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Re: British Passport for Minor

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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noajthan
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Re: British Passport for Minor

Post by noajthan » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:15 pm

philotheos wrote:Can anyone help me?

I am a British citizen otherwise than by descent. My partner, who is a Philippines national with no connection to the UK gave birth to our baby daughter in Feb. 2014 in the Philippines. A Philippines birth certificate showing the mother's name and my name as father was issued a day after the child was born. As we were unmarried at the time, I had to show my UK passport as ID to the birth certificate issuing authorities. I also had to undergo an interview. From the outset, our daughter has carried my surname, as my partner and I intended to marry later on, which we did in a properly held legal ceremony in Nov. 2014.

On the strength of the birth and marriage certificates my daughter has obtained a Philippines passport and recently a US tourist visa. In Jan. 2015, we decided to apply for a UK passport for my daughter to the Liverpool Passport Office (LPO). We sent in all the necessary documentation, which included our passports, birth and marriage certificates in the original. These were duly returned to us last March but we were told the application would be delayed whilst the LPO sought confirmation from the Philippines authorities of the marriage certificate. The LPO has apparently emailed the Philippines authorities twice, the 1st time 3 months ago, the 2nd 6 weeks ago. No reply has been forthcoming and we are beginning to think nothing will ever be heard back. As a result, we are stuck and in a bureaucratic black hole.

The LPO insist that they need to have independent verification of the marriage document, since they have to ensure that my wife did not have another husband at the time of the child's birth, in which case that would be the deciding factor in determining my daughter's right to British citizenship. By the way - and this is well-known to the LPO - there is no divorce in the Philippines, so had she been married beforehand, my wife could never have married me 7 months after the birth of our baby.

The LPO's stance strikes as strange and would appear not to conform to the law [BNA 1981, s. 2 (1) (a)], which states that "a person born outside the UK...is a British citizen at birth if, at the time of birth, either parent is a British citizen 'otherwise than by descent'". Moreover, the law states that for children born after 1.7.2007 paternity can be proved by the father of the child being named in a birth certificate issued within one year of the date of the child's birth [SI 2006/No. 1496 - BNA 1981 S. 50 n(9a & 9B)]. We have brought the foregoing to the attention of the LPO but have been brusquely dismissed.

Can anyone help?
Some suggestions...

1) Go to Philippine embassy in London and see if you can mobilise the officials there to help in some way.

You could possibly persuade them to chase up the questions or documents you need.
Or start off a new train of verification of the paperwork via the embassy (rather than trying to contact offices in PH).

You will have to go in person as in our experience, (my wife is Filipino), you get better attention and results dealing face to face rather than over the phone.
No appointment necesary, just turn up but go early in the day as it is a busy place.

See http://philembassy-uk.org

2) The Philippines has an official document called a CENOMAR, 'certificate of no marriage'.
Your wife probably had to get one from the Philippines NSO when you were married.
That will help prove to HO her status at the time and whether or not she was married.

I have had separate dealings with HO and found to my cost they don't take your statements of Philippine (or any) law at face value.
In fact in our case the HO provided incorrect legal advice to the officials based on misinterpreting Philippine law.
But the problem is verbal arguments such as: "divorce is not permitted therefore..." don't carry much weight with HO officials.

A CENOMAR will prove she was single and free to marry.

3) Your thoughts about a child's right to a passport via a British father sound correct.
Suggest you ask HO to provide their objections in writing so you have something concrete that you or a lawyer can challenge.

PS A work colleague had very similar situation to yours but in Cambodia.
He had no problem obtaining a British passport for the baby but he was in Cambodia at the time and did it through the British embassy. They are now in UK and recently got married in UK.
For that family, the child's British passport was granted on basis of paternity as the couple was unmarried at the time.

Mabuhay!
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

philotheos
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Re: British Passport for Minor

Post by philotheos » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:29 pm

Thanks so much for your detailed input, Noajthan! It's really appreciated.

Firstly, I am sorry to say, however, that although I live in Manila at present, I have rung the Philippines Embassy in London, but they didn't want to know anything about the problem.

Secondly, I omitted to mention (sorry about this) that we did submit the CENOMAR (as you rightly sya, we couldn't have got married without one!) to the LPO as well as a CRS 5 Marriage Certificate, both of which they asked for. But this doesn't seem to have made much difference because the LPO still want independent verification that both documents are genuine. Clearly, they don't trust anything coming out of the Philippines - a fact I put to the Philippines London Embassy, who didn't seem remotely interested. Perhaps I'll write to the Ambassador!

Thirdly, I have put our arguments in writing to the LPO, who are so sick and tired of me they now refuse to respond concerning any details relating to nationality law.

Mabuhay!

noajthan
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Location: UK

Re: British Passport for Minor

Post by noajthan » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:48 pm

philotheos wrote:Thanks so much for your detailed input, Noajthan! It's really appreciated.

Firstly, I am sorry to say, however, that although I live in Manila at present, I have rung the Philippines Embassy in London, but they didn't want to know anything about the problem.

Secondly, I omitted to mention (sorry about this) that we did submit the CENOMAR (as you rightly sya, we couldn't have got married without one!) to the LPO as well as a CRS 5 Marriage Certificate, both of which they asked for. But this doesn't seem to have made much difference because the LPO still want independent verification that both documents are genuine. Clearly, they don't trust anything coming out of the Philippines - a fact I put to the Philippines London Embassy, who didn't seem remotely interested. Perhaps I'll write to the Ambassador!

Thirdly, I have put our arguments in writing to the LPO, who are so sick and tired of me they now refuse to respond concerning any details relating to nationality law.

Mabuhay!
Hmm, that's frustrating.
I'm now having flashbacks to our 8 month battle with HO for a visa for my step-daughter.

Being in country may help.
As you may know Philippine law is based on affidavits.

Suggest you find a reliable local lawyer - a distant relative of your wife perhaps.

Try to contact the officials who conducted your wedding and have them attest in affidavits that they married you.
Get several versions drawn up by the lawyer i.e statements from the priest and/or officials, captain of the barangay, key guests, the hotel or venue, etc.
Also have parents, neighbours and relatives provide affidavits that your wife was single (to their knowledge) when you got married.

You then have to get all the affidavits witnessed in front of a special lawyer (a notary??) & officially stamped & legalised.

The lawyer and this notary service shouldn't cost too much.
I did all this 5 years or so ago, but apart from time & effort it only cost a few 100s of pesos. Less than 1000PHP for sure.

We had one typewritten affidavit dismissedby HO as an 'obvious forgery' - it was not, it was a type-written and legally stamped affidavit.
So get many affidavits ie irrefutable proof.

While you're at it see if you can get an affidavit from an NSO official that the CENOMAR is genuine.
If the copy you have is old get a fresh legal copy.
You get my point.
HO cannot refute all that evidence.

I don't think HO has right to ignore you.

And if this continues when you are back in UK suggest you go to London embassy in person to progress it. (We have spent days there - persistence pays off).

Best of luck.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

philotheos
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Re: British Passport for Minor

Post by philotheos » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:09 pm

Thanks for your advice.

I doubt the LPO will accept any affidavits because they informed me verification has to come INDEPENDENTLY from the 3rd party. So I'm afraid we're stuck!

noajthan
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Re: British Passport for Minor

Post by noajthan » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:05 pm

philotheos wrote:Thanks for your advice.

I doubt the LPO will accept any affidavits because they informed me verification has to come INDEPENDENTLY from the 3rd party. So I'm afraid we're stuck!
I'd take belt & braces approach & get affidavits anyway plus some sort of validation from head office of NSO & of registrars.

Even if you have to camp out in embassy you surely have to get something in writing as to why they refute the paternity claim to a passport.

Then I suppose there's a scientific route with blood & DNA tests - but I have no experience of that.

All the best.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

philotheos
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Re: British Passport for Minor

Post by philotheos » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:13 pm

1. The London Philippines Embassy have nothing to do with this not the British Embassy Manila. Everything is handled by the LPO these days.

2. Yes, a DNA test might solve matters but this shouldn't be necessary. Also quite expensive!

Nevertheless, thanks for your input!

noajthan
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Re: British Passport for Minor

Post by noajthan » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:46 pm

philotheos wrote:1. The London Philippines Embassy have nothing to do with this not the British Embassy Manila. Everything is handled by the LPO these days.

2. Yes, a DNA test might solve matters but this shouldn't be necessary. Also quite expensive!

Nevertheless, thanks for your input!
I mentioned embassy as my colleague was dealing with embassy in Cambodia for his case.

LPO should accept bc as it was issued within the year.

Maybe worth searching this forum for similar paternity-related cases.

HO denied my wife's passport for 4 months but we got irrefutable proof in the end.

Just keep going.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

philotheos
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Re: British Passport for Minor

Post by philotheos » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:12 pm

Many thanks!

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