ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Multiple queries – advice needed!

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé | Ancestry

Moderators: Casa, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, Administrator

Locked
Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:42 pm

Hello, I suppose I should get straight to the point with the problems I am having and explain my situation carefully in no uncertain terms. So, here go…

I am a UK (from birth) citizen. My fiancée is a Chinese citizen who currently resides in China. We are looking to applying for a visa to have her come and settle with me. We do not have any children. I am 25 years old, she is 24 (she will be 25 when we go to apply for this). I have been to see my partner in China and stayed with her for 4 months before (spaced out). As of yet she has not been to the UK.

First, I should mention my circumstances – 1) I appear to meet the “adequate maintenance” requirement set out under Appendix FM Section 1.7A. I am disabled and a recipient of DLA (Mid-low, roughly £310pcm) so I know I qualify at least. I also receive ESA (support component, about £410 pcm) and a small premium on my DLA (about £15 a week I think? Unsure). My housing benefit is in the form of local housing allowance and is the top rate (which does not cover all of my rent, but nearly). My housing benefit is £188 every fortnight twice a month. My total rental costs are £450 pcm. My council tax is £12pcm. Tallied over a year, I pay roughly £50 rent a month. I currently do not work.

My housing situation is that I have recently (with great struggle) moved into independent living. I receive support in the form of counselling and parental/family support, but my flat is entirely in my name and I am classed as the sole occupier – it is entirely self-contained and not shared although there is student accommodation above me (although friends and relatives do come and stay with me often, as I find it difficult to leave the house and being solitary all the time is not good for my mental wellbeing. At all.). My flat meets the standard of housing set out in 1.7A in terms of floor space. The flat is kept to a good standard by myself and my landlord.

You’re probably wondering what the problem is – well, the problem is anxiety. Chiefly my partner’s anxiety. Her command of the English language is very good and she along with me has studied the documents in detail. She has also been talking to people who were/are in a similar situation to us. She seems to of discovered a few red flags along the way, which I will go over now –
• According to the appendix, the only form of income not permitted when applying the adequate maintenance formula is third-part support. I assume therefore that my DLA, ESA, housing benefit and that other small premium that I am unsure of will count towards the sum? I have heard income-related ESA may be forbidden, but I am not on that.
• My fiancée was talking to an “unofficial” advisor for China-UK settlement Visas. She (the “advisor”) bought up a case that involved a couple in a similar situation to us. Their application was refused based on the fact that he lived in private rented accommodation. Their refusal stated that living in private rented accommodation was too “unstable” (cost wise) and therefore inadequate. The couple in question had to leave and move in with his parents in order to get the visa, and then find a council or housing association home. This case is most perplexing as the purpose of the adequate maintenance formula is to well, make sure you can adequately accommodate you and your partner and any dependants. Could there be a possible problem with me living in rented accommodation? Will I have to show them more evidence i.e Gas, electricity and water bills for them to be satisfied? They claim to not use their own discretion but this is an obvious lie if they reject someone who meets the AM requirement! Could there be any pitfalls out there that I need to watch out for?
• The actual visa we need to apply for. Which one is it? My partner believes if we apply for the settled visa as an unmarried couple (not legally married here or in China, and no we don’t plan on getting married in China as we do not have her parents blessing. Yes, one of those situations…) we will have to convert it to another type of visa and pay another £956! So the plan is Apply for the family visa>Prove our relationship>presumably granted>She comes to the UK>we marry within 6 months (we’re already planning a church wedding ^_^). All fine and dandy? After we marry, do we need to change the Visa into something else?
• Evidence and proof of relationship. We plan on submitting Western Union payment details, personal letters, gifts (with receipt), skype photos (when we skype she takes a photo us talking every time), skype call logs, wechat logs, emails, photos of us together, photos of me with her and her family (no blessing for a marriage here, but they accept me as her fiancée), cards and maybe a few other assortments. Does this sound good? Any tips on how to present this evidence? :D
• Last but not least – I am sorry for going into so much detail. And I’m sorry I am posting about something that isn’t a real problem yet – as we haven’t even applied. You may consider this all as overly pedantic, and I see your point if you do – but one of the conditions I have is Autism. And we’re a little bit, well, obsessive. I angst over details. My fiancée’s worries have a knock-on effect on me. Anxiety and stress is very harmful to my health and exhibits itself not only as mental symptoms but also physical ones as well. I am sorry for being so obsessive :c

I look very much to hearing from the community around here! I would be eternally grateful for any advice.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33343
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by vinny » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:12 pm

Unfortunately, she cannot apply as an unmarried partner, unless you have been living together for at least two years, akin to marriage. However, a six months fiancée visa may be possible. Also subject to A1 English. After marriage switch to FLR(M), before leave expires.

See also adequate maintenance and accommodation.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:21 pm

vinny wrote:Unfortunately, she cannot apply as an unmarried partner, unless you have been living together for at least two years, akin to marriage. However, a fiancée visa may be possible. Also subject to A1 English.

See also adequate maintenance and accommodation.
Thank you for a reply.

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/eligibility - under the part of "you must be one of the following" it clearly states "engaged to be married or to become civil partners" underneath "living together for two years. So I am slightly confused.

I have done the AM calculations and I seem to pass, correct? Or am I missing something? :shock:

I will study those links in detail.

OK, I have been going through it all and I can find no red flags. Changing our fiancee visa to a the type you mentioned would be no problem?

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:43 pm

I am feeling rather distressed, as I keep seeing that "living for two years akin to marriage" thing come up again and again.

It would of been impossible for us to co inhabit when she has no right to live here with me and I with her in China.

I could really do with some more detailed advice. I have gone over and over the documents.

Edit: I should also add that the language requirement won't be a problem, as we're pretty sure her degree in the language will suffice. If not, she would easily pass the requirement, so we're not worried about that.

Edit 2: Adequate maintenance counts for a fiance visa?

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33343
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by vinny » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:03 am

Eligibility wrote:You must be one of the following:
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:09 am

vinny wrote:
Eligibility wrote:You must be one of the following:
I don't understand, I am one of the following?

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33343
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by vinny » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:09 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33343
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by vinny » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:11 am

Nortalus wrote:
vinny wrote:
Eligibility wrote:You must be one of the following:
I don't understand, I am one of the following?
Yes, for a fiancée visa,
engaged to be married or to become civil partners
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:15 am

But I have not been living with her, that has been impossible...

If that was a stone-cold requirement, then why do they mention "must of met"?

:|

(and I think you for your replies, I truly do)

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:33 am

I may be getting confused as I am reading from multiple sources.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33343
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by vinny » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:42 am

For a fiancée visa, it's not required for you to be living together. However, you must have met, intend to marry in the UK and intend to live together, etc.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:43 am

vinny wrote:For a fiancée visa, it's not required for you to be living together. However, you must have met, intend to get marriage and intend to live together, etc.
Thank you.

Can I be a pain and ask for some more advice? It's in regards to my housing situation. I am a little worried I'll be rejected on the grounds I rent privately and I am on a 1-month rolling lease.

Thank you again.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33343
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by vinny » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:50 am

There isn't much guidance on this. It's unclear to me on how they will interpret a one-month rolling lease.
Part 8[/url] > Annex [url=https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/452964/IDI_Adequate_Maintenance_and_Accommodation_Part_8_Annex_F.pdf]F wrote:... The decision maker must be satisfied that adequate permanent accommodation will be available after the marriage or the civil partnership has taken place and that adequate temporary accommodation will be available in the meantime, e.g. provided by family or friends. Evidence relating to the temporary address and the proposed long term address after marriage or civil partnership should be provided with the entry clearance application as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner. An entry clearance application may be refused if the temporary or proposed long term address is not considered to be adequate accommodation. An application made after the marriage or civil partnership has taken place should not rely on prospective accommodation...
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:01 am

vinny wrote:There isn't much guidance on this. It's unclear to me on how they will interpret a one-month rolling lease.
Part 8[/url] > Annex [url=https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/452964/IDI_Adequate_Maintenance_and_Accommodation_Part_8_Annex_F.pdf]F wrote:The decision maker must be satisfied that adequate permanent accommodation will be available after the marriage or the civil partnership has taken place and that adequate temporary accommodation will be available in the meantime, e.g. provided by family or friends. Evidence relating to the temporary address and the proposed long term address after marriage or civil partnership should be provided with the entry clearance application as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner. An entry clearance application may be refused if the temporary or proposed long term address is not considered to be adequate accommodation. An application made after the marriage or civil partnership has taken place should not rely on prospective accommodation. Accommodation should not generally be prospective in child applications made under Part 8.
Thank you for that. Do you think some sort of supporting evidence from my landlord (evidence to support that he won't kick us out and the accommodation is stable - the rolling lease is very standard as it enables you to leave any time you like, with 1 months notice. It is more for your own benefit than anyone else's). Their use of "permanent" is very strange. I detest this vagueness. Basically, my lease was a fixed 6 month one. If I left during that 6 month period I would of broken my rental agreement and would of been penalized. After the preliminary 6 months is up, it goes on to a rolling contract whereby I agree to let it continue on month after month. However if I wish to leave I must still give 1 months notice.

It basically makes no difference whatsoever. And I see no reason why I cannot re-negotiate my lease. And I am lucky to have a landlord who comes from a migrant background!

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33343
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by vinny » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:06 am

Supporting evidence from your landlord may be helpful. How long have you been living there?
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:10 am

vinny wrote:Supporting evidence from your landlord may be helpful. How long have you been living there?
I guess so, they did say evidence could be "varied".

It will be a year come the time we apply for the visa.

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:45 am

I should probably go to bed, but if anyone who has first hand experience in regards to the possible housing issue sees this thread, I would be very grateful for their input!

Thanks again.

User avatar
Casa
Moderator
Posts: 25817
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:32 pm
United Kingdom

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Casa » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:58 am

Privately rented accommodation is acceptable. Your fiancee has been misinformed.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Nortalus
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: Multiple queries – advice needed!

Post by Nortalus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:45 pm

Casa wrote:Privately rented accommodation is acceptable. Your fiancee has been misinformed.
Thank you. Still a little worried about the lease part though. I'm pretty sure it is just a standard ATS lease, and the status of my lease is very typical.

Barring any mistakes when reading the guidance and your replies, I seem to be facing no major obstacles when we apply for the visa?

Locked