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evil_grrrl666
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 52
Location: UK
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link, I'll have a good read through it now.
Just to give a quick update. I just spent the best part of 2 hours reading through German versions of the various regulations so I could quote the relevant bits to the woman I'm arguing with in the German Embassy. Just for fun I also had a look at the appointment booking system they employ, apparently there are no applications available during all of October and November and don't accept bookings for December.
This means that their supposed "free alternative" does not actually exist because there are no appointments.
In my latest email to the German Embassy I am of course pointing this out and quoting the ever popular
"Member States shall grant [family members covered by the Directive] every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas must be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure."
In the German version the wording uses a verb that means "to make easy" which of course I specifically refer to; their behaviour is far removed from making things easier for us. Especially now that it turns out there are no appointments available.
I don't know if the lack of appointments is due to some system malfunction though, but I didn't have any other way of checking because their normal phone number only refers to a premium number for appointments (or the online system). And of course I am not shelling out for a premium phone number from my mobile either if I'm already complaining about unjust fees.
Let's see what they say. I've also complained here https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/
I'm not hopeful but I'm too stubborn to pay up. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 6418
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| evil_grrrl666 wrote: | | I'm not hopeful but I'm too stubborn to pay up. |
Good for you. Make it into a game! Enjoy the process. And complain like hell.
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Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
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tina79
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: Schengen Visa - SVK |
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Hi guys,
i seem to facing the same problem and tired of arguing with people on embassy!!!
well here is the story! Im from Slovakia my husband is Turkish. I used to live in UK and when he came to visit my family first time i lived in UK but my prem res was and still is in SVK. So we called the embassy re schengen visa and they told us the followings:
- copy of wife ID
- my husband's passport
- 2 photo
- airticket
- marrige certificate.
they told us is free of charge and they have done it for him within 30 min on the embassy.
Now his visa expired in July this year as he has got it for 7 month. I just contacted my embassy where the lady told me that, becuase I now live in Turkey ( but my per res is still in SKV) we have to pay for his schengen visa and have to provide all the doc that is required for other people, such as : work contract, insurance, bank statement, ect.....
as far as I know and we were informed the first time when he asked for it, they said, whenever he needs to renue it he will get it based on our marrige and will need only the docs that i menationed first time above.
When i emailed to the lady, she had no understanding and she told me does not matter he is my husband, rules applies....
my question is, can someone help me with this? we are living in Turkey now, but i will be going home earlier then my husband for xmas. he will joing me and as i said, my perm res is still registered in Slovakia...
so how does it works?
thanks. |
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EUsmileWEallsmile
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Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 4584
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Schengen Visa - SVK |
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| tina79 wrote: | Hi guys,
i seem to facing the same problem and tired of arguing with people on embassy!!!
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You don't mention which embassy, but freedom of movement does not depend on where one applies. It applies or it doesn't. |
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tina79
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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sorry. we live in Turkey and we are applying for im in my embassy - Slovak.
my perm res is still in Slovakia. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 6418
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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tina79,
Were you working in the UK and you husband was living with you there?
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Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
See blog |
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tina79
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| ı was workıng ın UK and he was ın Turkey that tıme. we are both in Turkey now, but as I said, my perm res is still in Slovakia....so theoreticky they do not know that i live in Turkey now.....as im still registered in my home address. |
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Jambo
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Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 6125
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| tina79 wrote: | sorry. we live in Turkey and we are applying for im in my embassy - Slovak.
my perm res is still in Slovakia. |
In general, member state can impose different rules to their own citizens and the freedom of movement doesn't apply to them (there are exceptions for example if you and your husband were living in another EEA country while you were working).
But nothing stops you from flying to Austria for example and then get to Slovakia. In this case, you can apply to the Austrian embassy and the visa would be free. |
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tina79
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:30 am Post subject: |
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we are alwasy flying to Vienna as we do not have direct flight to Bratislava.
I just dont understand why it would be now different if we I live here with him. Im not turkish citizen yet.
Why I we have to pay and give them 200 docs about my husband. First time when he got it we ask if he will get a new one if it will expire even If i will live here and the lady on the embassy said YES.....i checked the law and regulation, nothing has changed so far.... |
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Jambo
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Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 6125
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: |
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It is different as Turkey is not part of the EEA and the UK is and different rules apply depending if freedom of movement apply or not.
But if you fly to Vienna why bother dealing with the Slovak embassy? Apply through the Austrian embassy and it would be free (and not 200 documents to provide). |
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tina79
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Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: |
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i understand what you saying, but still the question is, he is married to a EEA citizen, so why this hassle about this. on the website it says, either joinging the partner or travel with him/her.....i dont think it is matter that I live in turkey now. i have a brother living in Prague, so if I can even say that i live there temp....what does it make different, they dont check my temp undress. when i lived in UK they did not check it either.
just cannt get it..sorry. |
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Jambo
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Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 6125
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| tina79 wrote: | | i understand what you saying, but still the question is, he is married to a EEA citizen, so why this hassle about this. |
The Slovak authorities don't see you as a EEA national but as a Slovak national. If you were French, then the Slovak authorities would need to treat you as EEA national.
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on the website it says, either joinging the partner or travel with him/her.....
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Which website? This is true to all EEA countries apart from the one your are citizen of.
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i dont think it is matter that I live in turkey now. i have a brother living in Prague, so if I can even say that i live there temp....what does it make different, they dont check my temp undress. when i lived in UK they did not check it either.
just cannt get it..sorry. |
I believe you got lucky last time. They should have charged your husband last time and they should have asked for proof of your work in the UK (it's not just where you are registered. You need to provide proof of working in another country if you wish to be treated as EEA national in your own country). |
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tina79
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Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: |
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http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04/15/requirements-for-a-short-stay-visa-family-of-eu-citizen/
ok i undrestand this, but this is not a family permit.....so just because i do not live in EU country my husband will have to provide all the documents and pay for it? and if i he applies thorugh Austrian it will be free of charge?
i worked and lived in UK over 10years and it saThe visa applicant will be travelling with, or joining, the EU citizen for a visit or permanent move to an EU member state. (If they are going to the “home” country of the EU citizen, then there can be a requirement that the EU citizen had previously lived/worked in a different member state)
so he is still titel to have it free of charge without 200 docs no?
sorry for this but im a bit confused about this all... |
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Jambo
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Joined: 02 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:56 am Post subject: |
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And that is exactly what I say as you are travelling to your "home" country the "home" country can impose restriction on the visa (unless you worked in another country together with your family member. The website is missing this requirement).
But just apply through the Austrian embassy (as you fly to Vienna any way) and it would be free and no 200 documents required (just need marriage certificate). |
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tina79
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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thanks for the advice. will try.
but first time when we applied they did not ask me to prove that i live or work in UK.....they asked my ID and my slovakian home address and he got it for free with only 2 docs attached ( marriage cert + flight ticket). strange. |
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sum1
- thin ice -
Joined: 16 Aug 2012
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| evil_grrrl666 wrote: | | In the German version the wording uses a verb that means "to make easy" which of course I specifically refer to |
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Well, facilitate is probably best translated as 'erleichtern' and vice versa although 'every facility' is more than just 'making it easy'. What I still keep wondering is why the 'join' in the Directive is translated (or is it the other way? Is there an authoritative language version?) into 'nachziehen' instead of the more obvious (to me) 'nachfolgen'. The former suggests to me 'relocate for the purpose to live with (the EEA national)'. |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 6418
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| sum1 wrote: | | evil_grrrl666 wrote: | | In the German version the wording uses a verb that means "to make easy" which of course I specifically refer to |
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Well, facilitate is probably best translated as 'erleichtern' and vice versa although 'every facility' is more than just 'making it easy'. What I still keep wondering is why the 'join' in the Directive is translated (or is it the other way? Is there an authoritative language version?) into 'nachziehen' instead of the more obvious (to me) 'nachfolgen'. The former suggests to me 'relocate for the purpose to live with (the EEA national)'. |
There is a former thread where ca.funke said almost exactly the same thing. You twins?
_________________
Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
See blog |
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Directive/2004/38/EC
Guru
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 6418
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tina79 wrote: | i understand what you saying, but still the question is, he is married to a EEA citizen, so why this hassle about this. on the website it says, either joinging the partner or travel with him/her.....i dont think it is matter that I live in turkey now. i have a brother living in Prague, so if I can even say that i live there temp....what does it make different, they dont check my temp undress. when i lived in UK they did not check it either.
just cannt get it..sorry. |
No problem. Let me try to explain.
Imagine you are from Slovakia. You have never been to any other European country. But you fly off to Canada to work, marry somebody, but then eventually both decide to return to Slovakia. In this case you have still never been to another EU member state. So traditional Slovakian immigration law applies to the entry of your husband.
But if instead of Canada you moved to the UK to work, then EU free movement law applies to you in the UK and also when/if you wish to return to Slovakia. See Singh: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/choosing-to-use-eu-law-instead-of-national-law/
Now your case is a little more complicated. You married your husband after you left the UK, but you were involved with him before you left the UK.
Your job now is to understand your situation, and to explain it and educate the Slovakian visa staff at the embassy.
Or to choose another embassy, such as the Austrian embassy, at which to make the application. To them, since you are not Austrian, the very standard visa rules outlined in http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04/15/requirements-for-a-short-stay-visa-family-of-eu-citizen/ apply.
Since you typically fly to Austria, that is a very natural place to apply.
Does this make a little more sense?
_________________
Directive 2004/38/EC lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members
See blog |
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tina79
Member of Standing
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: |
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hi. yes i understand..but here is still a question ( sorry for this im pregnant and my brain and hormones are mixed now) 
so, i lived in UK, we got married while i was in UK. after 1 year trying to get my husband EEA family member permit with no success we decided to live in Turkey. so I moved over here in May.....
now, as i lived in UK before, what means I have exercised my treaty rights in another EU country, even now that im here with him in Turkey, the rules are apply or not? Does still need to provide all the docs for schengen visa or is it enough for him to give only the basic....
my undrstand was that if a none EEA is married to a EEA national, does not matter if they live in a none EEA country, they can obtain supous visa (schengen, family member) based on their genue married...or am I totaly wrong? |
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sum1
- thin ice -
Joined: 16 Aug 2012
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: | | sum1 wrote: | | evil_grrrl666 wrote: | | In the German version the wording uses a verb that means "to make easy" which of course I specifically refer to |
.
Well, facilitate is probably best translated as 'erleichtern' and vice versa although 'every facility' is more than just 'making it easy'. What I still keep wondering is why the 'join' in the Directive is translated (or is it the other way? Is there an authoritative language version?) into 'nachziehen' instead of the more obvious (to me) 'nachfolgen'. The former suggests to me 'relocate for the purpose to live with (the EEA national)'. |
There is a former thread where ca.funke said almost exactly the same thing. You twins? |
Yes. I am the evil one :-)
But seriously, such differences just stick out and it's not hard to spot them with a little bit of scrutiny. |
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