Urgent help needed for UC on ILR and NRPF Partner Dependent.

Mak9878 · Post by **Mak9878** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:57 pm

Hi everyone.

Hope you all are at best of thier health.

I am currently on ILR (through 5 years entrepreneur route) and my wife is on Tier 1 Entrepreneur Dependenr/Partner. We have British born baby boy (on the basis of father had ILR before his birth).

Currenly my application for naturalisation is under process for 1 month and I am on furlough which ending next month. And my wife does 12 hour a week job.

I have applied for universal credit due to pandemic situation and obviously you have to make joint application with your wife nowadays.

They have approved entitlement for me on ILR and did right to reside and habitual residence test on my wife thus approved entitlement.

But in a letter they are considering my wife as ILR, which was clearly mentioned on telephone that she has NRPF (no recourse to public fund) and operator was inputing the details.

My questions are:

1) Shall i need to phone them and let them know my wife status again i.e. NRPF. As i dont want to have anuthing on mu wife name.

2) I just wanted to apply on my ILR basis and child basis. Will it effect my wife Tier 1 Entrepreneur dependent application for 2 years in future?

3) will my current pending naturalization application be affected?

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Regards,

Abdul

Post by **alterhase58** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:45 pm

Sorry can't comment on 1) and 2).

3) will my current pending naturalization application be affected?

Not an issue if you apply/receive benefits you are entitled to.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:55 am

1 & 2
No, of course your NTPF wife cannot have benefit money, the Universal Credit benefit is nothing like the short lived, low income benefit called Tax Credit, that UC replaced. As UC had to be a joint claim (it is benefit fraud to claim you are single when you are not) you are both committing fraud if you take money from the welfare state that you are not allowed. It's up to the claiment/s to make sure they are not taking benefits that they are not allowed. Taking benefits that are not allowed when NRPF, will likely be a breach of their visa.
Read the sticky.
claiming-benefits/universal-credit-clai ... 02126.html

Housing Benfit is another low income benefit that has been replaced by Universal Credit but UC calculates the housing element in a different way, which means extra benefit money might be given for an NRPF partner, which you must not take. See the two links and quote below-

Benefit calculators
https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

Universal Credit
...
If your partner’s leave is subject to a no recourse to public funds restriction, you should seek specialist immigration advice before making a claim, if you and your partner are joint tenants. As your partner’s share of the rent is used to calculate the housing element of Universal Credit, this might be considered as recourse to public funds, which could affect their right to remain in the UK.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

Benefit money for helping those with a mortgage to pay, has ended.

Council Tax Reduction (used to called Council Tax Benefit) now requires those on low income or out of work, to pay towards their council tax bill too. CTR is not part of UC (at the moment) and you apply to the council, but you can still end up getting benefits for a NRPF, which is not allowed as CTR is a Public Fund - then which then gives the same problems as mentioned above. Nor can you claim Council Tax as a single person when you ahve a partner, as that is also benefit fraud.

3. You will need to read the Good Character requirment to see if being found guilt of fraud affects citizenship.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:09 am

Adding, you won't be able to claim New Style JSA (which would not affect you NRPF partner as it is based on your own NI payments) instead of Universal Credit, because you won't qualify for this visa as you are self employed (Entrepreneur).

If your wife has also lost her job and has contributed to the UK in the last two tax years, she could claim New Style JSA, as long as you did not sign a maintenace undertaking for her. New Style JSA is not a public fund, its a contribution based benefit.

Mak9878 · Post by **Mak9878** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:55 am

Thanks for your valuable information.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:10 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:09 am
If your wife has also lost her job and has contributed to the UK in the last two tax years, she could claim New Style JSA, as long as you did not sign a maintenace undertaking for her. New Style JSA is not a public fund, its a contribution based benefit.

I'ver just realised that you said your wife only worked 12 hours a week. If she has lost her job, she won't be able to claim New Sytle JSA either if she has not being earning enough to pay National Insurance Type 1 every week. At present, you need to be employed and earning at least £183 a week to pay Type 1 NICs.

"New Style JSA is a contribution based benefit. Normally, this means you may be able to get it if you’ve paid and/or been credited with enough National Insurance (NI) contributions in the 2 full tax years before the year you’re claiming in."

The bit about NI Credits is misleading because the claimant can use some NI Credits from the previous two tax years for a New Style JSA claim, but the majority has to be their NI Contributions (from being employed and paying Type 1 NICs).

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:28 pm

National Inustrance Credits and National Insurance Contributions, are different and the latter is from working.

And just like NI Contributions, there are different Tiers of NI Credit, which in turn give different things.

Universal Credit claimants only get the Type 3 Credit if they are not paying their own NIC Contributions from working. New Style JSA (which is only payable for a maximum of 6 months and is a Contribuion based benefit) give a Type 1 Credit.

It's the Type 1 NIC Credit that could be used to as part of a claim for the previous two tax years, for a New Style JSA claim. This would mean that the earnings/savings/capital etc of their partner and their own savings/capital etc, would not affect the benefit amount they are given from a Contribution Based benefit.

Mak9878 · Post by **Mak9878** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:59 pm

Thanks JB007 for your valuable info. Really appreciate it.

I just left a message on my wife and my universal credit accout in journal mentioning that "My wife has pbs/dependent visa and no recourse to public fund as mentioned on phone checks and here are her brp details for your guidance."

Later they issued another document that she has failed habitual residency test on the basis she has immigration control and declined her entitlment which they approved by mistake considering her as ILR.

So far so good. Hope she will not have issue in extending her entrepreneur dependent visa in future to complete 6 months remaining to ILR.

Thanks

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:37 pm

Mak9878 wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:59 pm
Thanks JB007 for your valuable info. Really appreciate it.

I just left a message on my wife and my universal credit accout in journal mentioning that "My wife has pbs/dependent visa and no recourse to public fund as mentioned on phone checks and here are her brp details for your guidance."

Later they issued another document that she has failed habitual residency test on the basis she has immigration control and declined her entitlment which they approved by mistake considering her as ILR.

So far so good. Hope she will not have issue in extending her entrepreneur dependent visa in future to complete 6 months remaining to ILR.

Thanks

If you are asking for the housing element of Universal Credit towards your rent, you still have this-

Universal Credit
...
If your partner’s leave is subject to a no recourse to public funds restriction, you should seek specialist immigration advice before making a claim, if you and your partner are joint tenants. As your partner’s share of the rent is used to calculate the housing element of Universal Credit, this might be considered as recourse to public funds, which could affect their right to remain in the UK.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:53 pm

Are you renting? And if you are, is it a joint tenancy (your wife's name on the tenancy too)?
The DWP (who deal with Universal Credit) are not UKVI (who decide if a person has been in breach of their visa).

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:06 pm

I didn't copy and paste the link to turn2us correctly. Here is the quote and correct links from my earlier post in your thread.

JB007 wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:55 am
Housing Benfit is another low income benefit that has been replaced by Universal Credit but UC calculates the housing element in a different way, which means extra benefit money might be given for an NRPF partner, which you must not take. See the two links and quote below-

Benefit calculators
https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

Universal Credit
...
If your partner’s leave is subject to a no recourse to public funds restriction, you should seek specialist immigration advice before making a claim, if you and your partner are joint tenants. As your partner’s share of the rent is used to calculate the housing element of Universal Credit, this might be considered as recourse to public funds, which could affect their right to remain in the UK.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

Mak9878 · Post by **Mak9878** » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:49 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:53 pm
Are you renting? And if you are, is it a joint tenancy (your wife's name on the tenancy too)?
The DWP (who deal with Universal Credit) are not UKVI (who decide if a person has been in breach of their visa).

Thanks Jb007.

I am on joint tenancy agreement with my brother. My wife name is neither on tenency agreement nor in council tax and even not in any home bills. And i have clearly mentioned this to them.

Hope it will be okay.

Thanks

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:32 pm

Mak9878 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:49 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:53 pm
Are you renting? And if you are, is it a joint tenancy (your wife's name on the tenancy too)?
The DWP (who deal with Universal Credit) are not UKVI (who decide if a person has been in breach of their visa).
Thanks Jb007.

I am on joint tenancy agreement with my brother. My wife name is neither on tenency agreement nor in council tax and even not in any home bills. And i have clearly mentioned this to them.

Hope it will be okay.

Thanks

For Universal Credit, it seems to be the joint tenency that can causes the problems, when one partner cannot have UK public funds.

If you are still claiming Universal Credit when your wife receives ILR, you are required to tell UC that you wife has ILR. She will then be subject to work requirements too, but her required weekly earnings will be based on the age of your son as she is the "lead carer" (of your child/ren).
https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/you ... sibilities

If you are still self employed/have your own company (as required for your the entreprener visa you used for ILR), the MIF (Minimum Income Floor) for UC has been waived until April 2021 because of Covid-19.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:48 pm

Mak9878 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:49 am
And i have clearly mentioned this to them.

Just to make it quite clear for anybody else reading this, it is up to the welfare claimant to make sure they do not take what they cannot have and it is fraud if you do and fraud if you do not give the correct information. For those who cannot have UK public funds, the benefit staff are not immigration experts; it is up to you to make sure that you are not in breach of your visa.

There could(?) be some(?) give with UKVI IF you can prove you told that relevant benefit agency that you could not have Public Funds but they still gave this public fund, but you still have to pay that benfit money back.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:39 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:32 pm

If you are still self employed/have your own company (as required for your the entreprener visa you used for ILR), the MIF (Minimum Income Floor) for UC has been waived until April 2021 because of Covid-19.

Forget about this MIF for those who are self employed/have a company, I have just read that when you got ILR in October 2019, you closed your business due to continuous loss. It therefore seems you are claiming UC as unempolyed or on a low income as an employee?

If you don't earn the mimimum weekly amount 35 hours a week at at the national hourly minimum wage, you will be subject to the UC conditions as other jobseeker are. As shown in the link I gave, Universal Credit requires both parents to earn a minimum weekly amount (when your wife has ILR).
british-citizenship/help-needed-for-bri ... 07258.html

It also seems to read from your thread that you have been claming Universal Credit for the past 11 Months? Any overpayments given for your NRPF wife, will have to be paid back. I'm not sure what happens for an ILR application if she has taken extra UC benefits for herself via your joint UC claim you made, because UC is a public fund - And you were not allowed to claim means tested benefits as a single person/parent as that is benefit fraud.

Also, some welfare benefit claimants are not aware of a change the UK made for low/no income, benefits. In 2015 the UK brought in a 2 child limit for low income benefits and it was annouced in parliament that this would mean that other EEA countries would now pay more in beneifts than the UK. For the UK, this means that regardless of how many children welfare benefit claimants have, the UK will only pay for two children. This not only affected the Universal Credit benefit, but also those claiming the old benefits that Universal Credit replaced.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:49 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:39 pm
In 2015 the UK brought in a 2 child limit for low income benefits

Typo, it was 2016. Typo noticed after it was too late to amend my original post.

Mak9878 · Post by **Mak9878** » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:41 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:39 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:32 pm

If you are still self employed/have your own company (as required for your the entreprener visa you used for ILR), the MIF (Minimum Income Floor) for UC has been waived until April 2021 because of Covid-19.
Forget about this MIF for those who are self employed/have a company, I have just read that when you got ILR in October 2019, you closed your business due to continuous loss. It therefore seems you are claiming UC as unempolyed or on a low income as an employee? Closed company but i started working from Janaury 2020 onwards on payrol 40 hours a week and my wife was on maternity. Did not claim UC that time. Just applied UC in november 2020

If you don't earn the mimimum weekly amount 35 hours a week at at the national hourly minimum wage, you will be subject to the UC conditions as other jobseeker are. As shown in the link I gave, Universal Credit requires both parents to earn a minimum weekly amount (when your wife has ILR).
british-citizenship/help-needed-for-bri ... 07258.html

It also seems to read from your thread that you have been claming Universal Credit for the past 11 Months? Any overpayments given for your NRPF wife, will have to be paid back. I'm not sure what happens for an ILR application if she has taken extra UC benefits for herself via your joint UC claim you made, because UC is a public fund - And you were not allowed to claim means tested benefits as a single person/parent as that is benefit fraud. just applied UC previous month. I am still on furlough scheme and hope to join from January 2021. Just applied UC because if in case they kick me out from furlough for december, then UC will pay me something to cover cost. I did fill UC application back in March 2020, but did not submit because company confirmed that i have been put on furlough scheme/glow]

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