Can my father be dependent of my EEA spouse?

BClassBritish wrote:Thanks for your concern here but its definitely not a sham marriage. Me and my wife have been together for years so I dont think HO will do down this route.

The only confirmation I want is if the HO can object that my dad was already inside the UK before he became dependendent on my wife?

Noone can confirm that as HO are a law to themselves despite what EU law/Directive and related case law says.
Even the most open and shut cases are not waved through with benefit of doubt.
As already suggested, you are likely to face initial refusal and have a battle on your hands.

Indeed, as an example, they have refused an applicant because the applicant knows the law. Then, the Regulations are rewritten to suit their interpretation.

noajthan wrote:

BClassBritish wrote:Thanks for your concern here but its definitely not a sham marriage. Me and my wife have been together for years so I dont think HO will do down this route.

The only confirmation I want is if the HO can object that my dad was already inside the UK before he became dependendent on my wife?

Noone can confirm that as HO are a law to themselves despite what EU law/Directive and related case law says.
Even the most open and shut cases are not waved through with benefit of doubt.
As already suggested, you are likely to face initial refusal and have a battle on your hands.

Does my father qualify under the EU regulations or is there ambiguity in that as well?

Thanks

I appreciate that. What i am saying is, the Home Office has changed the law, such that it is not only sham marriages that will be refused on marriage of convenience basis, but any marriage designed to circumvent the immigration rules.

They have gone to the extent of refusing appeal rights in these case.

I envisage lots of fight in the new year as there has not been any refusal on this new rules.

I envisage based on my reading of these new laws, that you may fell foul of it.

I think your lawyer did a very bad job in leading you in this direction.

BClassBritish wrote:Does my father qualify under the EU regulations or is there ambiguity in that as well?

Thanks

My understanding is its not black and white.
You need to make a case and prove dependency - as already explained.

Case law is on your side (as already explained) however there is no guarantee HO plays ball.
And you have overcome or dodged one major obstacle as father is already in country.
If he was abroad and you were first attempting to apply for a FP (ie to gain his entry to UK) you would face a much more challenging process.
As it is you are at second stage of demonstrating and confirming father's status in UK.

HO are likely to force you to an appeal or some sort of court battle.
You may win.
If however you cannot make a case for father as dependent family member (or lose the argument) there are likely to be consequences due to the clear intent/attempt (of father) to settle;
for example future UK visit visas may not be granted (if your father ever had to rely on them in future).

vinny wrote:Indeed, as an example, they have refused an applicant because the applicant knows the law. Then, the Regulations are rewritten to suit their interpretation.

[b]“marriage of convenience[/b] wrote:
“marriage of convenience” includes a marriage entered into for the purpose of using these Regulations, or any other right conferred by the EU Treaties, as a means to circumvent—
(a)immigration rules applying to non-EEA nationals (such as any applicable requirement under the 1971 Act to have leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom); or
(b)any other criteria that the party to the marriage of convenience would otherwise have to meet in order to enjoy a right to reside under these Regulations or the EU Treaties;

The above changes really troubles me, and it appears that it will be in effect by the time OP goes to court.

Sorry I keep on coming back here as my mind is racing like mad and I dont trust lawyers any more. They charge money to always give me conflicting advice. I will probably have some serious mental illness by the time all this is over.

Last night I came up with the brilliant idea of renouncing my British Citizenship. That way my father will be non-EEA dependent of a non-EEA spouse of a EEA citizen.

Do you guys think this could work or would the HO object and say the citizenship was renounced just to circumvent the rules?

Thanks,

If you originate from a country like India, the effect of the revocation will live you stateless as you would have lost your Indian citizenship when you naturalised.

It will not be lawful for the UK to permit you to do that under international law.

If the UK's interpretation of India's nationality laws was such that India can reinstate your Indian Citizenship after you renounce your British citizenship, then it would just be too bad if the Indian Government did not reinstate your Indian citizenship. You becoming stateless would not be the fault of the UK.

Hi

Thanks for your concern but I am from a country that allows dual citizenships. Not saying the name as I am scared bloody HO people might be reading this.

So assuming I do manage to surrender my British citizenship:

Do you guys think this could work or would the HO object and say the citizenship was renounced just to circumvent the rules?

Thanks

vinny wrote:If the UK's interpretation of India's nationality laws was such that India can reinstate your Indian Citizenship after you renounce your British citizenship, then it would just be too bad if the Indian Government did not reinstate your Indian citizenship. You becoming stateless would not be the fault of the UK.

Thankfully OP is from a country that permits dual citizenship so we need not worry.

Vinny has the court not overturned that view?

In this case OP will be taking a voluntary action as opposed to involuntary one taken against people the government described as undesirables.

I do remember an Upper Tribunal Judge telling me that the Secretary reasonable belief must be statutory based.

But EU law may also be in Play. I remember the case law on this Austrian guy who had acquired German citizenship without disclosing convictions. The court ruled that even though citizenship was within the scope of memberstates, they must take account of the person union citizenship in the decision making .

BClassBritish wrote:Hi

Thanks for your concern but I am from a country that allows dual citizenships. Not saying the name as I am scared bloody HO people might be reading this.

So assuming I do manage to surrender my British citizenship:

Do you guys think this could work or would the HO object and say the citizenship was renounced just to circumvent the rules?

Thanks

I appreciate you not wanting to disclose your dual nationality.

Did your father declare himself as self sufficient and has sufficient funds when he secured his visitors visa? Or did he show he was dependent on you and your then girlfriend, now wife?

My father applied for a 10 year visitor visa about 4 years ago. I was the main sponsor back then. My then girl friend and now wife wasnt mentioned in the application.

Thanks,

Before they give your dad that 10 years visa, he would have shown he has sufficient ties to his home country, and there are sufficient basis why he will come back.

I don't believe he would have been given that visa if his sole basis was that he is fully dependent on you, and coming to visit you. He would have said more than that.

You remind me of a dependency case of an Austrian guy, and his parents, he said he had been supporting his parents for years.

I was in the hearing, when bundle of documents were served from British High Commission in Islamabad, showing that his father had disclosed ownership of business in his visa application, ownership of shares, and sufficient funds in his account.

Just fortunate that there was a good judge who did not appreciate a party being ambushed.

So just a word of advise, be consistent.

Hi All,

My wife is an EU national working in the UK for over 10 years. She has always worked with no breaks so applying for a Permanent Residence card should be quick and easy.

However we will soon be applying for a family permit for my non EEA father to be her dependent.

If she applies for PR and gets it, would she still be able to sponsor my father?
Also what if she acquires British citizenship?

Many Thanks,

1) Yes - with proof of dependency.

2) No.

Thanks noajthan.

Couple of more questions:

1) My private messages have stopped working once again. I think they only got enabled when I did my first 30 odd posts and after that I sent a few PM's and then they got blocked.

2) What would be the best way for me to show emtional and physical dependency of my father on my spouse. For e.g. my wife helps my father in exercising and basic walking(recommended by doctor). Because of pain he becomes quite stubborn and only listens to her some times otherwise just stays in bed which means his health deteriorates even further. Also she does his weekly medicines etc But I cant really prove all this unless I put videos of all this on youtube.

Many Thanks,

Question - is your father using the NHS and if so, is he paying for ALL his NHS services/visits/medicines?

What is happening when you try to send a PM? I have just tested your permissions and it all seems fine.

CR001 wrote:Question - is your father using the NHS and if so, is he paying for ALL his NHS services/visits/medicines?

What is happening when you try to send a PM? I have just tested your permissions and it all seems fine.

I went through it also and it seems fine aswell.

CR001 wrote:Question - is your father using the NHS and if so, is he paying for ALL his NHS services/visits/medicines?

What is happening when you try to send a PM? I have just tested your permissions and it all seems fine.

Obie/CR001,

Thanks my PM's are working now.
He does not use the NHS. All his treatment so far has been done privately and I have paid for it.

Sorry to bother the admins agian but I am not authorized to PM once again. Can some one pls have a look.

Thanks

Hi All,

I am back

Quick recap:
I am british and my very ill father has been living with me for the past 2+ years while his discretionary leave application is being considered by the HO and the first tier tribunal(in v near future).

I have a European wife and my father is dependent on her.

If we want to apply for a residence card for my father as a dependent of a European citizen(my wife) then:

1) Would we make an extended family member application or a direct family member application?

2) Do we need to fill in a formor can we just explain the situation on a cover letter and attach relevant proofs with it?

3) Would we have to send my wifes original pp with the application?

Many Thanks,

Obie, Noajthan, anybody?

Thanks,

Dear moderators, why did you delete my post where I gave an answer to a previous question?

1) Direct family member

2) Since February 1st, you are required to apply for any EEA documentation using the specified form.

3) Does she have a French national ID card that she can use?