Russian wife on 2 yr spouse visa - Bulgaria visa?

[plum2pudd]

Hi all

THis is turning into a minefield and I would appreciate any help here. My Russian wife is living in UK with me on 2 year spouse visa (not indefinite leave to remain). I have a house in Bulgaria and we want to visit later this year. The Bulgarian Embassy website has this paragraph:

"Family members of EU citizen, who do not have the nationality of the EU Member State, are entitled to the same rights as the EU citizens, for their travel to Bulgaria. This only applies to those having residence in an EU country and travelling together, or going to Bulgaria to join their family member (s) who is (are) already in the country. While travelling alone such family members have the right to enter, but require a visa to be issued by the respective Bulgarian Embassy abroad. The visa is issued free of charge on the presentation of a valid passport, application and proof of family ties (Marriage Certificate or Birth Certificate, legalized and translated into the official language of an EU member country). Family members, travelling together with the EU citizen does not require a visa, but should be in a position to present on request at the border a Marriage Certificate or Birth Certificate, legalized and translated into the official language of an EU member country."

I believe that this paragraph used to specify that it only applied to family members with ILR but it no longer says this. I would have thought from reading this that my wife does NOT need visa to enter Bulgaria. However, the Bulgarian Embassy is saying that my wife must get a visa as she does not have ILR. Anyone else had this exact problem?! I'm not too interested in what "should" or "might" be the case but just looking for facts about eligibility of nonEU spouse on 2 year UK spouse visa to visit other EU countries.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

THis is turning into a minefield and I would appreciate any help here.

Is there some prior context that I am missing?


Do you have a link to where you found this? Let me help you pull this apart.

Family members of EU citizen, who do not have the nationality of the EU Member State, are entitled to the same rights as the EU citizens, for their travel to Bulgaria.

This seems pretty good. So she has the same rights as you.

This only applies to those having residence in an EU country and travelling together, or going to Bulgaria to join their family member (s) who is (are) already in the country.

You will be traveling together I assume.

While travelling alone such family members have the right to enter, but require a visa to be issued by the respective Bulgarian Embassy abroad. The visa is issued free of charge on the presentation of a valid passport, application and proof of family ties (Marriage Certificate or Birth Certificate, legalized and translated into the official language of an EU member country).

Not relevant unless she is travelling alone and is not coming to meet you in Bulgaria.

Family members, travelling together with the EU citizen does not require a visa, but should be in a position to present on request at the border a Marriage Certificate or Birth Certificate, legalized and translated into the official language of an EU member country."

Always a good idea to do in any case. But in this case a lot easier than getting a visa.

I believe that this paragraph used to specify that it only applied to family members with ILR but it no longer says this. I would have thought from reading this that my wife does NOT need visa to enter Bulgaria. However, the Bulgarian Embassy is saying that my wife must get a visa as she does not have ILR. Anyone else had this exact problem?! I'm not too interested in what "should" or "might" be the case but just looking for facts about eligibility of nonEU spouse on 2 year UK spouse visa to visit other EU countries.

When did they say this bit about ILR to you?

The bottom line is you have a right to travel with your wife. She can be required to have a visa, but in this case it seems she is not.

[plum2pudd]

Thanks for that reply EU Guru! Yes all your conclusions echo mine precisely BUT the Bulgarian Embassy is saying she must have a visa unless she has ILR.

This was their reply on 10/06/2011 to my wife "If you have an indefinite residence for the UK and you will travel together with your husband you don’t need a visa.

Otherwise you need one and you can apply for it from Monday to Friday from 9.30 am to 1.30 pm.

Required visa documents:

passport
copy of the picture page of the passport
copy of the Uk visa page
application form
one passport photo
copy of the marriage certificate
cipy of the husban’s passport
copy of the document for ownership
tickets reservations
travel insurance


The visa procedure takes 10 days and it is free of charge."


One further question- our flight is via Germany where we will be in transit area for 30mins. Presume no visa required there?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/ is not definitive, but is worth noting. I made up details of your trip, so you should go through the process yourself, but I get the results

Visa required.

Visa Exemptions
A max. stay of 90 days, holders of a "family member" residence card issued by United Kingdom to a family member (spouse, legal partner or dependents under the age of 21) of a national of an EEA Member State or Switzerland, provided travelling:
- with the EEA national or national of Switzerland; or
- to join the EEA national or national of Switzerland.

If holding another type of permanent residence and the family member is accompanied by the EEA or Swiss national, the family member must provide documentation, such as a marriage or birth certificate to prove the relationship.

Visa Issuance
Prior to arrival: please contact the nearest representation of Bulgaria.

The following should be taken into account even if holding a Visa:
All visitors must hold visible means of support or onward/return tickets and all other documents required for their final destination AND a valid health insurance. Additionally, visitors must fill out an Immigration Register Card of Foreigner on arrival presented together with passport or other accepted travel document, if staying up to three months.

The max. stay allowed under a visa exemption is within a period of 6 months.

Certain Visa regulations apply as follows:
Non-compliance with entry/transit requirements incl. forged documents) can result in fines for the transporting carrier varying between BGL 10.000 and BGL 60.000 and/or deportation to country of origin. Detention costs are at carrier's expense.

Read also http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... -bulgaria/
and http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/
The second link does not have any quotes directly from Bulgarian law, but the MRAX case applies in Bulgaria as well.

Which airline(s) are you flying? And how soon?

[plum2pudd]

Thanks for that again. Well "Family residence permit" - bit vague - is that what 2 year spouse visa is?

Flying Lufthansa and not until September.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Be very careful with reading the words. It does not mention a "residence permit". It instead says:

Visa Exemptions
A max. stay of 90 days, holders of a "family member" residence card issued by United Kingdom to a family member (spouse, legal partner or dependents under the age of 21) of a national of an EEA Member State or Switzerland, provided travelling:

Unless you live and work in an EU country different than the UK, your wife will never have a Residence Card. But if you move to Germany/Bulgaria/France/Poland/... to work, then she will be issued a "Residence Card for non-EU family of an EU citizen"

[plum2pudd]

Appreciate very much your tiem taken to respond to my dilemma but I am still no nearer to any sort of resolution and am just getting more and more confused now. I can't understand either whether she will now need a visa to transit through Germany!

I went to site you told me about and plugged in our details and got this paragraph about Germany:

"Visa Exemptions

Those, irrespective of nationality, for a max. stay of 90 days, holding "family member" residence permit issued by United Kingdom to a family member of an EEA national or national of Switzerland, provided travelling with or travelling to join the EEA national or national of Switzerland. "

Ok so guess she does need one according to this as she does not have residence permit or does she?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think typically you do not need a visa to TRANSIT Germany. You simply do not do a passport control between getting off your first flight and getting on the second flight. Lufthansa can tell you.

You can in any case get a German visa for free by post from the German embassy. They are quite professional.

That said, I think the German border guards are very well trained and understand the free movement rights of Eu citizens and their accompanying non-EU family members. So even if you do not have a visa and want to go out of the transit area for a bite to eat, you should have no problem even if you do not have the "required" visa, so long as you are carrying your marriage certificate.

Remember also that there are the visa departments of embassies whose job it is to issue a visa to anyone they possibly can. And then there are border guards. And unfortunately they do not always have the same view of the requirements (they work for different departments, among other things).

[plum2pudd]

Once again thanks for giving up time on a Sunday to reply to this for me!

Yes that is my view about Germany too. This site would imply that she does not need visa to transite through Germany http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Infos ... ?nn=479790. However German Embassy website does not list Dusseldorf as having international transit area (how can 2 official sites have differing information?!!) - http://www.london.diplo.de/Vertretung/l ... seite.html

I'm still in the dark about Bulgaria though. It appears that in theory she SHOULD be OK without a visa but it appears that in practice we might have problems if she does not have one without having ILR.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

how can 2 official sites have differing information?

My experience leads me to expect that the embassy web sites will be confused, badly organized and often just wrong. At least with respect to the free movement requirements of non-EU family members of Eu citizens. Pick a member state and look at their embassy web site for Rio, Nairobi, New York, Delhi, London, Baghdad and Beijing: Likely quite different information, but the legal requirements for EU free movement visas are exactly the same in each location.

I think it is getting better with some of the bigger Eu member states, but some of the smaller or less experienced member states still have a way to go.

Is your goal to have the minimal hassle on the day you travel? Then I would get a visa for Bulgaria and for Germany. Then all options are open, including a proper beer outside of Dusseldorf airport.

If your goal is to see how your rights work in practice, then I would (if I were in a similar situation), not get a visa. But I have patience to talk with the border guards, and Stupid and work it through with them. And I do not mind being delayed in case things do not go 100% smoothly.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

http://www.mfa.bg/en/pages/view/1626

The following shall be exempted from the requirement to present an insurance policy:

1. holders of diplomatic and service passports;
2. seamen meeting the criteria of Convention No. 108 of the International Labour Organisation, in case they are submitting a transit visa application;
3. persons who, in view of their social or official status, can be assumed to be insured or to be capable of covering emergency costs themselves;
4. members of the families or households of citizens of the European Union, of the European Economic Area or of the Swiss Confederation.

[Marcus Samuel]

You do not need a transit visa as you are An EU citizen and free travel is permitted including for your non EU family members.

[mertksk]

Did you travel at the end or is it not before September? I am in similar situation (I am non EU and married to a BG citizen) but I live in UK with normal work permit (as I moved here before my wife arrived in UK)

Embassy told me exactly the same thing, I need an ILR to travel without visa and visa procedure for Bulgaria is AWFUL (I hope there is someone from the consulate who is reading this). I can get 2yrs schengen visa from Italy/France in a matter of 2 days (because I am married to a Bulgarian) but Bulgaria can grant me ONLY one year visa which takes 10 working days (in practice total of 3 weeks)...Schengen zone gives me all the comfort because I am married to a Bulgarian, but Bulgaria makes it as difficult as possible when I am married to a Bulgarian...(again I hope someone from consulate is reading this)

I would like to avoid getting BG visa every summer and trying to find out if there are other people who managed to get their spouses/themselves in to BG without visa

[himpatel]

Once again thanks for giving up time on a Sunday to reply to this for me!

Yes that is my view about Germany too. This site would imply that she does not need visa to transite through Germany http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Infos ... ?nn=479790. However German Embassy website does not list Dusseldorf as having international transit area (how can 2 official sites have differing information?!!) - http://www.london.diplo.de/Vertretung/l ... seite.html

I'm still in the dark about Bulgaria though. It appears that in theory she SHOULD be OK without a visa but it appears that in practice we might have problems if she does not have one without having ILR.

Hi plumm2pudd,

I was wondering what happened to your trip to Bulgaria. Did you have to get a visa for your spouse?
I am in a similar situation as yours. I will be a British Citizen in a couple of months, however my wife is on 2 years Spouse Visa. I was planning a ski trip in March to Bulgaria.
Your advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

HP

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I will be a British Citizen in a couple of months, however my wife is on 2 years Spouse Visa. I was planning a ski trip in March to Bulgaria.

It is hard to plan the exact date you will receive your British passport, and Home Office is known to not exactly respect those plans... Maybe you should consider getting visas for Bulgarian trip while you have time....