Applying for British nationality!

User · Post by **User** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:55 am

Hi All,

I got my ILR last January and i am now eligible for Naturalisation.

I have sorted out all the details / documentation needed as per the application form set, including the 2 referees needing to sign for me.

The only thing i am trying to work out is the IAESOL (initial assesment for ESOL) which i could pass and take that certificate as prrof of my english skills.

My bachelor's degree certificate is from my home country and the whole 3 year course was indeed conducted in English. UNfortunately, none of the mark sheets or the final degree certificate says that the course was conducted in english. Neither does my college levaing certificate or school leaving certificates.

So i was planning to take this initial assessment for ESOL which might be a qucik test and take that certificate and use it for applying for my natianality application.

What do you guys suggest?

I tried sending out a request letter to my university/college asking them to send me a letter saying the course was conducted in english, but i am yet to hear back from them. I guess the letter would have gone to their waste-bin.

I live in Manchester - is there any college that does this intial level aseesment for ESOL?

Any other tips would also be wonderful.

I need to get this applied by the end of this month - so any quick information will help.

regards.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:14 pm

User,

Good to hear from you again! I assume you have read the rules and are not a native speaker of English, meaning you can't use a notary to certify your English. Is your certificate itself in English? Perhaps your university has a website, syllabus, or other promotional materials saying that their degree is offered in English? If you can provide some of this as backup, I think it would be helpful.

You may also wish to say that you have previously qualified under HSMP. You may recall that HSMP requires that you speak English unless you can show that your chosen profession doesn't require knowledge of English. Since that wasn't the case, you obviously convinced the HSMP caseworker that your English was sufficient for HSMP. That should count for something.

I would expect that if the information that you provide is not good enough, they will just ask for more documentation or proof rather than rejecting your application. If you send it in before April you will save some cash.

BTW, have you considered the Nationality Checking service? This may not be so convenient for Manchester, but it has gotten good reviews so far.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

Joseph

User · Post by **User** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:41 pm

Cheers Joseph

No! I am not a native English speaker.
Yes. My degree certificate is in English (It also has a local language version of the whole text, but it is followed with the English version of the Degree text).

Also, all of my mark sheets for the entire 3 year course is in English only.

You are correct on the HSMP thing. They just had my Degree certificate and a certificate from UK NARIC saying that my degree was UK Degree equivalent. Maybe I can put all these together in a cover note and see whether they accept it.
But from the guidance notes, they seem to be pretty strict with exact 4 different options to prove the english skills. So i don't know if they will accept my points that i can put in a cover letter along with my application.

Yes. I will be taking a day off and going to London and use this Nationality Checking service. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I think its worth the time and money I will put-in to go to london and use this service.

I am expecting to do this around 24th of March

Cheers. Certainly, I will keep you guys informed. Thanks a lot.

regards.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:54 pm

User

I think you will be fine with the documentation (including HSMP) and a cover letter. Good luck!

Joseph

User · Post by **User** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:01 pm

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:12 pm

User wrote:Ta!

I am sure if you approach the whole process with the same meticulous planning as your HSMP renewal 2 years ago then there wont be any problem

All the best

User · Post by **User** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:32 pm

Cheers Chess

I am sure its all going to be smooth.

Waiting for March 24th...

regards.

Post by **John** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:21 pm

User, I think that if you can't provide proof that your degree course was conducted in English it will be safer to get a certificate signed by a teacher at a language school certifying that you are at at least ESOL Entry 3 level.

The problem is this. If they don't think that you have dealt with the language aspect IND may simply return the naturalisation application to you. Ordinarily that would just delay you a bit but now you are facing the increased fees for applications that IND receive on or after 1st April 2005.

So, even just as an "insurance policy" better to get yourself rated. A quick look at Google has thrown up :-

Manchester Language School

-: and there are no doubt lots of other places able to give you a quick test and then certify your English ability.

User · Post by **User** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:52 pm

Cheers John.

I spoke to them and no one seems to have a clue of what Initial assessment for EOSL is all about.

In fact one teacher asked me if whether it wa a qualification for foreigners to get Bristish passport.

I think its going to be a very painful process to educate them as to what EOSL is all about and finally get the certificate.

I showed them this whole document and they are still not clear what i was talking about.

This is the document I showed them:

"ANNEX D - delivering skills for life.pdf" from the Home office web site.

User · Post by **User** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:03 pm

Hi John,

What key words you tried with in Google?

I tried several, including AIESOL, ESOL, language school, etc.

regards.

Post by **John** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:38 pm

User, that Annex D is clearly the right one. At the end of it is the form that needs to be completed. That form can be completed by any specialist language teacher, or indeed any graduate schoolteacher or university teacher.

Google? I just did a search on :-

Google search on Manchester language school

User · Post by **User** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:13 am

Hi John - I got an appointment with one academy that is approveed for this purpose

They don't seem to say anything about what the test itself will be like. But they said i will get teh certificate the same day

All that i got to know about the test was, there will be a 40 minutes written test and 20 minutes spoken test. I am worried if i have to read up on some materials etc. for taking this test - "one hour" of test - its got to be something that needs to be prepared for!!!!

Do you have any guess or ideas what these test will try to measure.

Anybody out there - any ideas?

regards.

Post by **John** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:17 pm

All I can say is that ESOL Entry 3 level is pretty basic. At least as regards your writing ability, you are very clearly well above that. So I really don't think you have anything to worry about.

User · Post by **User** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:15 pm

User · Post by **User** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:18 am

Hi All - I have managed to get a reply from my college where i did my Bachelor's degree (3 years degree).

The college has sent me a letter saying like so:

I hereby certify that Mr. XXX (as it appears in my passport), date of birth
xxx (as in my passport), did the Bachelor's degree course
under University of XXX) in this (XXX) college during the years 19XX - 19XX.

The medium of instruction that he had for this 3 years degree course
was "English".

Signed by... the principal of the college.

The above certification is given in the college's letter head paper (with all college details, symbol et.c - i.e. their formal letter head) and signed by the principal of the college.

The above letter does not mention my residence address though.

I take it it's OK for the purpose of the english language skill meeting requirements.

Please let me know if the above is OK.

regards.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:13 am

User
I think it is perfect. Send it in well before April 1. Best of luck!
Joseph

User · Post by **User** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:49 am

Cheers Joseph! I will send it by 24th March.

Ta!

regards.

User · Post by **User** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:43 am

Hi all - just a quciky. The application forms (nationality) is in colour.
If i print it out in black and white and fill it up, would it be OK or does it have to be in its original Colour version?

Ta!

regards.

User · Post by **User** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:28 pm

Also i noted that irrespective of what print you use (Colour or B & W), in the page Residence requirements (Section 3), the table area background is getting printed with a dark background (where we list the absences out of UK) -looks like that's the design of that page by HO.

I will be using the Black pen, so i will write as much darker as possible, but I guess that should be OK isn't it?

Ta!

regards.

User · Post by **User** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:37 pm

Hi John - based on your wife's experience, can you tell me what all documentation you sent alog with the application.

I am self-employed for the past 2.5 years and previously i was employed.

I had 3 points (did 36 in a 30 mile zone

) in my UK driving license but that had been taken off since this January (after 4 years of it remaining in my license).
So ia m not quoting that in my application since it does not even remain in my license paper counterpart. Am i correct here?

Do i need to take any special documents for my self-employed status:

I ma taking, all of my 5 years P-60 (2000 - 2004) and my current salary slip (P-?) issued by my accountants to me for hte year 2004-2005.

Also all copies of my personal ITax returns since 2000-2004 and my corporate tax return for the last year.

I am aslo taking my recent VAT payment slip and VAT registration documents and all of my company documents including:

1. Company registration
2. Appointment as director

I don't know what else to take.

Do i need a letter from Inland revenue saying i have paid all my Tax / NI dues till date? If so, i will have to apply for such a letter and then wait an dapply for my nationality after April - since it iwll take some time to get such a letter

Any suggestions? Please.

Ta!

regards.

Post by **John** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:37 pm

User, I think you need to read the guidance notes! In particular the Guide AN(NEW). You are in great danger of supplying far more information for the naturalisation than you need to send in.

As regards the speeding conviction, I think it all comes down to whether the conviction is "spent" or not. I think that in respect of any offence involving a fine a conviction is spent after five years. If that is wrong then no doubt someone will post the correct information. (I would like to download a copy of the Guide AN(NEW) but the IND website is (again) down at the moment. I recollect that the guide has information about spent convictions.)

For naturalisation you don't need to supply any of the tax-related information that you mention. But you do of course need to answer the questions in Section 4 of the application form AN(NEW). IND will make their own enquiries about your tax status. I suspect that they have a link into the Inland Revenue computer system.

You say "I am also taking my ..... " Taking? No, all naturalisation applications need to be posted, even if you do happen to live within easy walking distance of the IND office in Liverpool that receives naturalisation applications. Of course send by Special Delivery.

Exactly what supporting documentation is required will depend upon a person's personal circumstances. On my wife's form she was not just applying for naturalisation for herself, but also registration as British for her daughter, that is, my step-daughter. The only evidence we supplied was :-

the passports for my wife and step-daughter
my British passport (needed to show that my wife is married to British Citizen, me, and therefore proving that she could apply after three years rather than five years)
Our marriage certificate
Home Office letters for wife and step-daughter issued when they got their ILR visas
my step-daughter's birth certificate (of course showing her parent's names)
my wife's first husband's death certificate (in order to show why he could not sign the consent to my step-daughter becoming a British Citizen)

And that is the whole list ..... absolutely nothing like forms P60 etc etc.. So, "Do i need a letter from Inland revenue saying i have paid all my Tax / NI dues till date?". No, totally unnecessary. But do note my wife applied before the language requirement came in, so anyone applying now obviously needs to deal with that aspect.

User · Post by **User** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:51 pm

Cheers John. That was helpful indeed.

Couple of clarifications:

1. I had this 3 points for speeding (as described earlier) but that stayed in my licese for 4 years only and it has been taken off recently and the DVLA even re-issued my driving license counterpart now showing no points at all.

Now that even DVLA has taken it off after 4 years (the correct specified period for a speeding points), do i still need to state that I "had" some points in license a couple of months back, since the points were taken off in January 2005 - two months before i apply for my naturalisation.
Why five years i don't understand when even DVLA keeps the points in my license only for 4 years. With those 3 points taken off my license, it should be considered "spent", why is IND giving a new meaning to this when even DVLA does not give treat it as points anymore, i just don't understand.

The point is: Why is IND saying 5 years when DVLA only keeps it for 4 years.

2. I was going to use this Nationality checking service in London where i could personally take my application and documentation and they will certify these documents and send it by special devlivery to IND, so i don't have to send it by post.

I have even planned to take a day off from work and go to london to use this service.

Please clarify what you think on the above.

Is the nationality checking service not available for people who don;t live around london?
Pleaes clarify. I live in Manchester.

Ta!

regards.

sfgirl · Post by **sfgirl** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:22 pm

User wrote:
The point is: Why is IND saying 5 years when DVLA only keeps it for 4 years.

I was going to use this Nationality checking service in London where i could personally take my application and documentation and they will certify these documents and send it by special devlivery to IND, so i don't have to send it by post.

I have even planned to take a day off from work and go to london to use this service.

Is the nationality checking service not available for people who don;t live around london?
Pleaes clarify. I live in Manchester.

I just received naturalisation in December so have a couple of possibly useful comments. The first is that you must come clean on any police matters - they will check. It doesn't matter whether you think it should be "spent" - go with their rules and explain everything. I can't believe that a few point on your license will disqualify you but they will do a police check and lying will.

The opportunity to apply in person is new but all the posts I've seen say that it's brilliant and it means that you don't have to send your documents away. If you're going to take a day off work then travel to one of these centers. Alternatively, if you're going to apply by post then spend the £3.25 and send it by special delivery, why do you need an agency to help you?

User · Post by **User** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:43 pm

Hi

I am not trying to lie here. you got me wrong. All that I wanted to clarify here was, even though the 3 points have been taken off my license now, should i still say that i "had" 3 points?
Why are you claiming that i am trying to lie! I just don't get it.

Thanks anyway.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:46 pm

User,

Regarding taxes I see your point. Given that you are not on PAYE, it may be helpful to show that you are current on your Class 2 NI contributions. You could write a brief statement to that effect with a copy of your bank statement with direct debit or a copy of your latest paid Inland Revenue Class 2 NI invoice if you are not on direct debit. John is right that you don't have to worry about already filed tax returns, as they will have access to that information. But your latest Class 2 NI contributions may not be posted yet. I recall that the AN instructions asked for some more backup from self employed people.

As you know very well from your HSMP renewal "inquisition", unlike PAYE where everything is done for you, you are "on your own" when self employed and have much more opportunities to "mess up" or "fiddle" which is why they will look more closely.

For example, are you or your business required to be registered for and pay VAT? If so, I think this will be checked. If you are paying VAT, it probably would help if you gave them your VAT registration number to show that you are paying VAT on a timely basis. Just a suggestion.

I suggest you go to Wandsworth's Nationality Checking Service. They don't care if you don't live there. Their website is pretty informative:

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/Home/Commu ... ervice.htm

As for the forms issue, I'm hoping someone else can help. I'm waiting for the answers too.

Joseph

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Applying for British nationality!

Applying for British nationality!