Who got the residency in EU countries under the chen ruling?

uk511528288 · Post by **uk511528288** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:08 am

Regarding the residency for the parents of a minor EEA national,the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration gave me an answer which is is full of contradictions.
Referring to your e- mail sent 11.june.2009

If your daughter is an Irish citizen you as parents are also covered and have rights according to the EEA regulation. This means that you can travel within the Schengen area and come to Norway to apply for residence permit along with your daughter.

However, to apply for a residence permit you as the parents are the main persons and your daughter can therefore apply for family reunification with you, but not the other way around. Since your daughter is young she can not have an individual permit. This means that if you are not citizens of the European Union, you (one of you or both) have to apply as skilled worker or specialist after the third world regulationï¿½and not the EEA regulation.

Put simply, you can all come here to apply and travelling to Norway along with your daughter you are all covered by the EEA regulation. However, to get a work permit/residence permit you can not apply after the EEA regulation, since your daughter is too young to get an independent permit after the EEA regulation.

Please seewww.udi.nofor more information, or write us back if you have further questions regarding this.

Kind regards

Marthe Gerhardsen

rÃ¥dgiver

e-mail:arbeidsgiverservice@udi.no

Telefon direkte: + 47 23 30 92 03

Utlendingsdirektoratet (UDI), Oppholdsavdelingen,EÃ˜S-enheten
Postboks 8108 Dep, 0032 Oslo
Telefon: 23 35 15 00
The Norwegian Directorate of Immigration (UDI), Managed Migration Department
P.O. Box 8108 Dep, N-0032 Oslo, Norway
Telephone: +47 23 35 15 00
www.udi.no

Does Norway have to obey EEA regulatuion? I really don't understand what they are saying.

Post by **vinny** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:22 pm

See also Chen case and, for example, UK's implementation.

residencyineea · Post by **residencyineea** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:45 am

Regarding the same matter,I also got the reply from the Icelandic Directorate of Immigration.They told me they are not EU countries and they don't need to implement all EU directives.

Dear Jacky

A minor, who is a citizen of a EEA-country, cannot take up residency in Iceland since the EEA-agreement does not provide the minor with such right. According to para 1, Article 36 of the Icelandic Act on Foreigners No 96/2002 citizens of EEA or EFTA countries can take up residence in Iceland for more than 3 months if he/she is a) an employee covered by the EEA agreement, b) a private businessman or provider or purchaser of services in Iceland, c) has a regular and secured income and is covered by sufficient medical insurance, or c) is a registered student of a recognized educational institution and is covered by a medical insurance.

Since the EEA citizen you are referring to in your question is only 6 years old, he/she cannot take up residency in Iceland without a specific permit to do so. Such permit could only be granted if the childÂ´s parents were legal residents of Iceland. In your case the parents would have to apply for, and be granted, a residence permit in Iceland and then the child could be granted a residence permit as a dependant of itÂ´s parents.

Please be advised that the EEA-agreement does not require the EEA-states to implement all EU directives. You are also advised that the Chen ruling No. C200/02 by the ECJ covers only the right of the child to take up residency in an EU-member state but not in an EEA-member state since the latter is not the subject matter of the case.

Respectfully,

HreiÃ°ar EirÃksson

LÃ¶gfrÃ¦Ã°ingur/Lawyer

ForstÃ¶Ã°umaÃ°ur Ã¡ leyfasviÃ°i/Head of Department

Ãštlendingastofnun/The Icelandic Directorate of Immigration

SkÃ³gahlÃÃ° 6

105 ReykjavÃk

Ã

frankfurt · Post by **frankfurt** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:56 am

The Chen-case from the European Court of Justice is at part of the European rules for free movement in the EU. But it seems that few EU countries fully obey EU law.I juat received the e-mail from Latvian embassy in Finland.

Dear Lee

According to the legislation of the Republic of Latvia Cabinet of Ministers Regulation No. 586 of 18 July 2006 "Procedure for Entry into Latvia and Residence by Citizens and their Family Members of Member States of the European Union, the European Economic Area, and the Swiss Confederation" (info: http://www.mfa.gov.lv/en/service/visas/EU/) a "family member of a Union citizen" is:
the spouse of a Union citizen
the direct descendant of a Union citizen or his spouse who is under the age of 21 and is a dependant of the Union citizen or his spouse
the direct relative of a Union citizen or his spouse in the ascending line, who is a dependant of the Union citizen or his spouse
a person who is the ward of a Union citizen or their spouse and who has been part of a common household with the Union citizen in their former country of domicile
According to information by Ministry of Interior Office of Citizenship and Migration Affairs of the Republic of Latvia, if your son would be major, then you could apply for residence in Latvia, but until that residence in Latvia cannot be granted on the basis of your minor son who is EU citizen, since she is your dependant. Precise information: http://www.pmlp.gov.lv/en/kontakti/?auth_unit=66

Best regards,
Consular Section of the Embassy
Armfeltintie 10
00150 Helsinki
Tel. 09 476 472 66
Fax. 09 476 472 88
www.latvia.fi

Post by **Obie** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:55 am

The Icelandic reply is correct but the Latvian are wrong.

Iceland is an EEA country and hence are not obliged to adhere to ruling made in the court against an EU country (UK).

Latvia however is an EU country, and hence are totally obliged to all the EU courts ruling as it is superior to their national laws.

If you want to apply in Latvia, i will suggest you provide them with evidence of the Chen ruling, as they don't seem to be aware of same.

They are having problem with Surrinder Singh, Never mind a complicated one like Chen.

sweden888 · Post by **sweden888** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:57 am

From the Netherlands,

Dear Sir or Madam,

First I apologise for our late answer to your question. With reference to your e-mail I hereby inform you as follows.

I understand from your email that you would like to know if the parents of a minor EU/EEA national can get the residency in the Netherlands under the chen ruling.

Family members of EU citizens can be (non) EU family members in the ascending (parents or grandparents) or descending line (children or grandchildren) of an EU citizen. However if for example a parent of a minor EU child would like to apply for a verification against EU Community Law , the parents will have to proof (among other things) that they can be considered as depended upon the minor child and has proof of health insurance with coverage in the Netherlands so that the parent will not make use of public means in the Netherlands.However, this is rather unlikely because a minor child can not be considered to financially support you and your wife. So your application for the residency in the Netherlands will be refused.

I hope to have informed you sufficiently.

Yours sincerely,

Mike Renma

Medewerker Voorlichting/Information Officer
Immigratie- en Naturalisatiedienst/
Immigration and Naturalisation Service
Afdeling Voorlichting/Department of Information
Postbus/P.O. Box 3211, 2280 GE Rijswijk
The Netherlands
Telefoon/telephone: 0900-1234561 (or from outside the Netherlands:
+ 31-20-889 3045)
(maandag t/m vrijdag: 9.00-17.00)
Telefax: +31 (0) 70-779 4968
E-mail: voorlichting@ind.minjus.nl
Internet: www.ind.nl

meihuamgchen · Post by **meihuamgchen** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:30 pm

Now I don't believe that most EU countries will comply with the EU ruling,
this is the answer of The Ministry of Justice and Home affairs given concerning the chen-ruling

Dear Sir/Madam,
Your e-mail of the 18 June 2009 refers.
In this connection kindly note that Malta is a small island and the
number of jobs that could be available at any given time is rather a
limited one. I am to state also that first preference to such jobs
would be offered to Maltese citizens and citizens of EU Member States
since Malta is a member of the European Union. Hence, it is very
difficult, to say the least, for third country nationals to find
employment in Malta.
Having said that you may wish, nevertheless, to contact the Employment
and Training Corporation (ETC) on e-mail address: <mailto:etc@gov.mt>
etc@gov.mtwhich corporation is responsible for all employment matters
in Malta.
If, eventually, you are issued with an employment licence you could then
apply for a uniform residence permit which allows you to reside in
Malta.
As regards courses that you may follow at the University of Malta please
contact the University Authorities on e-mail address:comms@um.edu.mt
<mailto:etc@gov.mt>
<mailto:comms@um.edu.mt>
Regards
J Treeby Ward
Adviser
Citizenship & Expatriate Affairs

From: Mamo Antonia at MFA
Sent: 18 June 2009 09:50
To: Info at MFA
Cc: Citizenship at MJHA
Subject: RE: chen ruling by the ECJ -application for residence permit
Email has been forwarded to the Citizenship and Expatriate Affairs
department

From: IOM Malta
Sent: 18 June 2009 09:40
To: Info at MFA
Cc: PISANI Maria
Subject: chen ruling by the ECJ -application for residence permit

Dear Sir or Madam,
I have a request concerning the chen-ruling (C200/02) from the ECJ
http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/f ... lljur&jurc
dj=jurcdj&jurtpi=jurtpi&jurtfp=jurtfp&numaff=200/02&nomusuel=&docnodecis
ion=docnodecision&allcommjo=allcommjo&affint=affint&affclose=affclose&al
ldocrec=alldocrec&docor=docor&docav=docav&docsom=docsom&docinf=docinf&al
ldocnorec=alldocnorec&docnoor=docnoor&radtypeord=on&newform=newform&docj
=docj&docop=docop&docnoj=docnoj&typeord=ALL&domaine=&mots=&resmax=100&Su
bmit=Rechercher

Is this ruling implemented in Malta as decided by the ECJ and can
therefore non-Eu-national Parents with a EU-national child apply without
problems for a residency permit in Malta?

Thank you very much in advance.
Sincerely,
Tabea Richter

That meant we can't even get the residency in Malta on the basis of self-sufficent means.No employment licence ,no being allow to stay in Malta.

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:15 am

sweden888 wrote:From the Netherlands,

...

I understand from your email that you would like to know if the parents of a minor EU/EEA national can get the residency in the Netherlands under the chen ruling.

Family members of EU citizens can be (non) EU family members in the ascending (parents or grandparents) or descending line (children or grandchildren) of an EU citizen. However if for example a parent of a minor EU child would like to apply for a verification against EU Community Law , the parents will have to proof (among other things) that they can be considered as depended upon the minor child and has proof of health insurance with coverage in the Netherlands so that the parent will not make use of public means in the Netherlands.However, this is rather unlikely because a minor child can not be considered to financially support you and your wife. So your application for the residency in the Netherlands will be refused.

The Dutch answer is fully wrong.

As an immigration lawyer I handled several cases like Chen successfully in The Netherlands. And in Belgium likewise (with the advantage in Belgium the parent can start working immediately after filing the application, and so proof the necessary financial means).

First answer to the application usually is negative, as nitwits like mr. Renma are employed by the immigration authority, but appeals against such decisions could be withdrawn before the court got a chance to review them. In the end an expert looked at the cases and the father, third country national, got his residence with the EU child.

.

meihuamgchen · Post by **meihuamgchen** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:54 am

Mr Prawo,could you please tell us if the parents got work permission in the cases like Chen you handled in the Netherlands?

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:55 am

meihuamgchen wrote:Mr Prawo,could you please tell us if the parents got work permission in the cases like Chen you handled in the Netherlands?

No, they did not during the application period.
And I lost a court case about this.

However, later his rights were recognised, which means he can (and could from the beginning) work.

Now he is suing the government for the loss of salary during his months of inactivity.

Are you planning to come over and do the Chen thing?
If so, it will be enough to prove there will be enough funds to live on, for instance a guarantee of the other parent or a third party.

.

meihuamgchen · Post by **meihuamgchen** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:20 pm

Can both parents get 5-years resident card with work permission in the netherlands? Both the Netherlands and Belgium treat the parents of a minor EU national as the family member of an EU national?

zsxue · Post by **zsxue** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:08 pm

Does anybody think Uk implement the chen ruling incorrectly? I think that UK should treat the parents of a minor EU national as the family member of an EU national and allow the parents to work. If somebody challenge to the UK home office,I think they have to give in once again.

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:41 pm

meihuamgchen wrote:Can both parents get 5-years resident card with work permission in the netherlands? Both the Netherlands and Belgium treat the parents of a minor EU national as the family member of an EU national?

If both parents are third country nationals and the child is an EU citizen this should be possible. However I am not aware of an precedents, so take care.

I would suggest to arrange it all first for one parent and only after the successful finalisation for the second one.

frankfurt · Post by **frankfurt** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:23 am

I got the answer to my question about the family member of an EU national from Frech immigration authorities:
Dear sir/Madam,
"Family members" are parents(in case of an EU citizen under 21 years of age who is subsisted by such family member and with whom he lives in the common household), and children under 21 years of both the EU citizen or their non-EU spouse.
Yours sincerely
Nishi Ramlal

Does this mean that France implements the chen ruling?

19730201 · Post by **19730201** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:11 am

The answer from Austria regarding the chen ruling:
Dear Mr, Mrs.

Unfortunately it isn't possible to get a residence permit, because ones child is Eu- citizen. In this case your residency would be dependent on the child, but a child can't have an income, which is condition to bring the family to Austria.

Best regards,
Christiane BÃ¶hm
Customer Service Center
--------------------------------------
City Administration of Vienna
Municipal Department 35
Immigration, Citizenship, Registry Offices
A- 1200 Wien, Dresdner Str. 93
Phone: +43 1 4000 3535
Fax: +43 1 4000 99 35220
E-Mail: service@ma35.wien.gv.at

http://www.wien.gv.at/english/administration
www.einwanderung.wien.at
www.staatsbuergerschaft.wien.at
www.standesamt.wien.at
Customer Service Center:
A- 1200 Vienna, Dresdner Str. 93
Hotline: +43 1 4000 3535
Email: service@ma35.wien.gv.at

chenruling · Post by **chenruling** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:49 am

It seems that no EU countries will obey the chen ruling.I also received
the reply from Hungary.

Dear Sir or Madam,

First I apologise for our late answer to your question. With reference to your e-mail I hereby inform you as follows.

According to the legistlation of Act I of 2007, on the Admission and Residence of Persons with the Right of Free Movement and Residence:

Third-country nationals accompanying an EEA national or joining an EEA national who reside in the territory of the Republic of Hungary, who are family members, may enter the territory of the Republic of Hungary with a valid travel document and with a valid visa.

EEA nationals holding a valid travel document or a personal identification document, and family members who are third-country nationals holding a valid travel document shall have the right of residence not exceeding three months from the date of entry for as long as the beneficiaries of the right of residence do not become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the Republic of Hungary.

All EEA nationals shall have the right of residence for a period of longer than three months if they:

a) intend to engage in some form of gainful employment;

b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the Republic of Hungary during their period of residence, and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover for health-care services as prescribed in specific other legislation, or if they assure that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family for such services as required by statutory provisions; or

c) are enrolled at an educational institution governed by the act on public education or the act on higher education, for the principal purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training and adult education if offering an accredited curriculum, and they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the Republic of Hungary during their period of residence, and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover for health-care services as prescribed in specific other legislation, or if they assure that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members for such services as required by statutory provisions.

Unfortunately it isn't possible to get a residence permit, because ones child is Eu- citizen. In this case your residency would be dependent on the child, but a child can't have an income, which is condition to bring the family to Hungary.

Best regards,

dr. LAKATOS Andrea

Ministry of Justice and Law Enforcement

Department of Cooperation in Justice and Home Affairs and Migration

H-1055 Budapest, Kossuth Lajos tÃ©r 4. Hungary

Phone: + 36 1 441 3580

Fax: +36 1 441 3599

Email: lakatosa@irm.gov.hu

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:35 am

What are you going to do about it?

I suggest you send these answers to the European Commission as a formal complaint for not acting in accordance with the citizens directive.

I did something similar in the '80s concerning the free visa. It took some time but was effective in the end as all then member states promised the EC to change their wrong practice.

bluelagoon8 · Post by **bluelagoon8** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:43 am

The stupid answer from the Office of Border and Alien Police of Slovakia regarding the chen ruling.

VEC: InformÃ¡cia k pobytu zvÃ½hodnenÃ©ho cudzinca na ÃºzemÃ SR â€“ zaslanie

Ãšradu hraniÄ

noruling · Post by **noruling** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:44 am

Can anybody translate the following response from Spain for me ?

Estimado/a Sr/a.:

Como continuaciÃ³n a nuestra comunicaciÃ³n de 13 de julio, le transcribimos la contestaciÃ³n remitida por la COMISARÃ

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:17 am

[quote="bluelagoon8"]The stupid answer from the Office of Border and Alien Police of Slovakia regarding the chen ruling.

VEC: InformÃ¡cia k pobytu zvÃ½hodnenÃ©ho cudzinca na ÃºzemÃ SR â€“ zaslanie

Ãšradu hraniÄ

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:22 am

Not great at Spanish but here goes.....

art. 2, including family members

citizen of a Member State of the European Union or another State

Agreement on the European Economic Area.

Your case is not is not considered under this, as it is

refers to the parents who living by the

EU citizen (Child). You indicated in your letter, your child is under
age, which detracts from this principle.. "???? What I think they mean is no under EU law your child is an EU citizen but your right to live and work in Spain does not derive from that.

Basically what all the others are saying you can't get a work permit there!

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Who got the residency in EU countries under the chen ruling?

Who got the residency in EU countries under the chen ruling?