visa and appeal refusal

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:27 am

Hi everyone,,,,
plz help me with my complicated visa and appeal refusal case, i got married to a british citizen in 2004 and got a divorce islamically the same year but then got the decree absolute from uk in 2009 due to some domestic problems , i remarried in 2007 in pakistan , and applied for the spouse visa for my pakistani wife, her visa was refused as the ECO officer says that he does not consider this marriage valid as the decree absolute obtained was after i got married in pakistan ....................plz help me if there is any way out to bring my wife and child to UK

Post by **vinny** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:50 pm

If the divorce is not recognised, then marry again.

minty · Post by **minty** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:03 pm

I have first hand experience in this.

At the time of the marriage in Pakistan you were still legally married in the UK, as you did not have your divorce absolute. The fact that you were Islamically divorced has no relevance to the ECO, as they base their immigration decision on the basis of legal position ( the Legal position of you at the time of getting married in Pakistan, was that you were legally married in the UK).

Once you received your divorce absolute there were 2 options.

1. would have been to get your nikah done again in Pakistan after your divorce absolute and show the ECO that you got married after the divorce absolute. This however could be regarded as deception as in fact you had done your nikah with your Pakistani wife before, so may not be a good option and i would not recommend this.

2. Would be to apply for a fiance visa for your wife. Explain in the application that your marriage to your wife in Pakistan was recognised islamically, but was not recognised under UK immigration Law at the time of nikah. This would be the correct method to apply in your situation.

There are many brothers in your situation who have been waiting many years for their divorce to go through in the UK and in the Meantime have gone back to their own countries to get married. The key thing you have to remember here is, at the time of this second marriage it is not recognised as a marriage under UK immigration law as the person is still legally married in the UK. Under UK law the individual cannot have more than 1 wife at a time.

Therefore the most correct way is to apply for your second wife under a fiance visa and explain everything clearly in the application and be honest and clear.

If you require further information we can discuss privately

Post by **Casa** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:08 pm

Minty has given you very good advice.

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:42 pm

many many thanks to all of you for showing me some hopes.
though i am still confused which way to go for...

a)VINNY: don't you think as Minty said that there is an element of deception in remarrying my wife in Pakistan?

b)MINTY & CASA:
your advise about fiance visa seems good but have u seen cases winning this way also what i need to know is that will they allow my son to enter uk on the basis of fiance visa also how do you suppose the process will go about ...will they object that before u had applied for a spouse visa.....got refused.....then.... lost the appeal....... and now u r again applying as a fiance visa??????????? u can understand how complicated this case has become and it has really affected our life....

if possible minty can i have ur personal email addresss...incase i need to talk to u abt it in detail.....

again thanks a million to all

minty · Post by **minty** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:56 pm

I have no problem with you contacting me, however the PM private messages dont seem to be working on this site and i dont want to give out my personal email address here.

Until the PM works, or if you can think of another way for us to contact each other

Post by **batleykhan** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:47 pm

would have been to get your nikah done again in Pakistan after your divorce absolute and show the ECO that you got married after the divorce absolute. This however could be regarded as deception as in fact you had done your nikah with your Pakistani wife before, so may not be a good option and i would not recommend this.

In what way would this be classed as deception. The ECO is already aware that you had got married before you got your DA.Therefore carrying out a second nikkah after obtaining a DA and reapplying would in my opinion make no difference. Also it is not an offence for the same couples under Pakistani or Islamic or law to carry out a second nikkah to the same person.

Re-registering your marriage should not be a problem as long as you pay the fees. You will obviously have to use this date as your official marriage date and not the first one

I would think that Minty second point is more likely to be deception as applying for a fiance visa, when infact teh ECO is already aware that you are married albeit not for Uk Immigartion legislations.

minty · Post by **minty** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:22 pm

Having contacted several immigration specialists who have personally been involved in many cases of this nature. This is the advice that has been given.

First hand expeirnece with proof of cases is whats most important in these situations. If Batleykhan can provide this well and good.

regards
Minty

Post by **Casa** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:11 pm

I've also seen OISC registered Immigration advisors give advice that the fiance route is the correct one in these circumstances. In a similar situation in Morocco, the authorities refused to perform a second marriage as according to local law the first was legal even though the divorce had not been finalised in the UK.

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:30 pm

hi all,

a) minty and casa

i was wondering that regarding the fiance visa have u come across cases that were initially refused as spouse visa and then they reapplied the same case as fiance visa also will they allow our son as well on this visa...if yes then maybe this might work...as u know that our spouse visa application has been refused....that includes appeal as well.....

b) batley khan and vinny ,,,,,thanks for ur reply.....will appreciate if u can help on this further with reference of cases having the same issue as ours

thanks to alll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! u guys are really helpful........................

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:12 am

hi all,
i would like to share with you my previous experience with immigration lawyers.............when i applied for my wife's spouse visa in Pakistan it was handled by IAS Pakistan as they were very confident that i had not broken any law of neither Pakistan nor UK.............my appeal was dealt by an British lawyer in London............both of them was so confident and none of them gave me any option which i found on this forum(to me these two options are very logical)...................
i am still wondering that why they haven't told me any of these options though i was paying them huge amount of money.............
i will be very thankful to you guys if you can lead me to a decision.......

Thanks and Regards

minty · Post by **minty** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:51 am

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#218252

UltraGujjur

I have had discussions with a similar person to you on this immigration site last year. He was going through a similar position, ie refusal because he did not have a divorce absolute at the time of his second marriage in Pakistan. He used the Fiance route and was successfull as can be seen on the forum.

His Nick is psychopomp1. You can view all his posts on the forum by doing a search on his name. I also have his email address somewhere, so if you can contact me privately somehow I can pass it on.

There is a link below to one of the threads, follow it through and as you can see his wife Alhmd did get the Fiance visa and did come to the UK

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#218252

minty · Post by **minty** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:54 am

ultragujjur

are you in the UK at the moment. If so where do you live in the UK?

Post by **batleykhan** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:59 am

Look you can do either do what me and Vinny say or what Casa and Minty have suggested. Both are acceptable methods you can proceed with your application further. I do not forsee any major problem with either.

We gave you our opinions. Obviosly the ways we have suggested that you proceed has in the past worked for us, that is why we are stating what we say. If these things were not practicable, we would not have suggested them.

The choice is yours to make.

The advice that you recieve may vary from people to people, but you ultimately are responsible for your actions. You do whatever you feel is the most appropiate and best suited to your own personal needs.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:17 am

ultragujar wrote:Hi everyone,,,,
plz help me with my complicated visa and appeal refusal case, i got married to a british citizen in 2004 and got a divorce islamically the same year but then got the decree absolute from uk in 2009 due to some domestic problems , i remarried in 2007 in pakistan , and applied for the spouse visa for my pakistani wife, her visa was refused as the ECO officer says that he does not consider this marriage valid as the decree absolute obtained was after i got married in pakistan ....................plz help me if there is any way out to bring my wife and child to UK

Were you also a British citzen when you married?

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:47 pm

thanks Minty................... for all your kind efforts, i will go through to link sooner.....
these days m in pakistan

hi avjones,......
i was not a british citizen when i married in pakistan but was holding the ILR status......and rt now my current situation is that i got my british nationality in march 2010

regards to all

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:02 am

ultragujar wrote:
hi avjones,......
i was not a british citizen when i married in pakistan but was holding the ILR status......and rt now my current situation is that i got my british nationality in march 2010

regards to all

You had ILR independent of the marriage, then? So you didn't get ILR because of the marriage?

Which is good, because otherwise there could have been issues.

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:34 am

avjones wrote:
ultragujar wrote:
hi avjones,......
i was not a british citizen when i married in pakistan but was holding the ILR status......and rt now my current situation is that i got my british nationality in march 2010

regards to all
You had ILR independent of the marriage, then? So you didn't get ILR because of the marriage?

Which is good, because otherwise there could have been issues.

Hi Avjones,
i got ILR on the bases of my previous marriage with British citizen in 2006 and marriage was done in 2004 which was dissolved and decree absolute was issued in 2009. in the meanwhile i got marry in Pakistan in 2007 and applied for my wife's spouse visa sooner after getting the decree absolute in 2009.

do you think there would be still an issue????

regards.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:28 pm

Sorry, I still don't quite understand.

You married a BC in 2004. At that point, in 2004, did you have ILR etc?

Or, did you apply for ILR in 2006 on the basis of the 2004 marriage?

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:56 am

i got married in 2004 with BC, at that point i got the spouse visa to enter UK.
afterwards in 2006 i got ILR on the bases of 2004 marriage...

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:52 am

that's the confusing bit, then. You got ILR on the basis of the marriage, but you'd already gone through a divorce you considered valid before that. So the marriage wasn't present and subsisting, unless I've missed something.

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Hi all,

well could u plz give me information that my wife plans to give her plab 1 and mrcp exam , hopefully if she gets thru her papers what sort of a visa will she apply for and will that particular visa would enable us to file a spouse visa application from london only..do u think that this route wud be more favourable?????????????/ also will she require a new nikah nama after we get marry again or the fiance route to lodge her application even if its for her plab and mrcp visa

thanks..............

Post by **geriatrix** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:02 pm

ultragujar wrote:my wife plans to give her plab 1 and mrcp exam , hopefully if she gets thru her papers what sort of a visa will she apply for and will that particular visa would enable us to file a spouse visa application from london only

Passing PLAB-1 and / or MRCP exam offers no concession for immigration purposes. Irrespective of whether or not your spouse passes these exams, she can enter UK only under the available immigration categories (e.g. - visitor, spouse, PBS etc.).

regards

Amo2012 · Post by **Amo2012** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:16 pm

thanks for the reply...............but what i wanted to know is that what category visa will she apply for if she gets thru her plab or mrcp papers...will it be a visit visa or a student visa....and for how long will she be able to stay in uk........??????????//like for example if its a student category visa then maybe she can change her status to spouse visa while living in uk only............

Post by **geriatrix** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:06 am

She may apply for visit visa of she wants to come to UK as a visitor. She may apply for a spouse visa if you can prove that she is legally married to you. She may enter as a student if she intends to study in the UK and has been accepted as a student by a Tier 4 sponsor. She may enter UK as a Tier 1 or Tier 2 migrant if she qualifies.

Like I said before, passing PLAB-1 / MRCP offers no concession to your wife with regards to her being granted a visa. PLAB exam is required for GMC registration, MRCP is a specialist qualification and neither has any relevance to immigration.

regards

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visa and appeal refusal