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Hi all,
I need every one especially experts help in my case, I applied for eea Family permit few days ago and got refusal today. intention was to visit just for few days(2 weeks time), its totally unacceptable refusal ever I seen. Fact are
1- I am non -eea and wife is eea national and we married in the UK after approval of Certificate of approval COA in 2009, I was overstayed when I applied for CoA, later I left UK with my own choice and expenses
2- We have one eea national child
Documents I submitted with application were
1- my passport
2- wife passport
3- baby passport
4- marriage certificate
5- my job letter
6- wife statement letter

ECO refused on following 4 reasons

1- you married in the UK while being illegally however you not provided me any other evidence that you are in genuine relation ship
(all evidences submitted when I applied for CoA and got CoA in 2 weeks time, does it making sense again I have to submit after 4 years of marriage?)

2- you have not provided any evidence that you are living together or intend on traveling to the UK together
(even wife letter clearly say we all go together to the UK for holidays)

3- when I left the UK then I applied EEA FP but refused because wife wasn’t flying with me,(I did not appeal this refusal)ECO considered last application too here and stated I am satisfied that your marriage to the eea national facilitates your long term presence in the member states and achieves your primary goal to get in the UK.

(if there was something like this I should not leave the UK)

4-about sufficient resources:
Even for less then 3 months time i don’t need to show any finances but ECO talking about comprehensive sickness insurance even, as I answered “not relevant to this application” in form
Eco stated that I am not satisfied that EEA national is self sufficient, in absence of satisfactory evidence to show that eea national and family remember will not be reliant on the social assistance in the UK.

( even I submitted my wok letter plus wife bank statement was ready to pay ticket in this trip)

What should I do next?
Thanks in advance for help.

Where is your husband?

we all three(husband, wife and baby ) are living together

And does he intend to accompany you to the UK?

They refused you incorrectly. You can appeal, or reapply with a cover letter explaining why on each of these 4 points the visa officer was wrong. I am sending you a private message.

thanks all of you to reply,
yes he was intending to fly with me.

Appeal and reapply. It is odd that they refused on bases of Marriage of convenience when there is a kid involved. Is the child an EEA national.

thanks for reply,
yes wife and baby both are eea national.
eco refused as much points come in his mind i feeling.
any other helping tips please

I would suggest you appeal as it seems the ECO has made some claims I would not expect him to do.

In your letter, you should address the points raised in the refusal namely:

1- you married in the UK while being illegally however you not provided me any other evidence that you are in genuine relation ship
(all evidences submitted when I applied for CoA and got CoA in 2 weeks time, does it making sense again I have to submit after 4 years of marriage?)

Suspecting marriage of convenience after 4 years of marriage while having a child together is contracting to the HO own guidelines which state:

EUN2.10 What if I suspect a marriage / civil partnership of convenience? wrote:The ECO should not consider the following cases as marriages / civil partnerships of convenience where:

* there is a child of the relationship;
* there is evidence to suggest cohabitation.

2- you have not provided any evidence that you are living together or intend on traveling to the UK together

Clearly this was stated in the letter.

3- when I left the UK then I applied EEA FP but refused because wife wasn’t flying with me,(I did not appeal this refusal)ECO considered last application too here and stated I am satisfied that your marriage to the eea national facilitates your long term presence in the member states and achieves your primary goal to get in the UK.

See 1.

4-about sufficient resources:
Even for less then 3 months time i don’t need to show any finances but ECO talking about comprehensive sickness insurance even, as I answered “not relevant to this application” in form
Eco stated that I am not satisfied that EEA national is self sufficient, in absence of satisfactory evidence to show that eea national and family remember will not be reliant on the social assistance in the UK.

As you rightly said, this is not a requirement. There is initial right of residence for 3 months, which means that an EEA national does not have to be exercising a treaty right immediately on arrival in the UK.

thank you all of you to help,
just 1 more point to clear with some refence

4-about sufficient resources:
Even for less then 3 months time i don’t need to show any finances but ECO talking about comprehensive sickness insurance for an eea national,
as I answered “not relevant to this application” in form
Eco stated that I am not satisfied that EEA national is self sufficient, in absence of satisfactory evidence to show that eea national and family remember will not be reliant on the social assistance in the UK.

is there any guide line for further help?
eco was considering regulation 13 under eea immigration.

Many thanks

I would respond to the refusal quoting a variety of souces:
the directive, the guide, com 313, ECO guidance, the IDI and case law, in particular MRAX.

and state that you expect your EEA/fp to be issued without further delay.

and people think i was crazy when i said no way would i have my hubby apply for an EEA/fp!

it was a lot easier to get his passport stamped at port!

this is ludicrous!

thanks for reply,
i understand others but could you please explain "com 313, , the IDI and case law, in particular MRAX"
Thanks

scorpio1 wrote:1- I am non -eea and wife is eea national and we married in the UK after approval of Certificate of approval COA in 2009, I was overstayed when I applied for CoA, later I left UK with my own choice and expenses
2- We have one eea national child
Documents I submitted with application were
1- my passport
2- wife passport
3- baby passport
4- marriage certificate
5- my job letter not needed
6- wife statement letter
( even I submitted my wok letter plus wife bank statement was ready to pay ticket in this trip) not needed

What you do for work is not relevant. Why submit anything related to that? Also the bank statement is not relevant.
I note that you did not submit the child's birth certificate. I would do that in any subsequent application

scorpio1 wrote:ECO refused on following 4 reasons
[...]
3- when I left the UK then I applied EEA FP but refused because wife wasn’t flying with me,(I did not appeal this refusal)ECO considered last application too here and stated I am satisfied that your marriage to the eea national facilitates your long term presence in the member states and achieves your primary goal to get in the UK.

4-about sufficient resources:
Even for less then 3 months time i don’t need to show any finances but ECO talking about comprehensive sickness insurance even, as I answered “not relevant to this application” in form
Eco stated that I am not satisfied that EEA national is self sufficient, in absence of satisfactory evidence to show that eea national and family remember will not be reliant on the social assistance in the UK.

What were the exact words, from the letter that the ECO used for (3) and (4). You have mostly paraphrased here.


How long have you and your family been living together outside the UK?
How old is the baby?

Thanks for reply,

I note that you did not submit the child's birth certificate.

everthing is written on passport and there is no any argu on baby though

exact words, from the letter that the ECO used for (3) and (4)

wordings are:
you made eea fp application 6 monhts after leaving the UK ref number...I am satisfied that your marriage to the eea national facilitates your long term presence in the member states and achieves your primary goal to get in the UK
And
it is also reason able foe member stats to be satisfied that EU citizens have sufficient resources for themselves and their family memebrs not to be burdon on social assistance system of host memeber state, sufficient resources including comprehensive sickness insuranceits. the EU national source of imcome is unclear befor me, there is no information front of me how the EEA national is self sufficeint

we both are out side of the uk from last 2 years and baby is around 2 years too.

there is not need of documents for just 10 days visit but still refusal

scorpio1 wrote:Thanks for reply,

I note that you did not submit the child's birth certificate.

everthing is written on passport and there is no any argu on baby though

exact words, from the letter that the ECO used for (3) and (4)

wordings are:
you made eea fp application 6 monhts after leaving the UK ref number...I am satisfied that your marriage to the eea national facilitates your long term presence in the member states and achieves your primary goal to get in the UK
And
it is also reason able foe member stats to be satisfied that EU citizens have sufficient resources for themselves and their family memebrs not to be burdon on social assistance system of host memeber state, sufficient resources including comprehensive sickness insuranceits. the EU national source of imcome is unclear befor me, there is no information front of me how the EEA national is self sufficeint

we both are out side of the uk from last 2 years and baby is around 2 years too.

there is not need of documents for just 10 days visit but still refusal

this isn't the first time I have seen this, infact SOLVIT seem to think the above too, whereas the LAW states that for up to 3 months you have the right of entry and residence which includes holidays/visiting family etc.

and for that first 3 months the EEA national does NOT have to be a "qualified person" and only some proof that one of you is an EEA national exercising free movement of which their registration certificate is proof.

the 17 pages of an EEA/fp application form are akin to family settlement questions.

scorpio1 wrote:thanks for reply,
i understand others but could you please explain "com 313, , the IDI and case law, in particular MRAX"
Thanks

Comm 313 is NOT legally binding, it is a communication that was sent to ALL member states as "guidance" on applying the directive, it gives "indicative criteria" and examples of when people are and are not under free movement,
read with the directive and the guide to the directive its quite good at getting a better picture in some parts, it expands on articles of the directive.

the IDI is the (UK) immigration directorate instructions which CLEARLY state how an immigration officer should treat an eea/fp application at port, and what stamp should be placed in the third country nationals passport
the IDI covers ALL aspects of immigration this is just one section of 1 chapter of it.

MRAX is the case law of the ECJ that covers residence ~ documentation.

it is also reasonable for member stats to be satisfied that EU citizens have sufficient resources for themselves and their family memebrs not to be burdon on social assistance system of host memeber state, sufficient resources including comprehensive sickness insuranceits. the EU national source of imcome is unclear befor me, there is no information front of me how the EEA national is self sufficient

Very cute. This ECO is improvising and making statements about what is "reasonable" for member states (oh wait, that is us as UKBA!) to be satisfied about.

They would hopefully also think it is "reasonable" that ECOs be well trained and know what they are no allowed to do.

The upside of staff that are not properly trained, is that an appeal can always result in the decision being overturned and reversed.

The same member of staff who is not properly trained will also give someone the permission they seek when they should not have. Its a win, win situation, isn't it? Be grateful for the untrained staff.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

it is also reasonable for member stats to be satisfied that EU citizens have sufficient resources for themselves and their family memebrs not to be burdon on social assistance system of host memeber state, sufficient resources including comprehensive sickness insuranceits. the EU national source of imcome is unclear befor me, there is no information front of me how the EEA national is self sufficient

Very cute. This ECO is improvising and making statements about what is "reasonable" for member states (oh wait, that is us as UKBA!) to be satisfied about.

They would hopefully also think it is "reasonable" that ECOs be well trained and know what they are no allowed to do.

do you think they really are not trained, or do you think they are following instructions, possibly unwritten ones but nevertheless that they are following some instruction from somewhere?


SOLVIT UK is part of the UK govt, and when i first heard this about its reasonable for the member state...etc it was in relationship to France, so i don't think its about being untrained, i think that it is about trying it on by the UK (among others) to put all and any obstacles they can in the way of free movement.

Thanks all of you for comments,
Personally I think they are trained but try to make some barrier in free movement and delay the case.

Need to remove this barrier though?
Most probably through legal point of view

scorpio1 wrote:Thanks all of you for comments,
Personally I think they are trained but try to make some barrier in free movement and delay the case.

Need to remove this barrier though?
Most probably through legal point of view

resubmit, pointing out that the app conforms to the requirements/exhaustive list of documents as per the directive!

I will tell you that i totally refused to have my hubby apply for an EEA/fp for these kind of reasons!

and the ONLY documents that we supplied AT PORT were both passports, our marriage certificate, my receipt for an RC which in France serves as the registration certificate, and my husbands EXPIRED residence card, which had been issued only for 1 year instead of the required 5 years.

we offered and were asked for no other documents, we were asked if we were working, we both said yes we HAD been.

that was satisfactory to enter the UK under surinder singh

anything else is "fluff"

stand your ground with them (UK)

end of story!

I dont think there should be some changes in re submitting application,
my wife is not British and surrinder singh case is not applying here.
only solution i can see is to challenge these issues in court.

If Regulation 13(2) applies in your case, then no need to meet the requirement of Regulation 12(1a)(ii)

thanks for reply,
in my case i am living with my eea national wife in EU country.
she trvaled UK number of times but less then 3 months time.

just 1 query for all forum,
What is reasonable and sufficient resources for an EEA national if go to the UK less then 3 months time under regulation 13?

Any help should be appreciated.
Thanks