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Detain/Bail letter received

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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Osafidence
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Detain/Bail letter received

Post by Osafidence » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:37 pm

Hi everyone your thoughts and response are highly appreciated. Thank you

I applied for PR as extended family member of EEA national and i was refused late April 2018 based on my solicitor didnt fill if am dependant or member of house hold and also stated it appears am financially independent ....... appeal right was given which i appealed early may and got a hearing date last week but i was put on floater, so the Appeal didnt hold and i was given another date.

I got a letter from the sign on department and they are now subjecting me to come and be signing every 2 weeks at the home office police station. The letter also stated no right to work......then at the bottom of the letter it stated this does not apply to EU National and theirfamily members.

My questions is are extended family members of EEA National subjected to these after Refusal of their Permanent Residence? :?:

Osafidence
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by Osafidence » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:41 am

Any advice please?

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alterhase58
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by alterhase58 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:49 am

at the bottom of the letter it stated this does not apply to EU National and their family members.
So you don't have a problem. Unless there is something missing from your explanations?
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice - they will be ignored

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Casa
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by Casa » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:03 pm

alterhase58 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:49 am
at the bottom of the letter it stated this does not apply to EU National and their family members.
So you don't have a problem. Unless there is something missing from your explanations?
I believe it does apply to extended family members.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

conote80
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by conote80 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:59 pm

Casa wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:03 pm
alterhase58 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:49 am
at the bottom of the letter it stated this does not apply to EU National and their family members.
So you don't have a problem. Unless there is something missing from your explanations?
I believe it does apply to extended family members.
I thought when you're granted 5 years based on EFM, you become a FM?

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CR001
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by CR001 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:02 pm

conote80 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:59 pm
Casa wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:03 pm
alterhase58 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:49 am
at the bottom of the letter it stated this does not apply to EU National and their family members.
So you don't have a problem. Unless there is something missing from your explanations?
I believe it does apply to extended family members.
I thought when you're granted 5 years based on EFM, you become a FM?
An extended FM remains an extended FM, getting a RC doesn't change that.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

eubritish
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by eubritish » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:58 pm

CR001 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:02 pm
conote80 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:59 pm
Casa wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:03 pm
alterhase58 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:49 am


So you don't have a problem. Unless there is something missing from your explanations?
I believe it does apply to extended family members.
I thought when you're granted 5 years based on EFM, you become a FM?
An extended FM remains an extended FM, getting a RC doesn't change that.
Extended family member who is issued an EEA Family Permit or a residence card is counted as *Family* member, not extended.

conote80
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by conote80 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:45 pm

eubritish wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:58 pm
CR001 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:02 pm

An extended FM remains an extended FM, getting a RC doesn't change that.
Extended family member who is issued an EEA Family Permit or a residence card is counted as *Family* member, not extended.
Interesting arguments. Anyone with any other info on that?

Osafidence
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by Osafidence » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:42 pm

These Extended family member thing only exist before you gain you residence card under Regulation 8....afterwards you gain PR has non EEA family member under Regulation 15(1b)

I guess you are class as family member after the issuance of RC.... just my thoughts....am not 100% sure.

secret.simon
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by secret.simon » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:09 am

eubritish wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:58 pm
Extended family member who is issued an EEA Family Permit or a residence card is counted as *Family* member, not extended.
Osafidence wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:42 pm
I guess you are class as family member after the issuance of RC
I believe that CR001 is correct in that the status of an EFM does not change to being an FM on receipt of a Residence Card
CR001 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:02 pm
An extended FM remains an extended FM, getting a RC doesn't change that.
Regulation 7(3) of the EEA Regulations 2016 wrote:(3) A person (“B”) who is an extended family member and has been issued with an EEA family permit, a registration certificate or a residence card must be treated as a family member of A, provided—
(a) B continues to satisfy the conditions in regulation 8(2), (3), (4) or (5); and
(b) the EEA family permit, registration certificate or residence card remains in force.
The inherent characteristic of the EFM does not change on receipt of the Residence Card. It is merely that s/he is treated as an FM, conditional on holding a Residence Card AND on continuing to meet the requirements listed in Regulation 8 (i.e. being dependent on the EEA citizen sponsor or being a member of their household or a durable partner). If the person ceases to meet the requirements of Regulation 8, he ceases to be treated as an FM, even if he continues to hold a Residence Card.

It is worth remembering that documentation issued under the EEA Regulations are not visas. They only certify that a specific state of affairs exists (i.e, that one is an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights, is the spouse of an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights, etc). If that state of affairs comes to an end, any rights under the EEA regulations cease to be, even if you hold documentation under the EEA Regulations. Such documentation does not give any independent rights, it only certifies the presence of rights based on an underlying state of affairs. If the state of affairs ceases, the rights cease.

It is also worth remembering that rights of EFMs are a matter for national legislation and not directly EU law. All that the EU requires is that the Member-state "facilitiate" the EFMs. The Member-state also may impose requirements as regards the duration and nature of dependence. See the ECJ Rahman judgment.

To recap, only Family Members as defined in Directive 2004/38/EC have rights granted under the Directive itself. EFMs do not become FMs on the receipt of a Residence Card. UK law provides that they are treated as such provided they continue to meet the requirements of being an EFM.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

conote80
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Re: Detain/Bail letter received

Post by conote80 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:10 pm

secret.simon wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:09 am
eubritish wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:58 pm
Extended family member who is issued an EEA Family Permit or a residence card is counted as *Family* member, not extended.
Osafidence wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:42 pm
I guess you are class as family member after the issuance of RC
I believe that CR001 is correct in that the status of an EFM does not change to being an FM on receipt of a Residence Card
CR001 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:02 pm
An extended FM remains an extended FM, getting a RC doesn't change that.
Regulation 7(3) of the EEA Regulations 2016 wrote:(3) A person (“B”) who is an extended family member and has been issued with an EEA family permit, a registration certificate or a residence card must be treated as a family member of A, provided—
(a) B continues to satisfy the conditions in regulation 8(2), (3), (4) or (5); and
(b) the EEA family permit, registration certificate or residence card remains in force.
The inherent characteristic of the EFM does not change on receipt of the Residence Card. It is merely that s/he is treated as an FM, conditional on holding a Residence Card AND on continuing to meet the requirements listed in Regulation 8 (i.e. being dependent on the EEA citizen sponsor or being a member of their household or a durable partner). If the person ceases to meet the requirements of Regulation 8, he ceases to be treated as an FM, even if he continues to hold a Residence Card.

It is worth remembering that documentation issued under the EEA Regulations are not visas. They only certify that a specific state of affairs exists (i.e, that one is an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights, is the spouse of an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights, etc). If that state of affairs comes to an end, any rights under the EEA regulations cease to be, even if you hold documentation under the EEA Regulations. Such documentation does not give any independent rights, it only certifies the presence of rights based on an underlying state of affairs. If the state of affairs ceases, the rights cease.

It is also worth remembering that rights of EFMs are a matter for national legislation and not directly EU law. All that the EU requires is that the Member-state "facilitiate" the EFMs. The Member-state also may impose requirements as regards the duration and nature of dependence. See the ECJ Rahman judgment.

To recap, only Family Members as defined in Directive 2004/38/EC have rights granted under the Directive itself. EFMs do not become FMs on the receipt of a Residence Card. UK law provides that they are treated as such provided they continue to meet the requirements of being an EFM.
Thanks for that. Now we've got clarity

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