I want to be a British citizen

[ohara]

Hi all, first post here. Read through some of the threads and didn't understand most of the acronyms used, so I just wanted to ask, how likely is it that a naturalisation application will be accepted?

I was born in Finland, have been living in the UK for 21 years (basically most of my life). My mother is also Finnish but has had British citizenship for a long time (I guess she never bothered to sort mine) and she has a UK passport etc.

Since I am of the age of taking care of myself I guess it is something I got around to sorting sooner or later, mainly (but not only) because I want to apply for a job only available to British citizens (it is in the armed forces). I would also like a UK passport etc.

I work full time, 2 separate jobs, and have been in continuous employment since I left college at 18, I have never been unemployed since leaving and have never claimed any benefits.

I would say I am of good character, I had one mishap back in 2002 due to mixing with the wrong crowd of people I was arrested for a minor offence and received a reprimand ('spent' since 2007). Since then I have not been in any trouble, I have held a UK driving licence since 2007 which is completely clean, never had any driving offences.

I have 2 UK bank accounts one of which has an ISA tied to it, 1 credit card and a mobile phone contract. I am not in any debt and have no financial trouble.

So how likely is it that my application would be accepted? I don't want to apply and be rejected, since I read that the cost is somewhere in the region of £700 which is a lot of money to throw away on an unsuccessful application.

Thanks

[John]

Finland joined the EU in 1995, and it your time in the UK pre-dates that. Anyway it seems clear that you have PR status in the UK .... Permanent Residence ..... and indeed have had that status for at least one year. Indeed for considerably longer than one year.

Therefore it seems that you do qualify for applying for Naturalisation. But first, have you passed the Life in the UK Citizenship test? If not, well you have that "pleasure" to come. Without the pass certificate from that test you cannot apply for Naturalisation.

..... have been in continuous employment since I left college at 18

It is worth establishing exactly when you got PR status in the UK. Can you please post the month and year when you left college? Then we can work out how you have been exercising Treaty Rights in the UK, and indeed the sort of evidence needed to prove that.

[ohara]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I started working part time in June 2007 and finished college in June 2008.

I was mistaken about my age - I was 18 when I started working but 19 when I finished college.

I have not done the Life in the UK test, however, having lived here for 21 years what are the chances I would fail? I speak and write English extremely fluently, as if it were my first language. If you did not know my name and background you probably wouldn't be able to tell that I was not English.

[PaperPusher]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I started working part time in June 2007 and finished college in June 2008.

I was mistaken about my age - I was 18 when I started working but 19 when I finished college.

I have not done the Life in the UK test, however, having lived here for 21 years what are the chances I would fail? I speak and write English extremely fluently, as if it were my first language. If you did not know my name and background you probably wouldn't be able to tell that I was not English.

I'll put it this way, many British people would fail the test!

It is a general knowledge multiple choice test in English about life in the UK. There is an official book you can get.

[osteophytes]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I started working part time in June 2007 and finished college in June 2008.

I was mistaken about my age - I was 18 when I started working but 19 when I finished college.

I have not done the Life in the UK test, however, having lived here for 21 years what are the chances I would fail? I speak and write English extremely fluently, as if it were my first language. If you did not know my name and background you probably wouldn't be able to tell that I was not English.

Just do the practice exams. There is an official book which has 14 tests and that is more than enough. No need to read the "text book".

Most of them are useless questions but you have to prepare!

[friendinneed]

I have not done the Life in the UK test, however, having lived here for 21 years what are the chances I would fail?

You have been here long enough to remember the up roar that when a sample of "British" people who were all at least 5 generation here took the test the pass rate was fairly low.

The test is not that difficult, there is just a lot to remember, and a lot of people living here wont remember off hand the date for St Patricks day.

Being British from birth and with no study I was passing about 70% of the time using the sample questions.

[ohara]

Hello all, I posted here a few years ago about applying for naturalisation as a British citizen. My situation is fairly complex but I seem to have figured it all out except I have hit a roadblock - CSI.

A little background, as more information has come to light since I last posted.

I am a Finnish citizen who has lived in the UK for almost 25 years (since I was 18 months old). My mother (now deceased) was a British citizen by descent, born in Finland to a Finnish mother and British father. She grew up in the UK with her father, but moved back to live with her mum and step-father in Finland. She gave birth to me at 25 in Finland, then moved back to the UK about 18 months later. We then lived permanently in the UK, during which time she married again, and had another child here.

I grew up completely in the UK; went to school, further education etc, and I have worked full time since I was 19.

I'm now looking to become a British citizen through naturalisation, mainly because I am scared about the outcome of the EU referendum and what it will mean for me, and also because it just makes sense (and getting a Finnish passport here is a royal pain in the arse). I've looked through the form AN and it states that I need proof of permanent residence. So going through the application for a permanent residence document it states that any EEA national living in the UK as a student or self sufficient persion should be covered by comprehensive sickness insurance.

The problem is, that is news to me. I've never heard of CSI until now but it seems to be a thing. I have never had any sort of health insurance, and I always assumed I was covered by the NHS. My mother worked until the last 5 years of her life, and I've got a national insurance card and have worked since I was 19. I am registered with a local GP, and I use a NHS dentist.

The guidance for PR document applications says they should be rejected if no proof of CSI is provided. I have never had it in the 25 years I have lived here, as I had no idea of the requirement and I'm sure my mother didn't either while she was alive. Nobody ever said anything to me about it. If I can't get proof of PR, then I can't apply for naturalisation. Does this mean it is now too late for me and I've ruined my chances?

Thanks.

[LilyLalilu]

From your initial posts, it looks like you have been working continuously since you finished college in 2008 - which means that you acquired PR in 2013 by exercising treaty rights for 5 continuous years as a worker. You therefore do not need CSI as you are claiming PR as a worker, not as a student or self-sufficient person.

[noajthan]

Hello all, I posted here a few years ago about applying for naturalisation as a British citizen. My situation is fairly complex but I seem to have figured it all out except I have hit a roadblock - CSI.

A little background, as more information has come to light since I last posted.

I am a Finnish citizen who has lived in the UK for almost 25 years (since I was 18 months old). My mother (now deceased) was a British citizen by descent, born in Finland to a Finnish mother and British father. She grew up in the UK with her father, but moved back to live with her mum and step-father in Finland. She gave birth to me at 25 in Finland, then moved back to the UK about 18 months later. We then lived permanently in the UK, during which time she married again, and had another child here.

I grew up completely in the UK; went to school, further education etc, and I have worked full time since I was 19.

I'm now looking to become a British citizen through naturalisation, ...

The guidance for PR document applications says they should be rejected if no proof of CSI is provided. I have never had it in the 25 years I have lived here, as I had no idea of the requirement and I'm sure my mother didn't either while she was alive. Nobody ever said anything to me about it. If I can't get proof of PR, then I can't apply for naturalisation. Does this mean it is now too late for me and I've ruined my chances?

Thanks.

Don't worry, this is not the end of the world.

CSI is only needed for those in the 'qualified person' category of student or self-sufficient person whilst exercising treaty rights in UK.
Workers, self-employed & jobseeker 'qualified persons' do not need to have held CSI.

As suggested above, you may well have already acquired PR in one of those other possible categories.

You may also have acquired PR in some way as a minor; eg as an EEA 'minor in education'.

There is also the 10 year long residency route but as an EEA national you will almost certainly have an easier route under EU rules & acquiring PR.

Back to EU rules...
To get confirmation of your PR you would, for example, only have to show you have worked continuously in UK for 5 years.

[ohara]

Thanks, but in the PR document application form (EEA_PR_07-15) it asks which type of application you are making. I have selected:

I’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as an EEA national qualified person, the family member or extended family member of a qualified person, or a combination of these.

As it is the only one applicable to me. It says to complete sections 5, 9, 16, 17, 18 and 19. Section 9 is "Relevant EEA national’s activity in the UK" and has the section about CSI. It says:

(7) Study or self-sufficiency – comprehensive sickness insurance
9.11 For any period in which you were, or your sponsor was, a student or self-sufficient person, indicate below how you/they met the requirement to hold comprehensive sickness insurance cover (the insurance must also cover family members in the UK.)

Which leads me to believe that I was required to have it. Should I just leave that section blank and submit the application?

[LilyLalilu]

This applies only if you are claiming your PR on the basis of times when you were a student or self-sufficient.
As you did not have CSI you should apply as a worker because you do not need CSI when exercising treaty rights this way.

[ohara]

OK. I am massively confused now. This is so overly complex that I know I'm going to mess it up somehow and waste £2000. I wish it were a case of just filling in a simple form.

Do I still need to complete the sections of the PR application form which detail vocational training, financial resources etc?

[noajthan]

Thanks, but in the PR document application form (EEA_PR_07-15) it asks which type of application you are making. I have selected:

I’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as an EEA national qualified person, the family member or extended family member of a qualified person, or a combination of these.

As it is the only one applicable to me. It says to complete sections 5, 9, 16, 17, 18 and 19. Section 9 is "Relevant EEA national’s activity in the UK" and has the section about CSI. It says:

(7) Study or self-sufficiency – comprehensive sickness insurance
9.11 For any period in which you were, or your sponsor was, a student or self-sufficient person, indicate below how you/they met the requirement to hold comprehensive sickness insurance cover (the insurance must also cover family members in the UK.)

Which leads me to believe that I was required to have it. Should I just leave that section blank and submit the application?

It's a generic form that applies to many people in all sort of circumstances.

Yes fill in relevant parts of Section 9.

Namely: Q9.4 Summary

but noting:

For any period in which you were/your sponsor was not a qualified person, or if you wish to give any further information, give details at 9.13

Fill in 9.5 for your employment.
You will need to submit adequate supporting documentary evidence (as per the guidance).

Then use Q9.13 to clarify that its your time as a worker that is relevant for PR.
Also include details of your time as a student without CSI.
I suppose school years can go here too.

You can also include a cogent cover letter if you need to explain your circumstances further.

Best of luck.

[noajthan]

OK. I am massively confused now. This is so overly complex that I know I'm going to mess it up somehow and waste £2000. I wish it were a case of just filling in a simple form

Relax.
Fee for 'confirmation of PR' card is £65--.

You would obviously not proceed to apply for privilege of citizenship without having bagged your PR card first so naturalisation fee (£1000+) is not placed at risk.

[ohara]

It's a generic form that applies to many people in all sort of circumstances.

Yes fill in relevant parts of Section 9.

Namely: Q9.4 Summary

but noting:

For any period in which you were/your sponsor was not a qualified person, or if you wish to give any further information, give details at 9.13

Fill in 9.5 for your employment.
You will need to submit adequate supporting documentary evidence (as per the guidance).

Then use Q9.13 to clarify that its your time as a worker that is relevant for PR.
Also include details of your time as a student without CSI.
I suppose school years can go here too.

You can also include a cogent cover letter if you need to explain your circumstances further.

Best of luck.

Thank you so much. What is a "qualified person" ?

I have filled in 9.8 with details of my further education studies, and 9.9 with my financial resources while I was in study (part time job and EMA). Should I leave these in or remove the information? What should I write in the box for 9.13? Something like "I have worked full time in the UK since 2008" ?

Thanks again

[ohara]

OK can anyone tell me if this is acceptable? I have included the details of my vocational training in the 2005-2008 period, and also the details of my self sufficiency during this same period (mainly part time job).

I have left the section about CSI blank, and in the "further information about how you acquired PR in the UK" I have written:

For the purposes of this application, please consider that I am applying on the basis that having
been in full time employment for over 5 years is sufficient evidence of permanent residence in
the UK. I have worked full time since approximately July 2008. I did however complete my entire primary, secondary and further education in the UK too.

I will also write a short covering letter detailing how I have lived in the UK permanently since I was 18 months old, completed my entire education here, that my mother was a British citizen and we were both unaware of the requirement for CSI.

[alvarez0306]

Your situation is almost identical to mine so I know exactly how you feel. I was born in Spain came over to the uk when I was 4. I have been raised here since a 4 year old child, gone through the education system, primary school high school sixth form uni etc and now due to the uncertainty surrounding the possibility of a 'Brexit' I am trying to protect myself by applying for permanent residency and then eventually hopefully, citizenship. I feel so annoyed I have to do this to be honest l, I'm a police officer in this country for gods sake! I was unsure about this whole csi like youself as well and the two above gave me the same advice, if your applying as a worker you don't need CSI. I did what you've done as well, explain on section 9.13 that I didn't have CSI as a student but hat I am applying on the basis of being a worker for five continuous years. I also completed a cover letter with this. Getting it all sent off tommorow. Fingers crossed we are both successful.

[ohara]

Thanks for the reply alvarez, it's nice to know there are others in the same boat! What did you end up doing for section 9, did you fill in the educational history bit or leave it blank and explain in the further information box / covering letter?

[alvarez0306]

Thanks for the reply alvarez, it's nice to know there are others in the same boat! What did you end up doing for section 9, did you fill in the educational history bit or leave it blank and explain in the further information box / covering letter?

I completed it to the best of my ability, I completed the sections so that I included all educational history and relevant dates so primary school high school sixth form and university. I left the CSI section blank as like yourself, did not have this as I did not even know about it. Then in section 9.13 I stated that I acknowledged that my time as a student does not mean I achieved permanent residency as I did not hold CSI, but that I am basing my application on the fact that I have been working full time since Feb 2010, as a police officer. So hopefully that should be enough evidence! I will include p60s, a few wage slips each year for the five years and an employment letter

[ohara]

Hm OK, great idea. I will write a covering letter to the same effect. I am going to send 7 years of P60's (I know only 6 are required) for good measure.

Thanks again for your help, I'm keen to find out how you get on and will let you know likewise.

[alvarez0306]

Hm OK, great idea. I will write a covering letter to the same effect. I am going to send 7 years of P60's (I know only 6 are required) for good measure.

Thanks again for your help, I'm keen to find out how you get on and will let you know likewise.

All sent off this morning, 6 p60s covering the five years employment, employment letter, 4 months worth of pay slips for each year (wasn't going to send 60 pay slips!), evidence of residency in the form of bank statements, Hmrc letters doctors letters etc (no more then three letters for each year). Hopefully that will be enough evidence. I have to admit I didn't like sending my passport and all these documents off! I wonder how long it will be for me to get all these docs back. Anyway I will let you know if I hear anything from them and the progress of my application.

[LilyLalilu]

Don't worry too much, it seems like you have plenty of evidence - and remember, you are only applying for a confirmation of something that you have already acquired automatically, so as long as the evidence is there you'll be fine.
You can request your documents back as soon as you have applied, no need to wait for your application to be processed.

[ohara]

Just thought I'd update people on this. In what is arguably a massive plot twist, I've done some digging over the last 24 hours and discovered that my mother's father is in fact NOT the British man who raised her, but an unknown Swedish man who disappeared the day she was born. My grandfather assures me that her birth certificate, which he is in the process of obtaining, will confirm this.

I'm not sure about the exact chain of events yet, but at some point my mother's biological mother married the British man. He had a legitimate child with her too, but the marriage broke down and he moved back to the UK with both children and raised them both. He did adopt my mother as his own daughter; I'm not sure when this occurred and I have applied to the GRO to get an adoption certificate if it can be found.

Armed with the information that my mother had two foreign parents yet still became a British citizen, I am led to believe that as per the UKVI guidance, the adoption itself led to my mother automatically being a British citizen otherwise than by descent. Even if this was not the case, the only other way I could imagine she became a British citizen is by naturalisation, which would have the same outcome anyway.

Finally, I believe I am correct in saying that if my mother WAS a British citizen otherwise than by descent, I should therefore be a British citizen by descent. Am I correct?

[alvarez0306]

Sounds like an episode of eastenders lol but yeah I think you would be able to apply straight for British citizenship if you had the relevant proof. I'm not entirely sure on that though I'm sure other people on here would be better placed to offer advice on that. May be just easier applying for PR and then citizenship a year later

Thanks for the advice lilylalilu much appreciated

[ohara]

I won't need to apply for citizenship if I am a citizen

I should be able to go straight ahead and apply for a passport.