying for benefit should not have any effect on your application - nothing in the directive or the EEA Regulations makes provision for such a problem. The only issue I can see is that your wife will be subject to two sets of scrutiny of her employment, to determine whether it is a real and significant enough job to make her a 'worker'. If she's paying national insurance, there should be no problems resulting from applying for HB.

Yes Richard she my wife not living partner. Thank you for the information about the Directive and EEA Regulations.
This part i dont get : The only issue I can see is that your wife will be subject to two sets of scrutiny of her employment, to determine whether it is a real and significant enough job to make her a 'worker'. If she's paying national insurance, there should be no problems resulting from applying for HB.

She working 32hrs per week

omoowo wrote:This part i dont get : The only issue I can see is that your wife will be subject to two sets of scrutiny of her employment, to determine whether it is a real and significant enough job to make her a 'worker'. If she's paying national insurance, there should be no problems resulting from applying for HB.

There is no clear definition of 'worker', only a number of decisions. It is possible for the DWP and the HO to come to different conclusions, and it is conceivable that they will compare decisions and automatically select the worse one - double jeopardy.

omoowo wrote:She working 32hrs per week

Therefore she's clearly a worker, by the UK's 'impure' MET test.

Casa wrote:

toni34 wrote:Whether your wife is receiving housing benefit it doesn't really matters , but if I were I would never use the same bank statement showing benefit to apply for your RC or for your PR . People may not agree with me but it is better to be safe .

The UKVI will be aware of the Housing Benefit whichever bank statement is submitted. Trying to hide benefit payments will only raise more problems, as information is shared between all Government departments and cross-checks are easily carried out.

He is not obliged to disclose it at all to ukvi , he doesn't need to fill the new eea form where they ask you if you have had benefit , he will be fine any way , I have seen people who had housing benefit ,wtc and child benefit for the full 5 years of their RC and they granted them pr as self sufficient based on the husband work plus csi

toni34 wrote:

Casa wrote:

toni34 wrote:Whether your wife is receiving housing benefit it doesn't really matters , but if I were I would never use the same bank statement showing benefit to apply for your RC or for your PR . People may not agree with me but it is better to be safe .

The UKVI will be aware of the Housing Benefit whichever bank statement is submitted. Trying to hide benefit payments will only raise more problems, as information is shared between all Government departments and cross-checks are easily carried out.

He is not obliged to disclose it at all to ukvi , he doesn't need to fill the new eea form where they ask you if you have had benefit , he will be fine any way , I have seen people who had housing benefit ,wtc and child benefit for the full 5 years of their RC and they granted them pr as self sufficient based on the husband work plus csi

A caseworker may run internal checks regardless of information volunteered by an applicant.
There's more than one way to get a fuller picture and possibly uncover possible deception.

HO may crosscheck and verify against a host of other databanks, datasources and feeds from both national and local government as well as non-government institutions.
Without someone on the inside its hard to plumb the bottom of the depths they will go to.

I agree. I doubt that the Case Worker simply relies on a 'tick box' as confirmation that the information given is correct.

Richard W wrote:

omoowo wrote:She working 32hrs per week

Therefore she's clearly a worker, by the UK's 'impure' MET test.

The MET (for benefit puposes at least) is based on how much they earn, not the hours they work.

When you see that the MET was brought to stop the abuse on the UK's welfare state from EEA citizens, you can see why it has to be salary earned.

The MET stops those EEA citizens who only worked a couple of shifts in a pub on a Sunday, from claiming they are a worker qualified person and then living on UK benefit top-ups. For the self employed, it stops those who didn't really have a business that can support them, or who did as little as possible to get UK benefits, from being a self employed qualified preson.

It will soon be 'earnings' and not 'hours worked', for all those asking for income based benefits. They just brought in the MET to catch the EEA abusers, while they are rolling out the welfare reforms across the country.

Under these new welfare reforms, the earnings they will need to make under their Universal Credit agreement, will be much higher than the MET used on EEA citizens at present.
For those who claim they are self employed and want benefits, the "genuine and effective" won't come into it anymore. Thier claim will be based on what they must earn each week between them and not what they do earn, even if the don't earn much a week. The UK's welfare state will no longer support a failed business.

Petaltop wrote:

Richard W wrote:

omoowo wrote:She working 32hrs per week

Therefore she's clearly a worker, by the UK's 'impure' MET test.

The MET (for benefit puposes at least) is based on how much they earn, not the hours they work.

Yes. I converted hours to pounds assuming minimum minimum wage for an adult other than an apprentice, and found the MET was exceeded.

Petaltop wrote:Under these new welfare reforms, the earnings they will need to make under their Universal Credit agreement, will be much higher than the MET used on EEA citizens at present.

It makes one wonder what will happen to the simple test for the application of the EEA Regulations. Perhaps it will stay tied to the NI threshold, the PET. For many working EEA nationals, there is a simple dichotomy - you're either a qualified person, or an illegal worker! Perhaps the 'reasonable cause to believe' clause (IA 1971 Section 24B(1)(b), by IA 2016 Section 34) will protect those in the grey area.

Therefore she's clearly a worker, by the UK's 'impure' MET test.[/quote]

Does this apply to Irish Citizen ?

omoowo wrote:

Richard W wrote:Therefore she's clearly a worker, by the UK's 'impure' MET test.

Does this apply to Irish Citizen ?

Yes, as far as the EEA Regulations are concerned. The answer might be different for benefit regulations - I haven't studied them.