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I Made a huge mistake on my application and it was rejected!

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

bridgeman40
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I Made a huge mistake on my application and it was rejected!

Post by bridgeman40 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:39 pm

Hi, i applied for Naturalisation but made a mistake when applying, I was not aware court fines for driving were classed as convictions, so i did not declare it on my application. I also went through the national checking service process and when doing so the person who checked my application did not mention this at any point. Now i have been refused and it states any application within 10 years is likely to be refused. Is there something I can do about this????

I know its my fault for not doing my research but i did the application in abit of a rush and thought everything was fine. But was thrown off as the application was quite confusing, I dont understand how someone can be of bad character because of a driving offence?!?!

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Post by CR001 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:00 pm

Can you provide more details about what the driving offense was for and when it happened and why it went to court etc.

If you did not declare it on your form or ask, how is NCS suppose to say or advise anything about it.

With such an important application as naturalisation, it is really never a good idea to rush it.

Maybe if you provide all the details, a moderator or someone with a lot of knowledge and experience about this can advise if a request for reconsideration would be appropriate.
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Re: I Made a huge mistake on my application and it was rejec

Post by MattSule » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:19 pm

bridgeman40 wrote:Hi, i applied for Naturalisation but made a mistake when applying, I was not aware court fines for driving were classed as convictions, so i did not declare it on my application. I also went through the national checking service process and when doing so the person who checked my application did not mention this at any point. Now i have been refused and it states any application within 10 years is likely to be refused. Is there something I can do about this????

I know its my fault for not doing my research but i did the application in abit of a rush and thought everything was fine. But was thrown off as the application was quite confusing, I dont understand how someone can be of bad character because of a driving offence?!?!
How long ago was the offence, please provide details so that people in this forum can you on the appropriate action to take?

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Post by expatinuk » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:38 pm

CR001 wrote:Can you provide more details about what the driving offense was for and when it happened and why it went to court etc.

If you did not declare it on your form or ask, how is NCS suppose to say or advise anything about it.

With such an important application as naturalisation, it is really never a good idea to rush it.

Maybe if you provide all the details, a moderator or someone with a lot of knowledge and experience about this can advise if a request for reconsideration would be appropriate.
When I submitted my application through Leicester NCS, I was asked, 'Have you ever been in court?'. I know it is a catch-all question, but if I had answered in the affirmative, she would have probed further.

When my wife used the NCS service at Staffordshire, the staff didn't have a clue on what documents to accept.

The point is, NCS staff are not trained uniformly and the purpse of using NCS service is not explained clearly to those using the service. So it is not entire the OP's fault (though he should have been more careful, since it was HIS application).

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Re: I Made a huge mistake on my application and it was rejec

Post by MattSule » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:19 pm

bridgeman40 wrote:Hi, i applied for Naturalisation but made a mistake when applying, I was not aware court fines for driving were classed as convictions, so i did not declare it on my application. I also went through the national checking service process and when doing so the person who checked my application did not mention this at any point. Now i have been refused and it states any application within 10 years is likely to be refused. Is there something I can do about this????

I know its my fault for not doing my research but i did the application in abit of a rush and thought everything was fine. But was thrown off as the application was quite confusing, I dont understand how someone can be of bad character because of a driving offence?!?!
bridgeman40,
I don't think you've been refused because of the driving offence, in own view it's based on deception thus the 10yrs ban.

Refusal because of a driving offence will only be a valid refusal if it happened in the last three years and it was in the court.

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Post by Ayyubi72 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:22 pm

Many people think that "in the court" or "been to the court" only means physically appearing in the court.

But you will have been "in the court" even by way of sending plea papers to court, or a solicitor appears on your behalf.

Even if you do not acknowledge court summons, and courts decides the case in absentia, then still you will have "been to the court".

NCS are not there to interrogate and question every aspect of your application. If you do not mention something in application, NCS is not responsible.

HO will only put a bar for 10 years, if there is deception eg a conviction that has been declared, when declaring that conviction would have caused the application to fail.

If you fail to disclose something, which if you had disclosed, would not have caused the refusal, will not result in 10 years bar.

I thought traffic offences are not included won't get you off the hook, as it is very clearly stated in the form that traffic offences are included.

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Post by MattSule » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:35 pm

Ayyubi72 wrote:Many people think that "in the court" or "been to the court" only means physically appearing in the court.

But you will have been "in the court" even by way of sending plea papers to court, or a solicitor appears on your behalf.

Even if you do not acknowledge court summons, and courts decides the case in absentia, then still you will have "been to the court".

NCS are not there to interrogate and question every aspect of your application. If you do not mention something in application, NCS is not responsible.

HO will only put a bar for 10 years, if there is deception eg a conviction that has been declared, when declaring that conviction would have caused the application to fail.

If you fail to disclose something, which if you had disclosed, would not have caused the refusal, will not result in 10 years bar.

I thought traffic offences are not included won't get you off the hook, as If you fail to disclose something, which if you had disclosed, would not have caused the refusal, will not result in 10 years bar. it is very clearly stated in the form that traffic offences are included.
Explain....

If you fail to disclose something, which if you had disclosed, would not have caused the refusal, will not result in 10 years bar.

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Post by Amber » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:44 pm

bridgeman40 when was the date of the driving conviction?
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Post by MattSule » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:50 pm

Amber,

Is this statement correct..."If you fail to disclose something, which if you had disclosed, would not have caused the refusal, will not result in 10 years bar."

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Post by Ayyubi72 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:08 pm

It is not with the exact wording. It is written other way round. On the lines that

" if an applicant fails to disclose a conviction which would have resulted in the refusal, then you should inform that applicant that any application in ten years will .............................."

( I will dig out the exact wording when I get chance)

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Post by Amber » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:03 pm

8.3 Failure to Disclose Convictions wrote:Where the person has failed to disclose any (including minor) outstanding charges or convictions that would result in refusal of the application, the decision maker will normally refuse the application.
In such cases, the decision maker will normally refuse any subsequent application for citizenship if it is made within 10 years from the date of the refusal on these grounds.
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Post by MattSule » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:19 pm

Amber_ wrote:
8.3 Failure to Disclose Convictions wrote:Where the person has failed to disclose any (including minor) outstanding charges or convictions that would result in refusal of the application, the decision maker will normally refuse the application.
In such cases, the decision maker will normally refuse any subsequent application for citizenship if it is made within 10 years from the date of the refusal on these grounds.
Hypothetically, lets assume that somebody was convicted in court for a driving offence 6 years ago and did not disclose it on the application form, will that person be ban for 10 years?

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Post by Smam » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:43 pm

Hi,

What happened can you please elaborate your refusal here on the forum.

Have you got a ban for 10 year or some thing like that ??

Many thanks and waiting for your reply.

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Post by MattSule » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:45 pm

Smam wrote:Hi,

What happened can you please elaborate your refusal here on the forum.

Have you got a ban for 10 year or some thing like that ??

Many thanks and waiting for your reply.
NO, just an hypothetical question in response to Amber's extract/quote...

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Post by wpilr_nov12 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:46 pm

MattSule wrote:
Amber_ wrote:
8.3 Failure to Disclose Convictions wrote:Where the person has failed to disclose any (including minor) outstanding charges or convictions that would result in refusal of the application, the decision maker will normally refuse the application.
In such cases, the decision maker will normally refuse any subsequent application for citizenship if it is made within 10 years from the date of the refusal on these grounds.
Hypothetically, lets assume that somebody was convicted in court for a driving offence 6 years ago and did not disclose it on the application form, will that person be ban for 10 years?
your 10 year ban starts from the most recent refusal, where the refusal is due to non disclosure.
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Post by Amber » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:18 pm

MattSule wrote:
Amber_ wrote:
8.3 Failure to Disclose Convictions wrote:Where the person has failed to disclose any (including minor) outstanding charges or convictions that would result in refusal of the application, the decision maker will normally refuse the application.
In such cases, the decision maker will normally refuse any subsequent application for citizenship if it is made within 10 years from the date of the refusal on these grounds.
Hypothetically, lets assume that somebody was convicted in court for a driving offence 6 years ago and did not disclose it on the application form, will that person be ban for 10 years?
They should not receive a refusal, if they do, they could challenge it. Although, the applicant should never knowingly not declare a conviction or caution.
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Post by innocentdevil » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:28 pm

the OP has definitely got something adverse in his case file. A court attendance for something serious may be why the OP got refused.

unless OP tells us what were the reasons of refusals, this thread is useless.

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Post by Ayyubi72 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:08 pm

innocentdevil wrote: this thread is useless.
But it does remind people that employing deception in applications can have a real negative impact. In this case, another 10 years wait. Not easy to wait another 10 years eh. And even after 10 years there is no guarantee that HO will disregard this deception.

Its better to wait a year or two until your conviction becomes "spent" for naturalisation purpose rather than ensuring guaranteed refusals for next 10 years or even for the rest of the life.

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Post by innocentdevil » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:25 pm

why use deception at the first place. its already understood. everyone knows one's own secrets and one can be honest to oneself.

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Post by bridgeman40 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:29 am

Amber_ wrote:bridgeman40 when was the date of the driving conviction?
hey amber the conviction was in 2010 and it was for driving with a provisional license, which i received 3 points for, the case actually went straight to court,. its my fault for rushing the application, i simply thought driving offences were not included in good character.

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Post by bridgeman40 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:34 am

i did not use deception i am a law abiding citizen, i just never thought a simple driving offence could result in your case being turned down, if this was the case I would have saved my money and simply waited to apply. and you being banned for 10 years. is there some way the 10 year ban can be appealed as i am simply willing to wait for the conviction to be spent etc.

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Post by Amber » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:03 am

What month in 2010 were you convicted? When exactly did you apply for naturalisation?
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Post by TTOE » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:37 am

When in 2010 i.e. date and month?
Definitely not a Fixed Penalty N, is it?
What date was your application received by the home office?

These questions are to enable the forum make sense of the post. Thanks


10 yrs wait is not the end of the world, there are so many things to do to fill the 10 yrs gap.

One advise from me: Do a proper research/seek for a good solicitor to take on the HO. Difficult thing to do but hey its worth giving it your best shot, that should keep you occupy for some time. Learn to enjoy and engage yourself during those potential period of sleepless nights. Pray hard and believe!

All the best mate!

8.3 Failure to Disclose Convictions
Where the person has failed to disclose any (including minor) outstanding charges or convictions that would result in refusal of the application, the decision maker will normally refuse the application.

In such cases, the decision maker will normally refuse any subsequent application for citizenship if it is made within 10 years from the date of the refusal on these grounds.

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Post by Heisgood » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:13 pm

TTOE wrote:When in 2010 i.e. date and month?
Definitely not a Fixed Penalty N, is it?
What date was your application received by the home office?

These questions are to enable the forum make sense of the post. Thanks


10 yrs wait is not the end of the world, there are so many things to do to fill the 10 yrs gap.

One advise from me: Do a proper research/seek for a good solicitor to take on the HO. Difficult thing to do but hey its worth giving it your best shot, that should keep you occupy for some time. Learn to enjoy and engage yourself during those potential period of sleepless nights. Pray hard and believe!

All the best mate!

8.3 Failure to Disclose Convictions
Where the person has failed to disclose any (including minor) outstanding charges or convictions that would result in refusal of the application, the decision maker will normally refuse the application.

In such cases, the decision maker will normally refuse any subsequent application for citizenship if it is made within 10 years from the date of the refusal on these grounds.
"10 yrs wait is not the end of the world" - For sure it's not but can you imagine what the requirements will be in 10yrs? This is so sad as someone who had the same court fine while on international licences 6yrs ago I didn’t know this was considered a conviction until doing some added research including exchanges with Amber on this forum before applying.

bridgeman40 Upsetting as this is it already happen. You need to decide what is next. If your conviction was due to be spent soon then maybe asking for leniency and stating this was a genuine error on your part. Get a good legal expert /lawyer/solicitor/barrister and pray for mercy. Even if it’s just to get the 10yr ban for deception overturn it would have worth the effort.

Amber , is it worth you placing a note on the good character thread stating that guilty pleas whether fines/charges/points issued by the court (whether in person at court or via post) while on international licenses is a conviction in the UK and must be declared? This is a very serious warning to some who think they can avoid declaring convictions. :(
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Post by Amber » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:36 pm

I have added a line on Q3.
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