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General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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uklondonn
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General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by uklondonn » Mon May 18, 2020 12:39 pm

Anyone with settle status and a gap in their employment in the latest 5 years prior to applying to settle status, witouth CSI won't be able to apply for British Citizenship.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/it-just ... -citizens/

Have I miss understood this?

If I've got it right, It's ridiculous that they change the rules afterwards!

If I knew about this, I would have waited to apply for Settle status!

Only if I should have waited for 10 months more 🙄🙄🙄🙄.

uklondonn
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by uklondonn » Mon May 18, 2020 1:33 pm

I think I've got it right yeah. I found the updated guide:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... y-guidance

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... gov-uk.pdf

This is ridiculous and unfair and It will make me impossible to obtain British Citizenship in the future.

I bet they made it by purpose rushing us to apply for Settle Status, not publishing it on their guides that CSI was going to be required for British Citizenship.. . so a pretty big percentage of Europeans will never be able to apply for British Citizenship.

Waiting so many years to apply and now...


The only alternative plan I could think is applying for Permanent residence right now. Would that work? Who knows... No one has ever tried this..

tcell88
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by tcell88 » Mon May 18, 2020 2:58 pm

Wow, that's insane. It's not even the 5 years for citizenship, it's the 5 years for settled status. Seems the only way will be when you've been here for 10 years without a gap in employment then.

Lnlan10
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by Lnlan10 » Mon May 18, 2020 4:39 pm

I have this issue. Applied for and received settled status Jan 2019, then citizenship Feb 2020. Still waiting for a reply thanks to this mess of corona. Do I risk having my application refused because of this? Can they backtrack the requirement to applications submitted before the change?

Fwiw I do have a European Health Insurance Card which was valid 2013-2019, but it doesn’t have a date of issue. (In my home country they’re issued and shipped automatically once your old one expires...)

uklondonn
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by uklondonn » Mon May 18, 2020 7:46 pm

Lnlan10 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:39 pm
I have this issue. Applied for and received settled status Jan 2019, then citizenship Feb 2020. Still waiting for a reply thanks to this mess of corona. Do I risk having my application refused because of this? Can they backtrack the requirement to applications submitted before the change?

Fwiw I do have a European Health Insurance Card which was valid 2013-2019, but it doesn’t have a date of issue. (In my home country they’re issued and shipped automatically once your old one expires...)

I guess it depends on whether they have already processed your application or not... If there is still a home office employee that needs to revise it, I guess it's possible yeah?

But you can't do anything right now, just try to think in positive. Good luck!

Related to the European Health Insurance Card. I've got one too, but I still got 2 months of gap...
But nevertheless I think the Home Office is trying to reject applications with the European card as CSI, but It would be good to know if someone tried this and had a successful output.

But for the rest of people, we are fuc***d.

The only alternative we have is to apply for a residence card, hoping they approve it soon. And then submit the British Citizenship, hoping they have already revise it before the 31st of December. The 1st of January, the residence card won't be valid anymore, and I GUESS same for British Citizenship applications based on that.

So..very very risky! If at least they return the application fees upon an unsuccessful output... But 1400 is a lot of money... It's like gambling.

Lnlan10
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by Lnlan10 » Mon May 18, 2020 8:32 pm

But nevertheless I think the Home Office is trying to reject applications with the European card as CSI, but It would be good to know if someone tried this and had a successful output.
What makes you think that?

uklondonn
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by uklondonn » Mon May 18, 2020 8:58 pm

Lnlan10 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:32 pm
But nevertheless I think the Home Office is trying to reject applications with the European card as CSI, but It would be good to know if someone tried this and had a successful output.
What makes you think that?
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/compreh ... -needs-it/

By the way, I was saying the only option I've got is to apply for the residence card. I was wrong! I forgot I need to wait a year... And brexit will happen before 😓.


Anyone can think in a valid option to avoid the CSI issue?

Is even a possibility to tell the home office to remove from their systems my settle status application? I guess not...

Lnlan10
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by Lnlan10 » Mon May 18, 2020 9:09 pm

I would try to apply with Settled Status and then use the card if I were in your shoes. I'm sorry.

Were you asked if you had CSI in the settled status application? I don't remember any question about CSI in the naturalization application.

So frustrating. One tries to play by the rules but they keep moving the goalposts.

zcranso
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by zcranso » Mon May 18, 2020 9:09 pm

I made a small experiment to check whether there has been any change. I submitted my own application in March so I can notice any differences. I inserted some random details which are still valid until I got to the document checklist part of the application. There I was told that I would need to provide:

* 'Evidence that you have been in the UK lawfully for your 3 or 5 year qualifying residence period. This should be evidence that you were here as a worker, student, self-employed, self-sufficient, retired or incapacitated person.'

* 'If you spent some of that time in the UK as a student or as a self-sufficient person, and had comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI), a copy of your sickness insurance policy'

I can confirm that none of these requirements appeared in my actual application in March. It would therefore appear that this is a new requirement as reflected in the guidance posted by uklondonn.

For what it's worth I don't think that this makes citizenship using EU Settlement impossible. The guidance seems to say that CSI would strengthen the application but is not essential and caseworkers should exercise discretion.

I also want to believe that this does not affect applications already submitted. The fact that we never agreed in our applications that we could provide these documents should hopefully prevent them from asking for them.

I hope this helps everyone.

Lnlan10
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by Lnlan10 » Mon May 18, 2020 9:16 pm

Thank you very much! It is some partial relief at least. I didn't have that either. Hopefully it won't impact our applications. The frustration remains, however. Priti, don't be too strict please.

tcell88
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by tcell88 » Mon May 18, 2020 9:26 pm

zcranso wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:09 pm
I made a small experiment to check whether there has been any change. I submitted my own application in March so I can notice any differences. I inserted some random details which are still valid until I got to the document checklist part of the application. There I was told that I would need to provide:

* 'Evidence that you have been in the UK lawfully for your 3 or 5 year qualifying residence period. This should be evidence that you were here as a worker, student, self-employed, self-sufficient, retired or incapacitated person.'

* 'If you spent some of that time in the UK as a student or as a self-sufficient person, and had comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI), a copy of your sickness insurance policy'

I can confirm that none of these requirements appeared in my actual application in March. It would therefore appear that this is a new requirement as reflected in the guidance posted by uklondonn.

For what it's worth I don't think that this makes citizenship using EU Settlement impossible. The guidance seems to say that CSI would strengthen the application but is not essential and caseworkers should exercise discretion.

I also want to believe that this does not affect applications already submitted. The fact that we never agreed in our applications that we could provide these documents should hopefully prevent them from asking for them.

I hope this helps everyone.
I submitted in February, and would be affected if this is actually an issue (haven't heard back). I guess I will find out soon. If anyone does get rejected on this ground it would be good if you can report to the group. I'll surely report here what will happen

uklondonn
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by uklondonn » Mon May 18, 2020 9:47 pm

zcranso wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:09 pm
I made a small experiment to check whether there has been any change. I submitted my own application in March so I can notice any differences. I inserted some random details which are still valid until I got to the document checklist part of the application. There I was told that I would need to provide:

* 'Evidence that you have been in the UK lawfully for your 3 or 5 year qualifying residence period. This should be evidence that you were here as a worker, student, self-employed, self-sufficient, retired or incapacitated person.'

* 'If you spent some of that time in the UK as a student or as a self-sufficient person, and had comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI), a copy of your sickness insurance policy'

I can confirm that none of these requirements appeared in my actual application in March. It would therefore appear that this is a new requirement as reflected in the guidance posted by uklondonn.

For what it's worth I don't think that this makes citizenship using EU Settlement impossible. The guidance seems to say that CSI would strengthen the application but is not essential and caseworkers should exercise discretion.

I also want to believe that this does not affect applications already submitted. The fact that we never agreed in our applications that we could provide these documents should hopefully prevent them from asking for them.

I hope this helps everyone.
Thanks for checking that. People that have already applied would be probably lucky then...

But for the rest, you said:

"The guidance seems to say that CSI would strengthen the application but is not essential and caseworkers should exercise discretion"

It is kind of gambling... The documents are required. So the probability the home office case worker would allow it, it's quite small. Isn't it?
Let's give a random number 10% of success, so 90% of probabilities for losing 1400£... + extras

I have been waiting a lot for this day. I was actually studying to do the exam Like in the UK in the next months but now... I read this... I'm super sad to be fair... I wanted to go out from the country for a while to stay with my mother as she is old... And come back at some point to continue living in the UK. But now I need to wait 5 more years (10 years rule) or play this lottery which I will probably loose...


I can can go out from the country, but then politicians could change the rules AGAIN and then I won't be able to come back for any new unnecessary immigrantion law. I guess we are everybody here for the same reason.

Miss A
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by Miss A » Tue May 19, 2020 1:36 am

My English test is next month, I think it's better for me to cancel it because of this csi problem. I thought I escaped it, here we go again, too much headache.

madalina91
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by madalina91 » Tue May 19, 2020 8:48 am

This is exactly what I have been worrying about for the last 6 months. I applied in December 2019 and there was no guidance regarding CSI and Settled Status back then. I ended up doing so much research regarding this issue but back then the Home Office had no guidance on how CSI will work for Settled Status applications and did not ask for it at the time of application.
I guess for those of us who have applied before the guidance and the form changed, it might be a matter of the caseworker emailing us to find out if we had CSI or not. I do not see how they would know otherwise and I hope they will not jump to the conclusion that the applicant didn't have CSI without them checking first. I will update the forum if I receive such an email or if I just get a decision.

Frou01
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Re: Is CSI required for Non-EEA family member and EEA national applying for citizenship with settled status

Post by Frou01 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:28 am

Just double checking this is a general discussion as more members replied to this one and to the same topic below? If not apologise and please delete my post.

In fact that’s a topic suddenly very important to quite a few applicants and not an invidual issue I assume?

I will post my individual question regarding my individual case straight into my thread.

Myself and many others reacted very upset by the news yesterday and I can tell a lot of people with pending applications are very worried.
The article from free movement leaves more questions than answers.

Can anyone explain to me how they understand it?
Does that mean we would have needed CSI before the 5 year qualifying period or/ and during the time before the date receiving Settled Status?

Regarding pending applications. I understand the wording in the AN has recently changed and some who applied a year, months ago might never had it and when I started my application in January I haven’t noticed.
But from what I can say I’ve seen a month ago someone posting an email by HO asking for more evidence and CSI was one of them. That application is a year old and it seems the new requirement is passed on to older pending applications. But it would be useful to get more info of people who are asked for proof of CSI when the application is from last year.

Thank you

Cost Manager
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Re: CSI and settle status. Big issues for everybody

Post by Cost Manager » Tue May 19, 2020 9:54 am

It is confusing. Once you get a settled status, you are no more tied to your sponsor.
In that case, do they look at your 5 year history or your sponsor's 5 year history?

Cost Manager
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Re: Is CSI required for Non-EEA family member and EEA national applying for citizenship with settled status

Post by Cost Manager » Tue May 19, 2020 9:59 am

So what happened if you can't provide CSI? they cancel your settled status or they close the way to BC?

madalina91
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Re: Is CSI required for Non-EEA family member and EEA national applying for citizenship with settled status

Post by madalina91 » Tue May 19, 2020 10:25 am

Frou01 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:28 am
Just double checking this is a general discussion as more members replied to this one and to the same topic below? If not apologise and please delete my post.

In fact that’s a topic suddenly very important to quite a few applicants and not an invidual issue I assume?

I will post my individual question regarding my individual case straight into my thread.

Myself and many others reacted very upset by the news yesterday and I can tell a lot of people with pending applications are very worried.
The article from free movement leaves more questions than answers.

Can anyone explain to me how they understand it?
Does that mean we would have needed CSI before the 5 year qualifying period or/ and during the time before the date receiving Settled Status?

Regarding pending applications. I understand the wording in the AN has recently changed and some who applied a year, months ago might never had it and when I started my application in January I haven’t noticed.
But from what I can say I’ve seen a month ago someone posting an email by HO asking for more evidence and CSI was one of them. That application is a year old and it seems the new requirement is passed on to older pending applications. But it would be useful to get more info of people who are asked for proof of CSI when the application is from last year.

Thank you
I understand it as the 5 years preceding the period of obtaining settled status, but I might be wrong. I am finding the wording quite confusing. As I have already applied months ago there isn't much I can do at this point but wait. If I get an email from the caseworker asking for CSI, I will email them back to ask for them to apply discretion as per their guidance. Have you already submitted your application?

madalina91
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Re: Is CSI required for Non-EEA family member and EEA national applying for citizenship with settled status

Post by madalina91 » Tue May 19, 2020 10:27 am

Cost Manager wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:59 am
So what happened if you can't provide CSI? they cancel your settled status or they close the way to BC?
I do not think so. They definitely do not cancel settled status. If you cannot provide CSI, the caseworker is advised to decide if they think they should apply discretion in this case. So the options on BC are either apply discretion and approve or not apply discretion and reject. Either way, it will be a gamble.

secret.simon
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Re: General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

Post by secret.simon » Tue May 19, 2020 10:29 am

Cost Manager wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:54 am
It is confusing. Once you get a settled status, you are no more tied to your sponsor.
In that case, do they look at your 5 year history or your sponsor's 5 year history?
Cost Manager wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:59 am
So what happened if you can't provide CSI? they cancel your settled status or they close the way to BC?
They would look at whether you, the applicant, met all the requirements of being legally resident in the UK for the five (possibly, ten) years before the date of the application. That may require looking at whether the EEA citizen spouse had CSI during their residence in the UK as well.

It is unlikely that your Settled Status will be impacted, but the route to British citizenship just got a lot tougher if you (or your EEA citizen spouse) had any period of being a student or self-sufficient during their stay in the UK. If they only worked or were job-seekers, they and you will likely not be negatively impacted.

Also see this post. A discussion on Twitter suggests that the Home Office's guidance on this point was ambiguous to begin with and that the law itself hasn't changed, only its interpretation. One of the participants on that thread refers to Page 26 of the EEA freedom of movement guidance. It is well worth reading that as well.

Because there has been no change in the law (indeed, it is a return to the status quo ante as regards the interpretation about the status of EEA citizens and family members without CSI), it is quite likely that the CSI requirement will apply to applications already submitted but not decided.

A similar situation had occured with the change in interpretation of the good character requirement of the naturalisation application. As the requirement has been there for a long time (since 1948), only its interpretation had changed, it was applied to those whose applications were still pending (i.e. not yet decided one way or the other).

I would suggest reading the new guidance and the links I havd added above and if you feel you no longer meet the requirements, to consider withdrawing your application. You should get back your fees, less an administration fee (I believe, but not sure that it is £25).
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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