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PR via retention of rights and now applying for BC

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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dz_nostalgia
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PR via retention of rights and now applying for BC

Post by dz_nostalgia » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:40 pm

hi guys

i had Permanent Residency through retention of rights few months ago, i am preparing myself to apply for BC, however i noticed they are asking for proof of work (payslips etc....) with me it is not a problem i have all 6 years at hand, but are they gonna ask for my ex-wife's payslips and documents?
Last edited by dz_nostalgia on Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dz_nostalgia
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Post by dz_nostalgia » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:39 am

anyone?

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Post by dz_nostalgia » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:03 am

not sure why no one has replied, maybe i need to give you guys more background to the case:


I had my PR in Oct 2010 through retention of rights after being married to an EEA national.

i would like to apply for BC in Sep 2011 but i have few questions:

-in Sept 2011 i would have completed 12 month on PR, can i just show my passport that i have been here for 5 years prior to the application or do they need to see all my p60s etc...

-will they need evidence of my ex's exercising treaty rights even though i have sent all of that when applying and since then i have been granted PR isnt that proof enough?


-which 5 years are they talking about in the form: 5 years P60s including the years spent in PR or 5 years from the day i got married (basically forward or backward timeline?)


i really appreciate your advice

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Post by geriatrix » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:59 pm

1. All documentary evidence(s) as specified in the form / guidance for applicants with PR (EEA regulations).
2. As you have been granted PR, I don't think there is a need, for naturalisation application, to provide documentary evidence(s) of your (now ex) EEA partner.
3. All documentary evidence(s) must cover the qualifying residential period of naturalisation, so for 5 years preceding the application.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

dz_nostalgia
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Post by dz_nostalgia » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:21 pm

sushdmehta wrote:1. All documentary evidence(s) as specified in the form / guidance for applicants with PR (EEA regulations).
2. As you have been granted PR, I don't think there is a need, for naturalisation application, to provide documentary evidence(s) of your (now ex) EEA partner.
3. All documentary evidence(s) must cover the qualifying residential period of naturalisation, so for 5 years preceding the application.
thanks Sush for your reply, while i concur on point 2 and 3, i have read conflicting reports on point 1:

since i have been granted PR on my own right after divorce, should i be ticking section 2.4 on Form AN since i am not a family member of an EEA national and acquired PR in my own through Retention of Rights?

That means i only need to show that have been here for 5 years (could be as simple as showing first entry 5 years prior to application ) and that i have been free from immigration restriction for the last 12 month (via a valid PR sticker on my passport)

probably my situation is not clear cut but something tells me this is gonna confuse the NCS people even more.

londonfemale
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Post by londonfemale » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:09 pm

We are facing similar dilemma but no body has replied to us.
here it is again.
We are married and my husband is non eea.
Help needed here with AN form .
2.4 Please state on what basis you were here for the last six years.Whose details required in this column eea or non eea.
2.5Here it is clear that eea's exercising treaty right has to be written
But whose detail need to be filled on 2.4.
We will be very thankful if someone can guide us .

dz_nostalgia
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Post by dz_nostalgia » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:05 pm

londonfemale wrote:We are facing similar dilemma but no body has replied to us.
here it is again.
We are married and my husband is non eea.
Help needed here with AN form .
2.4 Please state on what basis you were here for the last six years.Whose details required in this column eea or non eea.
2.5Here it is clear that eea's exercising treaty right has to be written
But whose detail need to be filled on 2.4.
We will be very thankful if someone can guide us .
has your husband acquired PR status yet (via EEA4)?
i think if it was you (EEA national) applying then you need to tick 2.4, if it was your husband however (non EEA) i think you should also tick this box since it mentions family of an eea national

my situation is slightly different since i have aquired PR but i am no longer an EEA dependant.

mcovet
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Post by mcovet » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:22 am

Dz, did u apply for PR on form EEA4? what about the section there about eea history, as u retained right to reside, did u just provide covering letter??? Could u please provide in bullet points what docs u supplied apart from passport, how u filled out the EEA4 and how long they took to process ur application.

As regards your query, u will write a short covering letter and also verbally explain to the NCS worker the rules. U lived in accordance with the Regulations 2006 and hence acquired PR, from the moment of your marroage till divorce all u had to do is be a family member, so u should take ur decree absolute which states the date u married and date divorce finalised, this would cover that period. Then u would show the remaining period activity by you and that's all. The only thing ks that they may want u to wait for a year from the time u got the PR endorsement in passport to apply for natural, not a year from when u automatically got it. Once u show a year on pr, leave the section on EEA nationals blank as you are not an eea national anyway.

If they start asking questions, point them to Schedule2(i think it is) of the regs which says persons with pr are free of immigration control, u dont need your wife for this. U r applying in ur own right, whether u had been still married or in situation like urs

dz_nostalgia
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Post by dz_nostalgia » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:57 pm

mcovet wrote:Dz, did u apply for PR on form EEA4? what about the section there about eea history, as u retained right to reside, did u just provide covering letter??? Could u please provide in bullet points what docs u supplied apart from passport, how u filled out the EEA4 and how long they took to process ur application.

As regards your query, u will write a short covering letter and also verbally explain to the NCS worker the rules. U lived in accordance with the Regulations 2006 and hence acquired PR, from the moment of your marroage till divorce all u had to do is be a family member, so u should take ur decree absolute which states the date u married and date divorce finalised, this would cover that period. Then u would show the remaining period activity by you and that's all. The only thing ks that they may want u to wait for a year from the time u got the PR endorsement in passport to apply for natural, not a year from when u automatically got it. Once u show a year on pr, leave the section on EEA nationals blank as you are not an eea national anyway.

If they start asking questions, point them to Schedule2(i think it is) of the regs which says persons with pr are free of immigration control, u dont need your wife for this. U r applying in ur own right, whether u had been still married or in situation like urs
by the time i'll apply for BC i would have completed 12 month on PR so technically doesnt that make me self suficient in terms of applying on my own rights? my question really do i need to apply as an EEA family member since the Form AN section 2.4 asks that question?

in terms of retention of rights i only followed what the HO telephone operators advised me , i gave them all required document as per the regulation stated in the EU regulation.

bear in mind they will need to see your wife exercising treaty rights until the day of the decree absolute has been pronounced.
make sure you supply as many supporting document as possible (in my case i even gave them stuff from when i was cohabiting)
write a covering letter stating clearly what happened between you two and quote the EU regulation about Retention of Rights.

it took 7 months to get my application sorted , it took 3 months to get COA (it should have taken two weeks instead).

whats you situation at the moment, are you divorced, are things amicable?

to be honest with you as long as you have been married for 3 years, all that time you spouse was exercising treaty rights then you should be ok, it'll be straight forward case.

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Post by mcovet » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:44 pm

you don't have to apply as a family member cause the application AN whilst attempted to include EU national situation, didn't envisage all possibilities.

As regards you reaching 12 months, is it the actual residence card or the automatic right?

If the residence card then you are ok, if the automatic right, they may complicate things, cause they would not know on the face of it how long you have held PR for etc and when you were automatically eligible for it.

If I were you I would apply nevertheless, quoting all the Regulations and proving dates you became entitled to PR and count a year from then.

A covering letter could help. The sectino 2.4 etc is probably for those EU nationals who HAVE NOT got the confirmation of their right of PR and that's why it asks for 6 years' proof, otherwise if someone already holds the PR card, they fall under the "not subject to immigration control" automaticlaly, PR card is proof!!!

I personally haven't got a divorce upcoming, was just wondering whether you used an EEA2 application again to retain rights.

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Post by dz_nostalgia » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:05 pm

mcovet wrote:you don't have to apply as a family member cause the application AN whilst attempted to include EU national situation, didn't envisage all possibilities.

As regards you reaching 12 months, is it the actual residence card or the automatic right?

If the residence card then you are ok, if the automatic right, they may complicate things, cause they would not know on the face of it how long you have held PR for etc and when you were automatically eligible for it.

If I were you I would apply nevertheless, quoting all the Regulations and proving dates you became entitled to PR and count a year from then.

A covering letter could help. The sectino 2.4 etc is probably for those EU nationals who HAVE NOT got the confirmation of their right of PR and that's why it asks for 6 years' proof, otherwise if someone already holds the PR card, they fall under the "not subject to immigration control" automaticlaly, PR card is proof!!!

I personally haven't got a divorce upcoming, was just wondering whether you used an EEA2 application again to retain rights.

thanks for the reply, i have PR sticker now and should complete 12 month in Sep 2011 so from you are saying i can apply on my own right without having to tick Form AN 2.4


the process to apply was the most convoluted way of doing things, the HO staff were not familiar with the regulation, i remember calling them so many time and every single time i get a different answer, some say use EEA4, EEA2, dont use anything and wait untill the 5 years are up etc.....

the impression i got is that each operator interprets the regulation as they see fit, there is no clear way of applying for retention of rights.

the amount of paperwork i sent weighted 7 lbs, half of the paperwork was probably completely uncessary but you never know what the case work might be looking for.

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Post by mcovet » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:48 pm

ok look.

You have 2 options.

1) do not tick 2.4 as you are neither an EU national, nor a family member of eu national, go to section 3.
2) However, technically under the Regs you are a family member of eu national who retained the right of residence so you can tick the second box which says fam memb of eea national and in the tab below where it says please list on what basis you were in the UK for the last 6 years, just write

i.e. 2/3/2005-5/1/2010- family member of EU national exercising treaty rights as a worker residing under Regulation 7(1)(a) and 14(2);

5/5/2010-2/3/2010- family member who retained resid right as a (worker, self-employed etc.) under Regulation 10(5)&(6)(a) and residing in accordance with Reg 14(3);

2/3/2010-2/3/2011- permanent resident under Regulation 15(f)- family member who retained right of residence

And under Schedule 2 paragraph 2(1),

"for the purposes of the British Nationality Act 1981(a), a person who
has a permanent right of residence under regulation 15 shall be regarded as a person who is in the
United Kingdom without being subject under the immigration laws to any restriction on the period for which he may remain."


It's all in here, have a read

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

So I would say you have absolutely nothing to worry about, even if you meet an unknowledgeable caseworker at the NCS, explain to them in bullet point everything and if they refuse to accept, post the application you WILL be fine!!!

Hope this helps and I suggest you take the second route.

mcovet
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Post by mcovet » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:23 am

Same as above applies to you, provide a covering letter detailing your situation. Also read the Guidance on form AN, it has useful info in section 6 about EEA nationals, it is silent about NON-EEA nationals so I presume their oversight!

you can write that the non-eea resided in the UK for 6 years as a family member of an EEA national who exercised treaty rights for 5 of those years and then provide proof of the EEA national exercising treaty rights, the same docs as you used to apply for YOUR and YOUR HUSBAND'S PR presumably!



londonfemale wrote:We are facing similar dilemma but no body has replied to us.
here it is again.
We are married and my husband is non eea.
Help needed here with AN form .
2.4 Please state on what basis you were here for the last six years.Whose details required in this column eea or non eea.
2.5Here it is clear that eea's exercising treaty right has to be written
But whose detail need to be filled on 2.4.
We will be very thankful if someone can guide us .

dz_nostalgia
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Post by dz_nostalgia » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:43 pm

thats great Covet, thanks for that, in fact i have never read that document, well worth it.

to be honest with you option one will be less hassle for me, because if we think about it logically and without trying to guess what Form AN 2.4 is trying to say "are you an EEA or an family member of an EEA" there is no reference to time i.e. have you been an EEA family member.

since i am not an EEA or an EEA family member the logic says to me i shouldnt be ticking that box and should just provide all the document a HSMP person would for example.

funny thing is i have all those documents but you and i know how easily confused the HO and NCS people are (no offence intended) especially when Retention of rights is still a grey area.

londonfemale
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Post by londonfemale » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:25 pm

Thanks macovet
So
I will fill up 6 years detail of non-eea family member in 2.4 .
I will fill up detail of Eea exercising treaty rights in 2.5.
Hopefully we will try with NCs next month.
Thnaks once again

dz_nostalgia
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Post by dz_nostalgia » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:14 pm

londonfemale wrote:Thanks macovet
So
I will fill up 6 years detail of non-eea family member in 2.4 .
I will fill up detail of Eea exercising treaty rights in 2.5.
Hopefully we will try with NCs next month.
Thnaks once again
have you submitted your application yet??

mcovet
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Post by mcovet » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:52 am

Keep us updated when u apply guys let us know how it goes

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