EU Commission gone wishy-washy and vague on Citizens rights

[acme4242]

I notice the Commission have now finished what was suppose to be a new
website portal with more detailed information to EU citizens and their
family on their rights.

But its all gone non-committal and wishy-washy,

Here is the New vs Old information related to EU visas for EU
family members

Applying for a visa

:
The documents that your non-EU family member has to submit to apply for a visa may vary from country to country. Before travelling to another country, contact the consulate or embassy of that country to find out which are the documents that your non-EU family members will have to submit with their visa application.

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW

Consular officers issuing the visas may not:

* ask you to produce any documents other than a valid passport and documents attesting to your family link with a Union citizen and proof of dependence, where applicable, such as to furnish proof of means to support yourself, travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips, bank statements, proof of accommodation, means of subsistence, medical certificate …
* ask you how much money you have to spend;
* ask you questions regarding the purpose and duration of your trip.

I got the old page by going to
http://web.archive.org/
and entering the following in search field
http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ex_en.html

[Plum70]

The EU vessel was supposed to be sailing for lucid lands. Why this murkiness now? It's bad enough that with the present legislation some member states still dare to request excessive supporting docs to accompany non-EU family member applications. With this change the possibilities/concoctions will be endless!

Let's hope that member states are as slow (even slower) at catching on to this as they were substantially implementing the Directive in the first place!

[ca.funke]

Ouch, this new website really hurts.

[quote=""European Commission""]Your non-EU spouse, (grand)parents or (grand)children do not need a visa if they (...) travel with you and/or wish to join you -and have a residence card issued by an EU country other than the country of which you are a national. This would be the case if you are living in another country. The residence card should clearly state that the holder is a family member of an EU national.[/quote]
That´s what should have been possible for quite some time (>>see here<<), reaffirmed. The part "wish to join you" is just as unclear as it always was. (Who may join whom?, does the joinee have to be resident? / can the joinee be temporary?, what papers are necessary?, can the joinee just wait at the border/airport for pickup? etc...)


[quote=""European Commission""]Your partners and other family members - siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, and so on - have the right to try to be recognised as family members of an EU national.

The authorities of the other EU country must consider their request. They can refuse to recognise them as family members but if they do, your family members will be exempted from the visa requirement.[/quote]
I also have the right to "try to be recognised" as the emperor of China...


[quote=""European Commission""]To avoid problems, contact the consulate or embassy of the country to which you are travelling well in advance to find out which documents your non-EU family member will be asked to present at the border. This will help to avoid unpleasant situations such as your non-EU family member being refused entry because they do not have the required documents.[/quote]
That´s another way of saying: 2004/38/EC is widely ignored by member-states, as a citizen you simply cannot rely on being treated according to the law. Pure confession of failure by the commission.


[quote=""European Commission""]Be aware that some countries may fail to apply EU law correctly and your non-EU family members may be denied some of their rights, as described here.[/quote]
I may fail to take the Commission seriously...


Seriously. As a law-abiding citizen you need factual information about your rights. Something like "do A, B, C to have your non-EU family-member join you" (and this should, of course, always work).

The current "maybe, could, should" website does not help at all. It just shows how much the directive is effectively ignored.

[Obie]

HI Christian,

Long time.

I completely agree with your assessment. I am of a similar view that this new guidelines effectively acknowledges the failure of the memberstates in abiding with the spirit of the directive, and instead of naming and shaming these lawless culprits, they are essentially saying family members will have to abide by the law they unlawfully adopt, or else they should be prepared to face the music of harressment, intimidation or deportations at the borders.

The commission seem to have forgotten the ECJ ruling in MRAX, and its implication.

As a guardian of the treaty, i really expect more from the commission than this clear sign of weakness, and lack of will power. No wonder the memberstate are doing as they see fit, without any due regards for the law.

[MelC]

I waited with baited breath for the "new" website, and wondered if it would be easier or harder to find information etc, when I had cause to contact "signpost" re uing their logo, and was told that they would no longer be using one and that they coulod still be found ~ at that time the "new" website was fledgling and it was VERY hard to find and i knew what i was looking for!

I can only think that the "new" website appears to be going down the route of the EU ~ well we have what we want so now you will see that a a citizen you don't really count!

I truly hope to be proven very wrong!

[ca.funke]

Just happened to come across the EU´s new website again, and god it hurts so much:

They post an example, which reads:

This could be you

Problem
Julia is Australian and married to Olivier, who is French. They are planning to go on holiday to Athens, but when she asked the Greek authorities for a visa, they said the procedure would take many months.

Solution
Julia reminded the Greek authorities she was married to an EU national, and so her visa should be issued quickly.

The example above is totally twisted:

• First, >>Australian citizens do not need a visiting-visa for Greece/Schengen<<* in the first place.
• Second, if they´re married and she would be visa-required, they´d be allowed to travel visa free because
  • They might already live in Schengen OR
  • They have an EU-residency-card, which allows visa-free-travel OR
  • They´re allowed to travel simply because they´re married
• Summary: The only combination where the example would be valid:
  • EU-citizen living in his own country outside Schengen AND
  • Married to a visa-required national AND
  • "travel without visa" officially dismissed by some court
• Third, if the worst came to the worst and she would be visa-required, the simple gentle "reminder" (as the page suggests), from all our experiences in this forum, would not help a thing. The embassy would just bluntly ignore the reminder (and thus the law) anyway.

I wonder who put together this new EU-page...?

* The example "List of countries NOT requiring a Schengen visa" from the Greek embassy in Washington seems a bit outdated (Bulgaria and Romania are EU members since 01 Jan 2007). However, Australians still don´t need a visa to Schengen, and this is the point I wanted to make. Wonder who takes care of the Greek embassy´s website? (I guess they have other priorities at present, haha)

[acme4242]

Snail mail only

Questions about this website?

Your Europe Citizens is maintained by the European Commission's Directorate-General for the Internal Market and Services.

European Commission
Single Market Assistance Service
DG Internal Market and Services
B-1049 Brussels
BELGIUM

[MelC]

Snail mail only

Questions about this website?

Your Europe Citizens is maintained by the European Commission's Directorate-General for the Internal Market and Services.

European Commission
Single Market Assistance Service
DG Internal Market and Services
B-1049 Brussels
BELGIUM

OMG!!!!!!!!

I have an email addy for them ~ the fat controllers ~ i had to use it when i wanted approval for thier logo on my website ~ I will go dig it out!!!

I am reeling at all this (and I keep getting locked out of the site and no admins are areound ever????) i have a friend who after PAYING for an appointment at the italian embassy in tunis (sound familiar?) had to police called to forcibly eject them and arrest them for WANTING to apply for an EU entry visa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the fight goes on!!!!

[acme4242]

Annual SOLVIT report....

Annual reports on Your Europe Advice and SOLVIT: Frequently asked questions:
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

Your Europe Advice and SOLVIT: two European services allowing business and citizens to take full advantage of the Single Market
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

SOLVIT helps reunite Turkish husband with pregnant Danish wife in Germany

A Turkish national wanted to join his Danish wife in Germany, where she was about to give birth and thus not able to travel. The Turkish father-to-be needed a visa to travel and was struggling to get the necessary paperwork.

SOLVIT intervened and the German authorities issued a certificate attesting the couple's financial situation, which was needed by the consulate in Istanbul to issue the visa.

Solved in 8 weeks

no no no solvit guys... bending over backwards to unlawful requests
by a German consulate is not helping anyone...

[ca.funke]

Solved in 8 weeks

8 weeks in terms of a pregnancy feels like more than 2 lifetimes...

I´d call this "fulfilling some no-clue-visa-section-guy's illegal ideas" rather than "solved".

"Solved" is really a bit steep, "catastrophe" would be the correct word.

If I were Solvit I´d try to hide this "success" rather than boasting with it.

If they are Solvit, I´m >>Turbo-Solvit<<

OMG - in the light of such incompetence I´m speechless - and definitely underpaid as far as immigration is concerned...

[MSH]

Just another example of the incompetence of SOLVIT.

Seems like a REAL alternative to the Commission and SOLVIT is needed when normal citizens in the EU have their rights violated by xenophobic, dearly beloved regimes like Germany and Denmark (the only reason that poor Turkish-Danish couple had to relocate to Germany in the first place is the Danish government's 'firm' policy of institutionalised beloved..)

[mastermind]

Perhaps, the best course of action is for every EU citizen concerned to write their MEPs about this issue. You can do so by email. You can find contact information of MEPs here: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/members/p ... anguage=EN
For British citizens/residents there is even an easier way: http://www.writetothem.com/

[raina]

Hi Folks.

When the EU began granting the Permanent residence visa after 5 years to NON EU passport holders there was a hope that each country would also grant citizenship by naturalisation.

But many countries are still very tough with these even now. For eg Czech Republic and also Poland its almost impossible to apply and be succesfull in getting citizenship (without marriage) for the permanent resident holders.

Does anyone know if I can contact some institution which can help in this
matter?

Thanks

[mastermind]

raina, unfortunately citizenship matters are out of reach of EU and EU law.
Here are a couple of links with detailed information on rules in specific countries:
http://eudo-citizenship.eu/country-profiles
http://www.mipex.eu/countries

[raina]

Thanks for the links.
On paper one can apply for Polish citizenship after 5 years of getting PR.

But they dont need to give any reasons for refusal and till now very few people have actually got it except those who are married to a Polish citizens.

But before the EU getting PR also was a dream in Czech and Poland now at least its a surety.