British Naturalisation for family of 4

[Adventurer101]

Hi guys, I apologise in advance if any of this has been covered, but I have spent the last day going through the various posts and while I have learned a lot from all the others, I cannot find the specific answers I need!

So, to lay the groundwork:

I am in the UK on an Ancestry visa, I am South African, and I arrived late in 2005, my wife and two children arrived mid 2006, all on my visa. As a family we all applied at the same time for ILR which we were granted in May 2012. My kids are both under 18.

I am in the process of completing a family application, which in effect relates to the filling in of 4 forms - 2 x AN(my wife and I) and 2 x MN1(my two kids).

For myself and my wife, form AN most always refers to the last 5 years, which is fine, as we have all the relevant information. We have completed the life in the UK test as well, which was a pre-requisite to ILR anyway.

Where I am getting confused is what information I need to include in the MN1 form for my kids, and I need to make sure it all makes sense, because some of the wording doesn’t tie up with the AN form.

1. I take it that the section the kids are applying under would be Section 3 (1)?
2. Section 3.1 asks which parent is the one who is British by descent?
3. And then section 3.2 asks to provide the parent’s addresses in the UK for the reckonable 3 year period?

Well I am eligible for British citizenship by ancestry but everything I have had to do has always been over 5 years? Or do I just fill in the relevant 3 year section, based on my own application form which will have the last 5 years filled in?

4. In terms of referees, can we use the same referee for all of us if they have known our family for more than 3 years, or do we all have to have different referees?

5. As we have ILR I assume, after reading through the documents list that I do not need to submit salary statements etc as we will send our ILR cards with our application?

6. I also get the impression that BC is not necessarily granted to the children in this situation, or am I reading stuff in where it does not exist? If my application gets approved, then my assumption is we will all 4 of us be granted BC?

Lastly I would just like to thank you in advance for any help with the above.

[CR001]

Hi guys, I apologise in advance if any of this has been covered, but I have spent the last day going through the various posts and while I have learned a lot from all the others, I cannot find the specific answers I need!

So, to lay the groundwork:

I am in the UK on an Ancestry visa, I am South African, and I arrived late in 2005, my wife and two children arrived mid 2006, all on my visa. As a family we all applied at the same time for ILR which we were granted in May 2012. My kids are both under 18.

I am in the process of completing a family application, which in effect relates to the filling in of 4 forms - 2 x AN(my wife and I) and 2 x MN1(my two kids).

For myself and my wife, form AN most always refers to the last 5 years, which is fine, as we have all the relevant information. We have completed the life in the UK test as well, which was a pre-requisite to ILR anyway. Have you and your wife done level B1 English and have the proof? Or a degree taught in English which is comparable? South Africa is not on the list of majority English speaking countries so this requirement will need to be met after the rule changes in October last year.

Where I am getting confused is what information I need to include in the MN1 form for my kids, and I need to make sure it all makes sense, because some of the wording doesn’t tie up with the AN form.

1. I take it that the section the kids are applying under would be Section 3 (1)? Correct
2. Section 3.1 asks which parent is the one who is British by descent? It asks that or 'parent on which application is based' so you can tick father
3. And then section 3.2 asks to provide the parent’s addresses in the UK for the reckonable 3 year period? Address history in the UK for the last 3 years

Well I am eligible for British citizenship by ancestry but everything I have had to do has always been over 5 years? Or do I just fill in the relevant 3 year section, based on my own application form which will have the last 5 years filled in? Fill in what is asked for in MN1, which is 3 years and for yourself and your wife it will be for the last 5 years

4. In terms of referees, can we use the same referee for all of us if they have known our family for more than 3 years, or do we all have to have different referees? Same referee is fine

5. As we have ILR I assume, after reading through the documents list that I do not need to submit salary statements etc as we will send our ILR cards with our application? No, employment is not a requirement for citizinship applications but I would submit recent P60s with in case is it asked for.

6. I also get the impression that BC is not necessarily granted to the children in this situation, or am I reading stuff in where it does not exist? If my application gets approved, then my assumption is we will all 4 of us be granted BC? Yes, all are based on you and your wife gaining approval. You could apply for yourself and your wife and then apply for your kids when you are approved, but it shouldn't be a problems as It is a family application - are you using NCS to apply??

Lastly I would just like to thank you in advance for any help with the above.

[Adventurer101]

Hi CR001, thanks for the reply.

Firstly, one question which I forgot to add: In section 3.6 of form MN1 it asks for details of the child's grandparent from which the parent in 3.1 derived British citizenship by decent? However, it is my grandparent by which I have ancestral rights to the UK, not my children, so what do I fill in this section? Or do I leave it blank?

In response to your answers for the English, we are English speaking, that is our first language, I suppose that does not matter anymore! What is level B1 English? Does this mean another test? And does this apply for all 4 of us, or just the adults?

The referee information is great news, thanks. And yes, I have submitted P60 information all the while I may as well continue to do so.

And no, I was not going to use the NCS to apply, so far done everything ourselves and while it has taken us quite a bit longer, this was simply due to not having the finances to pay for everything after the last huge increase on fees! I just cannot afford another £200 for the NCS.

[CR001]

The MN1 guides states that section 3 of the form is not relevant to an application under section 3(1) of the BNA, so you don't need to complete this section.

The English requirement came into force on 28th October 2013 and even though you are English, SA is not on the list like Australia or USA would be. So yes, unfortunately you and your wife will need another test up to level B1 in order to apply for citizenship and the test has a cost involved too. Do you or your wife have a degree taught in English??

See extract quote and link below.

You can demonstrate your knowledge of language and life in the UK in three ways:
- Passing the Life in the UK test, and either
- having a qualification in English at B1 level or above of the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR), which includes assessment of speaking and listening, or
- being a national of an English-speaking country

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... hip/kol-uk

NCS is great as you get to keep your original documents, but yes it is an extra cost on top of the fees.

[Adventurer101]

I really appreciate your response.

It is a bit demoralising that once again as we get to the finish line, the rules change and we now find ourselves having to do something else. The main issue is my oldest son turns 18 in a few months, and with the added English test issue, we more than likely will now not get our application in on time. And not to mention that fees usually go up in April!

Not that any of the above is your problem, or that anybody can do anything about it! Just beginning to wonder if we will ever get there!

[CR001]

You and your wife will only need to do a test, not a full English course, this requirement is not applicable for the children's MN1 applications. Best would be to book one asap and then get your applications in before he turns 18. You do realise that if he turns 18 while his application is in progress, you will have to pay an additional £80 to cover his ceremony fee.

If you or your wife have a degree taught in English, this can be used as proof of the English requirement.

[Adventurer101]

This is just a speaking and listening B1 English exam isn't it?

There seem to be so many variations around!

[CR001]

Yes, that is all you need to fulfill to meet the requirement and should be a piece of cake really. I was lucky I could do my citizenhip before the changes, even though I am 100% English South African, the additional requirement would have stressed me out too much.

[Adventurer101]

Much appreciated for the help. Am booking as we speak, and will hopefully travel to London next week to get the test out the way, and then we can submit our applications.

[CR001]

Great stuff and good luck.

Keep us updated with your application progress.

Char

[JAJ]

1. I take it that the section the kids are applying under would be Section 3 (1)?
2. Section 3.1 asks which parent is the one who is British by descent?
3. And then section 3.2 asks to provide the parent’s addresses in the UK for the reckonable 3 year period?

Section 3(1).
MN1 is an all-purpose form that covers many different situations. If you read the guidance notes, you should see that section 3 only applies to applications under section 3(2) or 3(5).

5. As we have ILR I assume, after reading through the documents list that I do not need to submit salary statements etc as we will send our ILR cards with our application?

You should probably send copies of your ILR cards, not originals. As to the rest, they should usually accept certified copies of employment documentation, P60s, etc.

6. I also get the impression that BC is not necessarily granted to the children in this situation, or am I reading stuff in where it does not exist? If my application gets approved, then my assumption is we will all 4 of us be granted BC?

Technically it's at the discretion of the Secretary of State, but will normally be granted based on the facts given. You may wish to research further in the Home Office Nationality Instructions.

Do you want to keep your South African citizenship? If so, you need to get permission from Home Affairs before you become a British citizen. Otherwise you lose South African citizenship automatically. Your children can also lose their South African citizenship if both parents cease to be citizens, as far as I am aware.

[CR001]

Do you want to keep your South African citizenship? If so, you need to get permission from Home Affairs before you become a British citizen. Otherwise you lose South African citizenship automatically. Your children can also lose their South African citizenship if both parents cease to be citizens, as far as I am aware.

The South African law on obtaining a second citizenship does not apply to children under 18, they automatically retain the birth citizenship and the new citizenship, regardless of parents status.

My daughter (recently turned 18) has both South African and British, yet I only have British as chose to relinquish my South African citizenship and she travels in and out of SA with her South African Passport etc.

Retention of Citizenship

If you want to formally obtain the citizenship of another country while retaining your South African citizenship, you can apply for retention of your South African citizenship by:

completing Forms DHA-1664 and DHA-529
paying the required application fee

Please note: the application must be made and approved before acquisition of the other citizenship, or you will lose your SA citzenship automatically on the date that you have acquired the foreign citizenship.

You can submit the forms to any office of the Department of Home Affairs in South Africa, or any South African embassy, mission or consulate overseas.

Automatic loss of citizenship

Unless you have been granted retention of your South African citizenship prior to acquiring another citizenship, you will lose your South African citizenship automatically if you are 18 years and older and

have obtained the citizenship of another country by a voluntary and formal act, other than marriage, or
are serving in the armed forces of another country (where you are also a citizen) and that country is at war with South Africa.

http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/index.php/citizenship1

[Adventurer101]

Guys thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

Yes, we are keeping our SA citizenship and have already got the necessary letters authorising us to do so, did that about 3 weeks ago.

Just for your information, I asked when I was there regards the kids, and I was told categorically that while the kids were under 18, it was not a problem, but that as soon as they turned 18, they should apply to retain their SA citizenship! So I am not sure how it all works in the background, but it may be an issue when your daughter's passport is up for renewal, I am not sure, but she may want to check on that?

My son wants to keep his, so I will be travelling back into London after he is 18 so we can get the retention letter for him as well, just to be safe! It costs £25, so against all the other costs I have paid, not a big one! It is the travelling that kills us.

B1 exam - £125 X 2 for my wife and I. Train fare in the morning is £167, but as we are going in the afternoon, it now costs me £96, it all adds up and this has been an extremely expensive endaba!

[CR001]

I also enquired and was told there is no need to apply for anything as she gained the second citizenship before the age of 18. Luckily here passport was renewed recently, so she will have to see in 10 years time lol

It is a very expensive exercise but you are almost at the finish line!!

Wishing you all the best Adventurer101.

[Adventurer101]

Hi Guys, we have now completed our B1 test, all of 5 minutes. I am now preparing the application forms and just wanted to verify a few things prior to us actually submitting our application?

I am not using the verification service, so do I need to send original documents with our application or could I send photocopies?

Just a quick run down: I have completed the following as part of our application for citizenship:

1: ILR - 2012
2: Life in the UK test - 2012
3: B1 test - 2014
4: Application fee - family of 4 - £2,729
5: Copies of all our documents, although as stated above, this may be irrelevant if we need to send the original documents.

Do you recommend the Nationality Checking Service as opposed to completing everything yourself?

Many thanks

Alan

[CR001]

You have to send originals of all documents if applying yourself.

I would strongly advise using NCS as you will then get all your original documents back and the applications are checked etc.

[Adventurer101]

Yes, I realise the positive aspect for documentation with the NCS, the only problem for us is availability as our son turns 18 in a short while, so I really need to get the application in ASAP. I will call the local NCS service and see when they can fit us in?

Thanks

[CR001]

You can apply at any council that offers the NCS service, it does not have to be your local council. Also, different councils charge different rates.

Bear in mind that if your son turns 18 while the application is under process, you will need to pay an additional £80 to cover the cost of his ceremony.

When does he turn 18?

[Adventurer101]

In May, and yes I am aware of the £80.

I have a reminder to phone the local council and check availability of appointments tomorrow, so fingers crossed, it won't be too long?