Schengen visa application form - couple of questions

[alienated]

I'm filling in a schengen visa application form for my non-EU wife (I am a British Citizen, we are living outside UK/EU although I am still a UK resident). I understand she may apply for this visa free of charge, and with a lesser dossier of documents (marriage cert, passport, my passport **, insurance - yes but work/money/accommodation proof is not required for the application ***).

** Proof of my nationality as a British Citizen
Q1: Is my British passport ok, and if so, just the inside back/ID page?

*** I read mixed reports about having information regarding proof of funds & accommodation at the entry border. I will be travelling with her and will have cash and cards on me.
Q2: Will she need to show anything apart from her passport & visa?

The application form itself is quite clear in marking which questions do not need to be answered by my spouse however there are a couple of questions with which I could use some help/clarification, because of specific history.

Section 8) Nationality at birth. My wife was born in Holland to non-EU parents present on work permits. She/they all left at a very young age. They are unclear, as am I, of her nationality at birth. Like most countries, Holland does not give nationality purely based on birth and no formalities were completed prior to leaving, but I don't know if she had any Dutch nationality for that time? I suspect not.
Q3: Anything to suggest different?

Section 26) Visas from the past 3 years?
Q4: Does this include visas to non-Schengen countries?

Postdating: I thought I could find an answer to this, but didn't.
Q5: If we apply in May for travel in August, do they start the validity from the approval date or the date of travel?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You do not say what country you are going to or where you live now.

You typically need to include your whole passport, not just a copy. You also need to include your marriage certificate (which country was it issued, and in which language?).

Include all visas issued including non-EU.

If she has only one known citizenship, then just say that what the citizenship at birth. (I would suggest you separately start looking at whether she has dutch citizenship or could easily get it after living again in the netherlands, but that is another issue).

You can say how long you want it valid for (90 days) and put the start date of the validity bu entering the date you will enter the EU

[alienated]

Thanks for your reply.

You do not say what country you are going to or where you live now.

Our main destination is France, coming from Morocco. I hear the French embassies are pretty good here in Morocco - fixed appointments, cordial etc. (unlike what I have been told about spanish embassies).

You typically need to include your whole passport, not just a copy. You also need to include your marriage certificate (which country was it issued, and in which language?).

As I see it, I need [for her] to take both our passports, her national ID card, photos, marriage act (moroccan - arabic translated into french), insurance cover note. I will prepare 2 folders - one with originals, one with photocopies, and of course the application form.

I find it hard to believe that I would need to copy more than the identifying page of my passport but then again a lot about immigration has surprised me! They do say provide pages 1-6 of the applicants passport.

You can say how long you want it valid for (90 days) and put the start date of the validity bu entering the date you will enter the EU

So, do I put, under 25) length of stay (visa requested for a stay of ____ days), 90 days or 21 days? (the latter is the proposed length of this trip). I intend for her to tick multiple entry unless someone advises against - we have travelled together before, to the UK (her as a visitor, issued with a multiple entry 6-month visitor visa).

Incidentally where do I request the start date - under separate cover? Sections 30 & 31 for arrival and departure date are also sections 'not to be completed by family members of EU nationals (if you understand french, the forms are referenced below)

If she has only one known citizenship, then just say that what the citizenship at birth. (I would suggest you separately start looking at whether she has dutch citizenship or could easily get it after living again in the netherlands, but that is another issue).

Holland as the place of birth is a separate issue however as far as I have been told by the dutch consulate here in Morocco she has no claim to Holland, in terms of residency or citizenship (zilch as they effectively put it). What I have read independently of them seems to set that in stone - shame, would have made life a bit easier if the folks had sorted something out back then![/quote]

Documents (french, pdf)
The french version of the application form is found here:
http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/IMG/pd ... sejour.pdf

The french version of list of documents to produce (for family members of EU nationals) is found here:
http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/visa_ue_eee.pdf

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I would fill in Sections 30 for arrival date. And ask for 90 day multiple entry. Say something like you are considering another trip in the fall.

[alienated]

I would fill in Sections 30 for arrival date. And ask for 90 day multiple entry. Say something like you are considering another trip in the fall.

Multiple entry raises a question about insurance.

In order to obtain 90 days multiple entry, which I understand could be used any time within the six months of validity, do I need to show insurance for all possible trips (ie 6-month coverage), or will they still be happy to see a certificate covering a first trip - in our case for 2-3 weeks in august ?

Can anyone recommend multi-trip schengen insurance for non-EU residents (6/12 months, stays of up to 30 days)?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Family members of EU citizens who are travelling together with their EU family member are not required to have travel insurance.

[alienated]

Family members of EU citizens who are travelling together with their EU family member are not required to have travel insurance.

According to the french consulate's (morocco) list of documents for a spouse to produce (http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/visa_ue_eee.pdf), they require it. The last item translates:

"The insurance contract and general conditions covering emergency medical care and Hospital emergency and an evacuation to Morocco, up to 300 000 dirhams* for the entire duration of the visa requested, to the exclusion of any other words (eg.:"repatriation of vehicle")"

I realise that statement clearly answers my question (sorry, I didn't translate very well before) but at least begs another, in what you state. Maybe what you say only applies if you're coming from the UK, or is a special requirement in Morocco? I notice the french embassy in london allows you to print a declaration that you will obtain insurance for the period of travel. There are differences, depending on where you live. Even if you quote me a law, I think I'm going to have a hard time bypassing that one, or at least I'm going to make life hard for myself. Nevertheless I'd make that judgement if you can refer me to something.

* about £20,000

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There is not a law which explicitly says no insurance is required. But the non-EU spouse's entry is based on the relationship to the EU citizen alone.

See the material on Directive 2004/38/EC (especially the guide to getting the most out of it).

See also
http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ex_en.html

[alienated]

I read that article and see what you mean - it leads me to believe I could argue the case however it's my wife, not me, that enters the visa section. I will buy insurance for the trip, I have no problem with that, it's just that I have not found any multi-trip annual or six-month policies for non-EU/US citizens to show coverage for the full term, and I do not have an itinerary for which I could purchase cover for any future trips. Insuring a full six-month period is prohibitive.

Your replies have been very insightful, I think I should draw to a close unless there is something significant to add.

I would like to just ask - would they refuse this visa if we asked for 90 day/ME and only showed insurance cover for one 2-3 weeks trip? Would it help to cover that note with a declaration that cover would be sought for any future trips? I'm most worried about the refusal on a technicality and would prefer to seek single entry that risk it.

Ideally I'd find a decent multi-trip policy for her - anyone??

[alienated]

http://www.smtravel.co.uk/France.pdf is the French Consulate form for use in the UK. It appends a 3rd page (English+French) - a form declaring knowledge of the obligation to have insurance.

Surely if I buy my wife insurance covering the known trip and include this declaration, to represent future trips, they'd grant her the visa??

[alienated]

The french consulate differentiates between
1) the spouse of a french national (http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/ ... njoint.pdf - scroll down, court sejour is short stay)
and
2) a family member of a EU national, to include a spouse (http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/visa_ue_eee.pdf)

The document requirement for 1) & 2) differs only in that they ask for the insurance for 2) and not 1). So the spouse of a French national does not need to show them an insurance certificate but the spouse of a UK, Spanish or Italian national does.

Does this make sense? Is this legal?

The EU site that "Directive/2004/38/EC" references above does clearly stipulate that, neither to a consular agent nor a border rep, is one required to show a medical certificate (is that the same as insurance cover note?)

Help, I've kind of got stuck on knowing which way to go on this - stand by rights or realise they hold the key and may reject her for not meeting the requirements.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If they reject her, you just apply immediately again as well as getting the EU involved.

When do you plan to travel?

[alienated]

When do you plan to travel?

We will travel to the consular appointment in 10 days
Travel to Europe for late July

[alienated]

I've found a acceptably priced annual multi-trip policy, for a Moroccan, which I will take (locally, not on the web). If it was me personally going in to apply, I would not have the policy to hand and I would go and stand up to rights as a EU citizen however I am not allowed to enter, just as I wasn't allowed to enter the British Embassy Visa section when my wife had to endure cloaked insults from the Moroccan staff, and even a temporary refusal on the back of a load of crap excuses which were overturned.

I know I'm not alone in this - in experience and fear of treatment for my spouse - and I know it's not just the British Embassy. The Spanish Embassy here (and elsewhere I read) is notorious for rudeness, refusals and general lack of what should be - a welcome. Most certainly in the case of family members. I reckon most people will win at the end of a just cause, it's just whether you want to put up with difficulties, the stress and delays in between. In this case I find a reasonable compromise - of course that's not always possible.

So, for my wife's benefit alone, I will put the requested insurance document in the dossier. If for some reason they try what the British tried, you can be sure I'll be back here in these forums and beyond! I have faith though.

Thanks for guidance. I've become more learned about Schengen/family rights and so better prepared.

[alienated]

A further follow up on this - as offered by the Signpost service. Up to a point they spell out much of what has already been discussed but it is important to note that, according to them, my wife WILL need to show insurance. I quote from the relevant point:

However, there are common rules applicable to the issue of a Schengen visa. These rules are set out in a number of EU Council decisions implemented under the Regulation 789/2001. These rules are set out at the following website:

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l14007b.htm.

Council decision 2004/17/EC sets out certain of the detailed applicable rules. This is available at the following website:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 080:FR:PDF

and in English:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 080:EN:PDF

The rules provide only that your spouse is required to obtain insurance for the period of her stay ("pendant toute la durée du
séjour") - and not the period of validity of the visa - and that this should be evidenced at the time of application for that visa.

You should feel free to take that document with you, and evidence that you have or will obtain travel insurance. You should also indicate whether you are able to satisfy this condition by other means, for example, if you have sufficient medical and/or travel insurance that will cover your wife.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have recently seen a (German) Schengen visa issued to the spouse of a UK citizen. It is stamped on top "no insurance required" (in german).

[alienated]

[Edit: I'm going to edit and post this in a new post as it merits a new subject "Refused to process Schengen visa for spouse of EU national"]

[xjessie007]

The french consulate differentiates between
1) the spouse of a french national (http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/ ... njoint.pdf - scroll down, court sejour is short stay)
and
2) a family member of a EU national, to include a spouse (http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/visa_ue_eee.pdf)

The document requirement for 1) & 2) differs only in that they ask for the insurance for 2) and not 1). So the spouse of a French national does not need to show them an insurance certificate but the spouse of a UK, Spanish or Italian national does.

Does this make sense? Is this legal?

The EU site that "Directive/2004/38/EC" references above does clearly stipulate that, neither to a consular agent nor a border rep, is one required to show a medical certificate (is that the same as insurance cover note?)

Help, I've kind of got stuck on knowing which way to go on this - stand by rights or realise they hold the key and may reject her for not meeting the requirements.

I hope you already have the answer to this, but in case you do not have one. If a non-EU citizen applies for Schengen visa at a French embassy through a French husband, then the insurance is covered from the French husband's insurance (his national carrier). If a non-EU citizen wife applies at a French embassy through non-French husband, then there is no insurance that would apply to the non-EU citizen, so she is required to have insurance (because health insurance is mandatory in most EU states). In any case, if in doubt, it is better to spend some extra money just to be sure your wife will be covered in any event. Better be covered than be sorry. If you look at a standard Schengen visa application (see here application), look at the box 36, it says "Travel and/or health insurance. Valid until:" and the right side bar says "Supporting documents: Health insurance", so you can expect they ask for it when you go for the interview. The interviewers are door knobs, they do not know the exceptions, they just ask for the piece of paper, and if you do not have it, tough luck, you can argue, but it does not help. Here is a pretty good resource about Schengen visa. By the way, you do not need to pay the insurance for long, once your wife is in France, you send her to work, and she will be covered by the employer, no?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The french consulate differentiates between
1) the spouse of a french national (http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/ ... njoint.pdf - scroll down, court sejour is short stay)
and
2) a family member of a EU national, to include a spouse (http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/visa_ue_eee.pdf)

The document requirement for 1) & 2) differs only in that they ask for the insurance for 2) and not 1). So the spouse of a French national does not need to show them an insurance certificate but the spouse of a UK, Spanish or Italian national does.

Does this make sense? Is this legal?

The EU site that "Directive/2004/38/EC" references above does clearly stipulate that, neither to a consular agent nor a border rep, is one required to show a medical certificate (is that the same as insurance cover note?)

Help, I've kind of got stuck on knowing which way to go on this - stand by rights or realise they hold the key and may reject her for not meeting the requirements.

I hope you already have the answer to this, but in case you do not have one. If a non-EU citizen applies for Schengen visa at a French embassy through a French husband, then the insurance is covered from the French husband's insurance (his national carrier). If a non-EU citizen wife applies at a French embassy through non-French husband, then there is no insurance that would apply to the non-EU citizen, so she is required to have insurance (because health insurance is mandatory in most EU states). In any case, if in doubt, it is better to spend some extra money just to be sure your wife will be covered in any event. Better be covered than be sorry. If you look at a standard Schengen visa application (see here application), look at the box 36, it says "Travel and/or health insurance. Valid until:" and the right side bar says "Supporting documents: Health insurance", so you can expect they ask for it when you go for the interview. The interviewers are door knobs, they do not know the exceptions, they just ask for the piece of paper, and if you do not have it, tough luck, you can argue, but it does not help. Here is a pretty good resource about Schengen visa. By the way, you do not need to pay the insurance for long, once your wife is in France, you send her to work, and she will be covered by the employer, no? :)

Sorry this does not make any sense and is wrong on a number of different levels. Where do I start?

Not all French people have insurance through their national carrier. In fact, many French people live outside of France (e.g. in the UK) and have their health insurance from the NHS. As do UK citizens. As do non-UK spouses of UK citizens who are residing here legally.

Some of the interviewers may be “door nobsâ€

[xjessie007]

Not all French people have insurance through their national carrier. In fact, many French people live outside of France (e.g. in the UK) ....

...There is a lot the applicant can do. And in worst case they can even go to the border without a visa and force the visa to be issued there.

Isn't her husband still in France?

I think this is the worst idea, just going to the border without the schengen visa, spending time and money just for nothing. I haven't heard so far that you could get the visa right at the border. Have you??