4 years in UK - any chance of success?

[Lost_Soul]

I came to UK legally on a visit visa 4 years ago in June 2003. I had extended my visa for another 6 months, and then applied for further leave to remain as AKIN to marriage in Dec 2003. (Since laws changed in 2003 regarding switching visa over to Marriage status.)

I have been engaged to my wife since 1998, and we got married abroad in Feb 2002 (have certificate). We also got registered in UK in Dec 2002. We now have a son who is over a year old. Both are UK citizens. The Home Office has documented proof of our relationship and in their words they have "no doubt we are married."

My status is still legal (pending Home Office decision(s)). Wife has a mortgage and a great job - never have we relied on govt funds.

Is there any chance of a definite positive result to my case? Does the elapsed time work in our favor? Is there a time-period that once elapsed allows our situation to change to naturalised? What's this 5-year rule I hear about regarding naturalisation?

Please advise.

Kind regards.

[mym]

What nationality is your wife?

[Lost_Soul]

What nationality is your wife?

Both wife and son are British citizens and with UK passports.

[Dawie]

I came to UK legally on a visit visa 4 years ago in June 2003. I had extended my visa for another 6 months, and then applied for further leave to remain as AKIN to marriage in Dec 2003. (Since laws changed in 2003 regarding switching visa over to Marriage status.)

I have been engaged to my wife since 1998, and we got married abroad in Feb 2002 (have certificate). We also got registered in UK in Dec 2002. We now have a son who is over a year old. Both are UK citizens. The Home Office has documented proof of our relationship and in their words they have "no doubt we are married."

My status is still legal (pending Home Office decision(s)). Wife has a mortgage and a great job - never have we relied on govt funds.

Is there any chance of a definite positive result to my case? Does the elapsed time work in our favor? Is there a time-period that once elapsed allows our situation to change to naturalised? What's this 5-year rule I hear about regarding naturalisation?

Please advise.

Kind regards.

I'm confused:

1) If you got married to your British wife why did you come to the UK on a visit visa and not a spouse visa in June 2003?

2) What do you mean by "further leave to remain as AKIN to marriage in Dec 2003"? Akin to marriage? Why not just apply for a spouse visa?

3) What exactly do you mean by "We also got registered in UK in Dec 2002"? Registered for what?

4) "My status is still legal (pending Home Office decision(s)" What exactly is your immigration status at this moment in time and what type of visa are you still waiting for a decision from the Home Office for?

5) You have no chance of naturalisation until you obtain a spouse visa (by virtue of being married to your British wife), remain on that spouse visa for 2 years, and then apply for indefinite leave to remain.

[sakura]

I came to UK legally on a visit visa 4 years ago in June 2003. I had extended my visa for another 6 months, and then applied for further leave to remain as AKIN to marriage in Dec 2003. (Since laws changed in 2003 regarding switching visa over to Marriage status.)

I have been engaged to my wife since 1998, and we got married abroad in Feb 2002 (have certificate). We also got registered in UK in Dec 2002. We now have a son who is over a year old. Both are UK citizens. The Home Office has documented proof of our relationship and in their words they have "no doubt we are married."

My status is still legal (pending Home Office decision(s)). Wife has a mortgage and a great job - never have we relied on govt funds.

Is there any chance of a definite positive result to my case? Does the elapsed time work in our favor? Is there a time-period that once elapsed allows our situation to change to naturalised? What's this 5-year rule I hear about regarding naturalisation?

Please advise.

Kind regards.

I'm confused:

1) If you got married to your British wife why did you come to the UK on a visit visa and not a spouse visa in June 2003?

2) What do you mean by "further leave to remain as AKIN to marriage in Dec 2003"? Akin to marriage? Why not just apply for a spouse visa?

3) What exactly do you mean by "We also got registered in UK in Dec 2002"? Registered for what?

4) "My status is still legal (pending Home Office decision(s)" What exactly is your immigration status at this moment in time and what type of visa are you still waiting for a decision from the Home Office for?

5) You have no chance of naturalisation until you obtain a spouse visa (by virtue of being married to your British wife), remain on that spouse visa for 2 years, and then apply for indefinite leave to remain.

I'm also confused.

Lost_soul, do you mean that you didn't apply for a spouse visa out-country (from your home country/country of legal residence) and came on a visitor's visa, and you've been on that visa since, and then applied for a spouse visa? Then, it means you applied using a visitor's visa, but there has been a no-switching rule for a very long time. And you've been waiting for a decision on the spouse visa since Dec 2003?

Or are you applying for naturalisation?

[mym]

His actual status at the moment sounds very dodgy - this is a case where professional advice should be sought IMO.

[avjones]

I agree, Mark, the whole file would need to be reviewed carefully.

[IMMIGRATION LAWYER]

To me you lodged your aplication which was treated as out of rules by the Home Office and is awaiting consideration in a backlog of millions of similar applications...

It is unlikely that you will be given a stutus and the best way for you to regularize your status in the UK is to return home and lodge your related application to the nearest BHC/Embassy.

Unless there are other circumstances which you did not tell us...

[Lost_Soul]

Greets.

1) If you got married to your British wife why did you come to the UK on a visit visa and not a spouse visa in June 2003?

Personal reasons really - came on a visit - wife insisted on staying longer - then we decided we might as well apply for citizenship. It was inevitable anyway - was the decision at the time. We were not much informed either.

2) What do you mean by "further leave to remain as AKIN to marriage in Dec 2003"? Akin to marriage? Why not just apply for a spouse visa?

There are 2 sets of laws governing "relationships". If you have a legitimate marriage certificate - they wont even listen to you - out you go. However, if you have a "relationship akin to marriage" ie unwed partners, same gender preferences, or other grey areas - then the law sides with you and lets you stay. Both sets of relationships are same - except the term "marriage" is not welcomed by the Home Office. Regardless of marriage or not - both sets function as a marriage/akin to marriage. The law cannot treat one set differently than the other (otherwise it'd be deemed unfair to one category).

Thus under advice from a lawyer we filed under Akin-to in order for our relationship to be presented as a legitimate "relationship" (which the HO has acknowledged as such in writing).

3) What exactly do you mean by "We also got registered in UK in Dec 2002"? Registered for what?

UK marriage registration - in London when I was visiting the previous year.

4) "My status is still legal (pending Home Office decision(s)" What exactly is your immigration status at this moment in time and what type of visa are you still waiting for a decision from the Home Office for?

Technically am still visitor. Cannot be classified as overstayer as all dates were valid when original application was filed. Since HO is taking its time while in possession of my documents/passport - then I am in limbo till a final verdict is reached. Even if they do return my documents tomorrow - I still will be legal for 30 days to return home (or appeal if need be). As far as I am aware it'd be Indefinite Leave to Remain or Spouse Visa - not sure on that one off the top of my head - tis been a while.

5) You have no chance of naturalisation until you obtain a spouse visa (by virtue of being married to your British wife), remain on that spouse visa for 2 years, and then apply for indefinite leave to remain.

That doesnt sound too encouraging. Doesnt my time with my wife since marriage count towards anything? If the decision is not in our favour then that may very well be the course to take. I have no issues with it - just seems like needless red-tape. We are simply seeking normality - overseas applications waiting period can range from 3 months to 1 year to reach decisions - thanks to the current global situation - the UK embassies have CLOSED DOORS. No one can enter them - we have to apply via the post - and no telephone communication either. We then wait 3 months in silence - they tend to send entire casefiles back with a note - send us xx_payslip. Then we refile. And if the the clerk sitting there finds another point - again file sent back - or even refused for no real reason - they simply have no time to even consider the cases - This can go on forever. Not a joke to be apart from one's family like that.

[PaperPusher]

Where did you get the idea that 'the term "marriage" is not welcomed by the Home Office'. Is it because it appears you can switch to unmarried partner more easily than a spouse?

Do you mean you applied as a relationship akin to marriage, but were married at the time? Unmarried partners have to provide more extensive evidence of the relationship over two years compared to couples that are married where that part of it is satisfied by a marriage certificate.

laws changed in 2003 regarding switching visa over to Marriage status

The IDIs for marriage state:

The "no switching" into marriage provision prevents those given limited leave to enter the United Kingdom for 6 months or less, e.g. visitors and short term students, from switching into the marriage category. It does not apply to those given leave to enter the United Kingdom for 6 months as a fiancé(e). Neither does it apply to those who have been granted an extension of stay in the United Kingdom of six months or less at the end of their initial period of leave

You said you had a visitors visa, and then a visa for a further 6 months. Unless I am reading the IDIs wrong, and I also checked the rules, you can switch to spouse visa. That is what it says now at least.

I would wait for an expert to let you know for sure.

Have you got in touch with the Home Office to find out what the status of your application is? You could also get a copy of your file through the a Subject Access request to find out more. You can do this by the following:

Individuals must submit subject access requests in writing and must also pay a fee of £10. There is no obligation to process any request for subject access until these two requirements have been met. Individuals seeking information about their immigration records should make their request by writing to:
The Data Protection Unit
Lunar House
40 Wellesley Rd
Croydon
CR9 2BY
They should enclose a cheque or postal order for £10 made payable to “The Accounting Officer – Home Officeâ€

[Lost_Soul]

Where did you get the idea that 'the term "marriage" is not welcomed by the Home Office'. Is it because it appears you can switch to unmarried partner more easily than a spouse?

Do you mean you applied as a relationship akin to marriage, but were married at the time? Unmarried partners have to provide more extensive evidence of the relationship over two years compared to couples that are married where that part of it is satisfied by a marriage certificate.

After our trip abroad - my wife flew back to UK in March 03, the HO back-dated and changed the No-Switching rule to May 03 (we were unaware of this concept then), I landed in June. At that time - the rule was unamended and was very clear-cut: Marriage = no-switching! Application immediately rejected. How do we know this? (a) The lawyer told us from his then-current experiences and (b) when we had initially filed as "akin-to", the HO misfiled it under "Marriage", and immediately refused it based on the "no switching" rule. Ofcourse we pointed out the clerical error and resubmitted it - and it's been there since. As for extensive evidence - we have submitted tonnes of that - no worries there.

The "no switching" into marriage provision prevents those given limited leave to enter the United Kingdom for 6 months or less, e.g. visitors and short term students, from switching into the marriage category. It does not apply to those given leave to enter the United Kingdom for 6 months as a fiancé(e). Neither does it apply to those who have been granted an extension of stay in the United Kingdom of six months or less at the end of their initial period of leave

You said you had a visitors visa, and then a visa for a further 6 months. Unless I am reading the IDIs wrong, and I also checked the rules, you can switch to spouse visa.

Aye. I had a visitors visa + further 6 months extension on it.

That is what it says now at least.

So you mean that if I had 6 months extension granted - I *can* switch to SPOUSE visa now? This permission to switch over seems a bit of good news (I think). As I'm pretty sure this was NOT in the clause when we filed.

http://www.uklgig.org.uk/Already%20in%2 ... ategories_

See this link under Switching rule - seems the "akin" people also have permission to switching now.

The above link leads to this link:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/lawand ... ules/part8

I am unsure what applies to my status in this document. Too much legal jargon-loops within.

I would wait for an expert to let you know for sure.

Do you folks have some recommendations for some sharp lawyers in London area? Preferably who wont charge massive amounts of cash?

Have you got in touch with the Home Office to find out what the status of your application is? You could also get a copy of your file through the a Subject Access request to find out more. You can do this by the following:

Individuals must submit subject access requests in writing and must also pay a fee of £10. There is no obligation to process any request for subject access until these two requirements have been met. Individuals seeking information about their immigration records should make their request by writing to:
The Data Protection Unit
Lunar House
40 Wellesley Rd
Croydon
CR9 2BY
They should enclose a cheque or postal order for £10 made payable to “The Accounting Officer – Home Officeâ€

[VictoriaS]

If you were legally married then I can't see how applying for the unmarried partner provision could possibly work.

if you would like me to review the file, please e-mail or PM me.


Victoria

[Lost_Soul]

If you were legally married then I can't see how applying for the unmarried partner provision could possibly work.

if you would like me to review the file, please e-mail or PM me.


Victoria

Thanks - I shall PM you with my email address. Are your offices around London?

Regards.

[Dawie]

You can't choose to apply the Home Office rules that suit you. You are either married to someone or you are not. You cannot use the Unmarried Partner rules if you are married to someone.

I understand your reason for not switching to a spouse visa in-country as this is not allowed under the switching rules for someone on a vistors leave-to-remain.

However, have you considered just simply returning to your home country and applying for a spouse visa from there? Depending on what your home country is you could get the visa on the same day that you apply or within a few days.