Success with my mum's Dependent Relative application at AIT

[bototo]

I originally requested your advice on applying for my mother to get ILR. Thanks vinny for your replies, they were invaluable.

Because she has a fair amount of savings in India and a regular pension proving the financial dependence was always going to be tricky. I asked for your advice here. Again, thanks to everyone who replied.

The application was turned down by the Home Office on the sole grounds of her not being financially dependent on me, and we had to take it to the AIT.

Solicitors, and some members here, did suggest it might be difficult. This is (i) because of the financial situation, (ii) the fact that I did not have proof I was supporting her and (iii) because she came her on a visitor's visa and was applying from within the country. In fact, my solicitor said we had a near zero chance.

However, I put a carefully organised plan into action, went to India, met with lots of people there and got documents from lawyers, doctors, accountants etc. The right type of documents. Then we went to the AIT and the judge accepted every single thing we represented and gave us a judgement resoundingly in our favour.

My advice to other applicants out there - don't trust your solicitor/barrister to do your job for you. When it's a difficult case, take their advice but you'll need to come up with the ideas yourself. Innovative ideas, out of the box thinking.

For example, my mother sold my late dad's property for Rs 500,000 some years ago. We, the children, always assumed that the money would stay with mum. However, in India, legally the property should have been shared out equally between mum and all the children. I therefore got a letter from the lawyer in India who handled the sale. It said that mum owned only a quarter of those proceeds and that she now owes her children Rs 400,000 (the bulk of her savings). We didn't make out that we are claiming the money but showed it as part evidence for financial support. (In the statement of finances I got from her accountant - a Balance Sheet if you like - the Rs 400,000 was listed as a liability).

Similarly with her pension. I proved with documentation from doctors here and in India that she can't take care of herself and would need to go to a care home. I brought back with me estimates from care homes and they demonstrate that her pension would have been nowhere near what's required.

That's just to give you an idea of some of the things I did. Hope it helps anyone else in the position I was in. Use your ingenuity.

Mum is delighted to finally get ILR. And we are all ecstatic.

[immigrationuk2009]

Hi

Excellent job.

Best Luck

UK_Banned_Member

[navbulls]

Congratulations! to you n your loved ones...

Best Wishes

[PaperPusher]

I'm glad it worked out for you all bototo, in the end.

[THEDUDE]

hiya

So happy to hear that ur mum got her stay.i am in a similar situation and i just wanted to ask,With regards to her health,did u submit evidence from Doctors from ur homeland as well as the United kingdom too?Do they believe doctors from our homelands or just from within the UK?.Another question is with regards to the visa endorsement,i thought u are only granted Discretionary leave when you win at an appeal hearing?

thnx

[bototo]

I submitted evidence from doctors both here and in India. The judge seemed to consider all opinions equally valid irrespective of where the doctor was located.

When you win at appeal the judge generally rules that you should get what you originally applied for.

[Guy_mk]

hey bototo--Congratulations.
Can you please contact me, I am in a similar situation but my mother is in india and applied from there.

We had won the appeal on the 1st application but HO decided to appeal against it and the decession was over turned.

Now 2nd application made and was rejected on financial ground although I send money and evidences provided.

I am really pissed off with these "jobs worth" ECO'S.

[hmm]

hey bototo--Congratulations.
Can you please contact me, I am in a similar situation but my mother is in india and applied from there.

We had won the appeal on the 1st application but HO decided to appeal against it and the decession was over turned.

Now 2nd application made and was rejected on financial ground although I send money and evidences provided.

I am really pissed off with these "jobs worth" ECO'S.

we are in similar position with my mother in law. Applied for settlement visa from India in October 2009. Rejected on the financial ground (despite sending all the western union money transfer receipts, etc). Lodge the apeal in the UK and now waiting for the hearing date.
I tried to send you a pm but I don't think it went. Can't you not receive pm?

[bototo]

No I didn't get your PM, but I have received others. Included in there was one asking for contact details of the people in India who "make evidences".

Assuming he's asking for what I think he's asking for I'm not going to bother replying. I've provided enough information in the OP to give readers an idea of the type of approach they need to take. I didn't just dump the job in someone's lap. For example, it took me a whole day in India visiting care homes and getting their brochures, quotations etc., just to satify one little fact: how much it would cost if she went into care!

If readers are unable to find ways to produce genuine evidence to support their case and are unable to think outside the box and take the time and trouble to do what I described in the OP, then I wish them luck, but...

I'm not in the business of recommending fraud.

[Nazz]

Hi Bototo

How long it took your mom to get an initial decision? I applied for my mother from Lebanon on 4rth of January 2010 and heard nothing yet. in case of refusal what is the procedure of appeal?

[Guy_mk]

Thanks for your reply, bototo. Obviously i will do my own "home work" and try to resolve the problem.
I get your point, Cheers.

hmmm, I replied you.

[vito0514]

See Older dependent relatives

[bototo]

Nice post and very useful for all the links and pointers.

But I wouldn't follow the UKBA's guidance too much - they don't have an incentive to help you. For example

Note: Joint sponsorship is not allowed (see Chapter 8 Section 8 paragraph 3.2.)

Joint sponsorship is allowed. There was a case in October 2008 where this was tested and the judges ruled that the wording of the law did in fact allow for joint sponsorship (the UKBA's "interpretation" is wrong). That case has been used as a precedent very successfully in several cases last year. The UKBA won't tell you that! And I notice they haven't corrected their online guidance. So, if you don't have enough funds to sponsor on your own, bear in mind that you can team up with someone else and do a joint sponsorship.

Example 2:

The evidence should normally be in the form of international money orders or a letter from the bank confirming that money is transferred on a regular basis.

What they think is "normal" doesn't really matter. It's what the judges in IAT accept as adequate evidence of support - you could be sending £0 per year and still be complely supporting your parent.

In other words, read the law on the matter and get a good solicitor/barrister, don't be scared by the UKBA interpretation - because that is essentially what is on the UKBA's site: their interpretation.

[Guy_mk]

Hi Folks

Just thought to let you all know that I won my mother's appeal today which was heard in London.

Immigration people were present. The judge was good and heard my solicitor's argument but she (judge) had read all the documents before arriving which helped my solicitor not repeating apart from some evidences she wanted to see.

I was nervous but paid off. Now wait of 3-4 weeks probably for the confirmation letter.

If any of you are in the same situation, I suggest gather your evidences and be honest and logical, it will work for you too as long as you fulfill their criterias.
Best of luck to all.

[vito0514]

Nice post and very useful for all the links and pointers.

But I wouldn't follow the UKBA's guidance too much - they don't have an incentive to help you.

Example 2:

The evidence should normally be in the form of international money orders or a letter from the bank confirming that money is transferred on a regular basis.

What they think is "normal" doesn't really matter. It's what the judges in IAT accept as adequate evidence of support - you could be sending £0 per year and still be complely supporting your parent.

In other words, read the law on the matter and get a good solicitor/barrister, don't be scared by the UKBA interpretation - because that is essentially what is on the UKBA's site: their interpretation.

Correct (in case if you go to court/tribunal appeal).
However, if one feels that he/she has good chances to get settlement without court/tribunal appeal (i.e., fit all UKBA guidance/interpretation conditions) - then it does not hurt to follow UKBA guidance. Is that right?

[bototo]

Hmm. I think it's safe to always expect to go to tribunal. You should therefore never jeopardise your future chances at tribunal in an attempt to get a straight UKBA approval. To use the above example of dual sponsorship - if you followed UKBA advice that it was not possible you'd be stuffed at tribunal because you can't add a sponsor later!

Do read the UKBA website advice, but even if you're 100% sure you've got a cast iron case, do not go by their advice.

Put your application together based on the law and case studies. Where your application deviates from UKBA advice use your covering letter to point them to the relevant case that supports your stand. They are fully aware of the case, they (and their website) just pretend to not know.

The law sometimes leaves things up to the "discretion" of the Sec of State. That's not a deal breaker either. You can challenge how s/he has applied that discretion.

Think of it this way: You're in the market for a car. You go down to the local second hand car dealer. You don't give him a briefcase of cash and tell him to pick a car for you and give you the change, do you?

You'd trust the UKBA a little bit less than you'd trust the car salesman.

[vito0514]

duplicate / removed

[bototo]

I've just noticed the vito0514 post. You sent exactly the same thing to me by PM which I already answered several days ago. Why duplicate the question?!

[ashklive]

Hello,
I am a British citizen and my widow mother who is 66 years old lives in India. I have two elder sister living in India and both of them are married. My mother has recently been diagnosed with Cancer. i took off from my work and came to India to take care of her. I want to take her to UK with me so that i can take care of her there.
What is the best way to apply for her ILR ?

1)should i take her to UK on visitor visa ( she already has 5 year visitor visa) and then apply for her ILR there or should i apply for her ILR in India ?

2) should i apply for ILR on health ground or on financial ground ?

Please help , i am very stressed becuase of her condition.

thanks

[bototo]

You can't plan to bring her here and then apply - that blows your case completely out of the water. If she's coming as a visitor then the understanding is that she intends to return. If you/she say one thing and otherwise disclose to someone that you intend something else, that's deception and she'll be making it difficult to impossible to ever get stay.

If, on the other hand, she fully intends to return but there's a change of circumstance while she's here or her health deteriorates - and you can prove the change of circumstance - they she can apply while on a visitor visa. But do something stupid with the application like giveaway that you've come to the UK with all the documentation in preparation for the possiblity of applying for ILR and you end up looking like it was pre-meditated.

I think her chances are better from here. For one, she'll be resident with you for the six months of visitor stay + the time it takes them to process her application + the time it takes to get to IAT. And while she's here you can get medical documentation from UK doctors to support part of your case.

2) should i apply for ILR on health ground or on financial ground ?

There isn't a choice. You sound very inexperienced in this. Read the qualifications for this category, read them again, then talk to a good lawyer about how you can meet every single requirement and how you can prove it. In areas where you feel your application is weak, read as many threads as you can here and elsewhere. And some case studies for good measure.

[ashklive]

Thanks for the reply, Bototo.

If i undertstand correctly, you are suggesting that her chances are better if she comes to UK, stays with me for six months and then i apply for her ILR showing that she is totally financially dependent on me + mentioning her sickness as another reason for her dependence on me.

[bototo]

I'm not a lawyer, but I think it would be easier all around - including with case preparation - if she were here. You don't "decide" to wait six months or two months. You are guided by the change in circumstances and when it happens.

You may be underestimating the difficulty proving financial dependence. It isn't done simply by showing she lived with you for six months here.

Before you raise any more questions I think you really should do some research first and read the requirements in detail so you appreciate what they are.

[NT1234]

hello bototo

how old was your mum? i have a case going through for my mum also, she is under 65 but is ill and wanted some advice on this.

[bototo]

Over 65, I'm afraid, so it's a bit more difficult for you.

[NT1234]

thanks - the decision was overturned about a month ago and the ILR was granted so its all over for me..........just waiting to welcoem her here in the comign weeks...