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My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected again.

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walkthisway
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Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:17 pm

My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected again.

Post by walkthisway » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:42 am

Hello everybody.
Today I finally completed my second application for the permanent residence card. The first time it was rejected for the following reasons (copy and paste, including potential mistakes) :

"Regulation 6(2)(b) stipulates that a person who claims to be a qualified person in the United Kingdom as a jobseeker must.
(i) have registered as a job seeker and were employed for at least a year before become unemployed
(ii) have been unemployed for no more than six months, or
(iii) can provide evidence that they are seeking employment in the UK and have a genuine chance of being engaged.

Your application and has been considered and the following has been ascertained from the evidence provided :
. You have been a jobseeker for a period in excess of six months
. Your EEA national sponsor has not evidenced that they are actively seeking work and have a genuine chance of engagement.

Whilst it is accepted you have been a student and are currently employed, the first six months of jobseeking would have been accepted as exercising treaty rights. It is noted that you have been a jobseeker for 4 year the United Kingdom from 2011 to 2015 as stated in your application form and therefore anything over the first 6 months whilst jobseeking can not be accepted as exercising treaty rights in the United Kingdom. As a result, this department is unable to establish that you have been exercising Treaty rights in the United Kingdom for a continuous period of 5 years whilst being a student, a job seeker and employed."

As soon as the packet with the documents and the new application was sealed and ready to be delivered, I went back to these rejection lines and realised that it would probably be rejected again.
This second time, for each year (from 2011 to 2015), I provided documents of registration from the Jobcente Plus, rejection letters from employers, payslips from all my previous employers.
I feel the new application is "just" more complete and in more details, but (going back to their rejection lines) I wasn't employed before I became unemployed. I was a university student (2010-2011) (insured). I was always actively seeking work (after uni), but I have been a jobseeker for an excess of six months.

As stated in the Eligibility of the EEA (PR), "You must have lived in the UK for a continuous period of 5 years : - an EEA national 'qualified person' (worker, self employed, self sufficient, student or jobseeker).
It doesn't say anywhere that I had to be employed for at least a year before becoming unemployed.
It doesn't say anywhere that if you've been on JSA for over 6 months, the rest of the time doesn't count and it's lost. At the time I was a jobseeker, I never received any letter from the JobCentre (or anywhere else) stating that after 6 months you stop exercising Treaty Rights. If that was the case, I'm sure they would have stopped all my benefits, and in fact they didn't.

Rejection letters from employers (for each year), prove that I was always actively seeking work. But how do I prove that I had a genuine prospect of work? Isn't it enough that now I have a permanent job?

I know that now though, with the current legislation, europeans in the UK can sign on for only 6 months after which their benefits are stopped and they need to prove in what form/entitlement they can stay in the country. It wasn't the case back then.

What is your opinion?

noajthan
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Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by noajthan » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:06 am

This CPAG document has more background on this:
http://www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/fi ... 2015_0.pdf
- see pages 3-6
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

walkthisway
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:17 pm

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by walkthisway » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:48 pm

Thanks for your reply and thanks for the link.

Aren't the rejection replies from employers a compelling evidence that I've been always looking for work?
Isn't the fact that I'm currently working (on a permanent job) the proof that I had genuine prospect of work?
Isn't the fact that I was always registered to the Jobcentre Plus a proof that I was considered a jobseeker? If I didn't qualify, they wouldn't have not accepted me and wouldn't have not paid JSA.

walkthisway
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:17 pm

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by walkthisway » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:25 pm

?

noajthan
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Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by noajthan » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:06 pm

walkthisway wrote:Thanks for your reply and thanks for the link.

Aren't the rejection replies from employers a compelling evidence that I've been always looking for work?
Isn't the fact that I'm currently working (on a permanent job) the proof that I had genuine prospect of work?
Isn't the fact that I was always registered to the Jobcentre Plus a proof that I was considered a jobseeker? If I didn't qualify, they wouldn't have not accepted me and wouldn't have not paid JSA.
Thinking logically yes, or even applying common sense, then yes.

The challenge is HO applies the rules/regulations as they stand, and as I understand it, the rules around jobseekers/gpow & etc appear to have been backdated.
So you have to make your case in that environment.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

walkthisway
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:17 pm

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by walkthisway » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:42 pm

I really don't know. I guess in that environment I've already lost again and with no future chances to succeed.
In what prospective shall I present my history then?

By the way, these are my timeline details :
1st year (end of 2010 until end of 2011) : University student with insurance
2nd year 2012 : Jobseeker
3rd year 2013 : Jobseeker + a couple of months of temporary jobs
4th year 2014 Jobseeker + about four months of temporary jobs
5th year 2015 Jobseer until I found a full time job after the first half of the year
6th year 2016 : still on the same job

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by noajthan » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:18 am

walkthisway wrote:I really don't know. I guess in that environment I've already lost again and with no future chances to succeed.
In what prospective shall I present my history then?

By the way, these are my timeline details :
1st year (end of 2010 until end of 2011) : University student with insurance
2nd year 2012 : Jobseeker
3rd year 2013 : Jobseeker + a couple of months of temporary jobs
4th year 2014 Jobseeker + about four months of temporary jobs
5th year 2015 Jobseeker until I found a full time job after the first half of the year
6th year 2016 : still on the same job
As per the document posted above...
until 01/01/2014, a person had a jobseeker right of residence under the UK Regulations provided they simply could “provide evidence that he is seeking employment and has a genuine chance of being engaged


Even if this still applies (and the period 2012 - 2013 is not now covered by new rules being backdated - not sure) you may still be caught out by the period from 1/1/14 until mid-2015...

What this [new] rule does in effect is state that no-one can assert a right of residence as a jobseeker for more than 91days unless they can provide “compelling evidence” that they are continuing to seek employment and have a genuine chance of being engaged.


Worst case it would appear your PR clock may only have started (as a worker qualified person) in mid-2015.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

walkthisway
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:17 pm

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by walkthisway » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:03 pm

Well, with the new rule after January 2014, you need to show ' “compelling evidence” that they are continuing to seek employment and have a genuine chance of being engaged'.
Again, aren't the rejection responses from employers a compelling evidence that I'm continuing to seek employment? Isn't the fact that I have a permanent job the fact that I had a genuine chance of being engaged? Also, after the 91 days, it doesn't say a time limit for having a genuine chance of being engaged. Don't you think?

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by noajthan » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:14 pm

It's not me you have to convince.
And I don't know how high the bar is set.

The refusal, rightly or wrongly, seems to say 91 days and its game over.

And the doc I linked above speaks of cases where a job after a period of jobseeking was not enough to satisfy the test; bizarre as that may be.

Anyway it costs £65 to test the water.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

walkthisway
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:17 pm

Re: My second EEA application. Scared it will be rejected ag

Post by walkthisway » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:25 pm

You're right. By the way, they charge £65 only if they give me the card. If they don't, there is no charge.

I wonder if Britain comes out of the EU (after the referendum in June), there will be still a chance to apply.

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