ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Arrested at wedding despite permission

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

Zimsparta
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Zimsparta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:26 am

My husband and I were about to get married at the registrars office today
Beginning of May we had the permission from the HO as we complied with their investigations.

My husband has been arrested in March and released on Bail in April. He was arrested as an illegal entrant.
He complied with the bail conditions.

At the wedding venue he got arrested.
the immigration officers said the bail was cancelled.
I asked then why today and not last time he end to sign. They said, "that's what we decide"
(Told them they were wicked. As They went out they were smiling"
I told him.I had permission from home office. He said 'yes you can legally get married here' I said then why do you take him away? He said 'cause that's what we decide'

Their policy says that once permission is granted and notice is over NO IMMIGRATION OFFICER HAS THE POWER TO STOP THE WEDDING.
They did not issue a form IS91R to give notice and reasons of detention.
What can I do?
What is their legal right to do this?

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14883
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Obie » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:03 am

Was he on bail or temporary admission?

Was reasons given for revocation of bail or temporary admission?

The cannot breach a person right to marriage and form a family.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

Noetic
Member of Standing
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:34 am

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Noetic » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:21 am

HO may technically have no power to stop someone getting married once approved BUT we are talking about someone breaking the law here who has previously been arrested for this offence.

Having permission to get married does NOT make you immune from being arrested for offences you have either committed in the past or commit after attaining permission to marry.

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by noajthan » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:27 am

All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Zimsparta
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Zimsparta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:26 am


As I said, he has been free on Bail. He complied with the bail conditions.
After the release they issued the permission to get married!
What are you trying to say here with your link.
Jr did wrong and he admitted to it.
Point is that they have us permission,
Let us book the venue. But rings. People travel to attend and then they turn up at venue to take him without issuing a notice or any explanation

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by noajthan » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:34 am

Zimsparta wrote:
...
What are you trying to say here with your link.
...
The link is simply contextual history to your case.

UKVI officials (or whoever it was) must have acted for a reason. It may have to do with the history to the case.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Zimsparta
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Zimsparta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:08 am

Obie wrote:Was he on bail or temporary admission?

Was reasons given for revocation of bail or temporary admission?

The cannot breach a person right to marriage and form a family.
He was on bail and complied with conditions. He had to sign every two weeks. When they turned up yesterday they just said 'bail is cancelled'
when i asked why now why here they said 'thats what we decide'
No notice IS91R No explanation, no breach of bail conditions,
I said I had permission to get married from Secretary of state. They said 'yes you can legally get married in the uk'
I said then why do you take him now? they said 'thats what we decide'
It was definitely an arbitrary arrest to prevent him from getting married and therefore gaining right to this wonderful country

Zimsparta
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Zimsparta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:35 am

noajthan wrote:
Zimsparta wrote:
...
What are you trying to say here with your link.
...
The link is simply contextual history to your case.

UKVI officials (or whoever it was) must have acted for a reason. It may have to do with the history to the case.
What history?
They themselves have given permission to get married. they have mandatory instructions that they cannot stop a marriage.
They have not issued any reasons at that point apart from him being illegal in the country, He has been illegal the last Friday he went to sign. Why wait for the wedding venue.?
This is arbitrariness!
It is clear strategy to avoid getting access to a legal stay.
Or they could have arrsted him after ceremony.
This is very clear when they walk way laughing

User avatar
Casa
Moderator
Posts: 25139
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:32 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Casa » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:41 am

You're absolutely correct that it was a means to preventing access to a legal stay and they knew exactly where to find him.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14883
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Obie » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:47 am

That is unlawful. He must seek an interim relief from the court to have his bail reinstated.

It is a blatant abuse of power.

If an immigration judge grants bail, that bail can only be revoked if there has been a change of circumstances since it was granted. Getting married is a right which can be exercised by people in Prison or detention. Getting married cannot amount to breach of this right.

The detention, revocation of bail are all evidence of total disregard for the rule of law.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

avjones
Diamond Member
Posts: 1566
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: London

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by avjones » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:08 pm

these cases are very, very difficult.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Adm ... /1099.html
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14883
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Obie » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:22 pm

The facts are very different.

One was the case of a person entering by deception .

The other involves an abuse of power, where the Secretary of State seek to use her power in an unlawful and illicit manner to stop a matriage which has been investigated and found to be lawful .
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

avjones
Diamond Member
Posts: 1566
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: London

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by avjones » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:27 pm

Of course the facts are very different.

But, nevertheless, while a person might have a lawful ability to marry in the UK that isn't the same an a right to do so.

It's not a hopeless case at all. But it is a difficult one.
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14883
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Obie » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:36 pm

The issue hear for me is whether the secretary of state can overrule the decision of an immigration judge by revoking bail, when there has not been a change of circumstances.

It appears the sole purpose of revoking bail was to discript the marriage. That is abuse of power.

Bail cab be revoked if the basis for which bail was granted has creased to exist or the person has breached the conditions attached to his bail.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

Zimsparta
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Zimsparta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:39 pm

Casa wrote:You're absolutely correct that it was a means to preventing access to a legal stay and they knew exactly where to find him.
I was wondering if they gave him permission because they had no proof against a genuine relationship but they dont want him to get married so they told the registry office to le them know when he books the appointment so that they can prevent it from happening.
As soon as he is in detention I will tell him to apply to get married. because since they said their investigation was satisfactory, he can get married even in detention

avjones
Diamond Member
Posts: 1566
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: London

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by avjones » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:39 pm

The permission letter - look at it again.

It usually says the Home Office don't accept by giving permission that the relationship is genuine?
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14883
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Obie » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:48 pm

I have seen what they write on their letter. To be honest I really could not care less. My focus is on the statutory power, and the purpose of its grant.
My mind is very clear on that.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

Zimsparta
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Zimsparta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:31 pm

Yes they say it does not mean that the relationship is genuine and in case of New application they may do another interview to determine the genuiness.

Nevertheless the document states that we complied with the investigation and that we can proceed with the marriage.

Their handbook clearly says that no immigration officer has the right to stop that marriage from happening.
nail conditions have not been breached.
no reasons were given apart from ' He is illegal in the country'
Now he is in custody for 24 hours. I rung custody at 13.00h to find out what is happening. They don't pick my call and when they pick they don't talk and after a minute they hang up.

I don't know what's happening

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14883
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Obie » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:33 pm

What reason was given for detention..

He would have been provided with reasons.

Apply for Haebea corpus , from the court or apply for another bail ASAP..
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

avjones
Diamond Member
Posts: 1566
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: London

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by avjones » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:39 pm

Start with the notices for detention. What reasons are given?

Is removal imminent? Have removal directions been set, or a "removal window" notified to him?
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

Zimsparta
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Zimsparta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:46 pm

At the time of the arrest he did not hear their reasons. He very likely has a mental health condition he has ADHS and has a problem to focus when he has too many emotions and information going down on him.

He wasnt given a document or anything.
I asked and why and they said 'because he is illegal in the country' Then I said but he is on bail.
Answer was 'Bail is cancelled'
question why and why at that point and not another and they said,'cause thats what we decide'

Lawyer telling me something about 2000£ and 650 upfront.
I don't have that.
So I just have to let them win with their wicked games.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14883
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Obie » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:49 pm

There is no reason why you must let them win. You have to fight for your right .

Evil cannot be allowee to prevail over good.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

secret.simon
Moderator
Posts: 9062
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by secret.simon » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:34 pm

Obie wrote:Evil cannot be allowee to prevail over good.
This is an immigration forum, not a theological one.

One man's evil is another's good. It is an opinion after all, with no objective test.

I would much rather go by the rule of law. And your argument should be be tested in court rather than being decided by police officers.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14883
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Obie » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:50 pm

Well you are a smart person, but i am not convinced that theology (the study of the nature of God and religious belief) and Moral (concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour) are one of your strongest area.

If not for the situation that OP is going through I may have indulge in a bit of debate on the two.

Suffice to say, the world evil and good are not matter vocabulary that are confined to the nature of God and religious belief.

They are used mostly to distinguish moral and immoral act, which you may want to read up on. It may help.

Coming back you you OP, I believe it will be best to get you partner to set out the reasons given for the detention.

I do apologise for the ill-thought interference.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

Zimsparta
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Re: Arrested at wedding despite permission

Post by Zimsparta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:51 pm

avjones wrote:Start with the notices for detention. What reasons are given?

Is removal imminent? Have removal directions been set, or a "removal window" notified to him?
The first notice of detention?


We are also waiting for a tribunal.
I just had an email from german embassy saying if the marriage is legal in the country where it was conducted, It is also legal in Germany. That means I am legally married by proxy.
The home office secretary came up with some things which were simply untrue. like saying the certificate was not registered within 4 weeks but it was registered in 2 weeks. they said i wasn't excerscising my treaty right but i did.

He is now in custody since yesterday and his lawyer is asking me this night for the fax number of the home office in Leeds. I asked him if he did not fax it to them. he said to he sent fax to Liverpool and Leeds and also via royal mail.

When he was detained last time his former lawyer go the Home office to have two meetings with and responded to her within hours.
My new lawyer is pressuring me to get 650£ and writes a letter and waits for their response.
He was screaming at me telling me i am not listening when i asked him some questions about how they had the right to arrest him.
I have to take his abuse because i am depending on his help.

He is telling me they think its a sham marriage thats why they took him away
i told him that they did not say anything about sham marriage when they came. I asked how he knew what they thought when he said he does not know their reasons until they get back to him.

I am really confused

Locked
cron