Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Unluckyeea2 · Post by **Unluckyeea2** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:46 pm

Hi everyone !
Thanks to all for updates .
@Silverman congratulations and Thank you for sharing good news .

AlfaBeta123 · Post by **AlfaBeta123** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:30 pm

Bumping this post to see if anyone can add valuable advise please?

AlfaBeta123 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:39 pm
First of all thank you everyone who has shared their experience, opinion and advise! It is very much appreciated.

As you may be aware, I'm a dual citizen who obtained BC last January. My husband was sponsored through the EU route (he has now become a BC). I've just been reading some comments on the new case and it seems that people advise me that even the extended family member of an eu national is protected (as long as I still have the PR:).

His sister (my sister in law, adult, ) was sponsored as well as an extended family member of EU national by me through the EU route. She obtained her RC,which expires in this November.
She is planning to go back to her non EU country in October to get a civil ceremony with her BF (who lives in a non EU country). That's a worry for later.
However will the boarder agency be difficult if there is only 1 month left on the Residence card ? She will be travelling alone. Will they let her back in again (supposedly she went on holiday)?
Will there be a note on the system, that I have in the mean time obtained my BC and will this cause problems at the airport? Knowing our border officers are doing such a great job in what they are supposed to do...

just want to ensure she avoids any issues and plans things ahead.
Apologies if this is not the right section for this question.
Thanks in advance!

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:34 pm

Hi AlfaBeta123,

They can detain her for further questioning. If I were her I would submit my case, plea for passport return without application and then make travel arrangements. When I said detain her, I meant if she reveals that she went to get married they might question her future planing (so you thinking that few days in her RC expiring may be completely irrelevant but that's just me). Please be advised that EU route for EFM is not valid anymore, however, those who already obtained there cards will be exempted from this. It might not be a hassle free arrival back to England for her. Contrarily, Law is in her favor, When I traveled inn-out from UK unaware of the situation that my spouse Dual nationality can cause complication for my future stay in UK or at the airport while returning from holidays, luckily HO did not even ask any question probably they did not update their system. Can't say for sure how it works, but I think you acquiring British nationality following British passport and then traveling on that passport is what bring you in their radar. All in all as per my observation and study from previous similar cases she will get persimmon to enter (again it is just me). But why take risk last minute, when she waited 5 years, it will be prudent to either obtain PRC or submit application and after bio-metric info plan her journey. I didn't mean to scare you but just sharing possible outcomes and I am not an expert it's just my opinion, for more detail please seek legal help unless a Guru can comment on your case.

marcsiga · Post by **marcsiga** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:37 pm

Hi Guys,

We posted PR application on 04/09/2018.All went well(according to others timeline) until BrP fingerprint.Since then nonsign from homeoffice.
When I read about others, i see people applied after us and they already got PR.
We didnt even receive COA ;-((
Any one applied in September ?
Do u think it will take longer time because of dual nationality?

Thank you,
Maria

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 pm

marcsiga wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:37 pm
Hi Guys,

We posted PR application on 04/09/2018.All went well(according to others timeline) until BrP fingerprint.Since then nonsign from homeoffice.
When I read about others, i see people applied after us and they already got PR.
We didnt even receive COA ;-((
Any one applied in September ?
Do u think it will take longer time because of dual nationality?

Thank you,
Maria

Hi Maria,

I believe every case has its own skeleton and structure hence a delayed or earlier result, both outcome are possible. I did not even receive COA. Don't give it too much thought, as long as all the requirements are in place i.e. paper work in regards to supporting documents and the 4 basic pillar, I believe you know.. you should not be worried. Some people received it after 45 days. Those who received their BRPs within 1 or 2 months, most of them are EU nationals as it is easier for them and mostly the case is straight forward. In your/our case there is a sponsor and a TCN, so they will take their time. It could merely be a laid-back case worker or there might be complication i.e. they should allow ur partner to work or not and if you receive your COA and he is not allowed to work, is not it better and you don't receive it at all? Like I said don't look too much at others achievement or defeat, your time will come and every thing will be all right as long as you provided what they are after. Good luck.

marcsiga · Post by **marcsiga** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:58 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 pm

marcsiga wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:37 pm
Hi Guys,

We posted PR application on 04/09/2018.All went well(according to others timeline) until BrP fingerprint.Since then nonsign from homeoffice.
When I read about others, i see people applied after us and they already got PR.
We didnt even receive COA ;-((
Any one applied in September ?
Do u think it will take longer time because of dual nationality?

Thank you,
Maria
Hi Maria,

I believe every case has its own skeleton and structure hence a delayed or earlier result, both outcome are possible. I did not even receive COA. Don't give it too much thought, as long as all the requirements are in place i.e. paper work in regards to supporting documents and the 4 basic pillar, I believe you know.. you should not be worried. Some people received it after 45 days. Those who received their BRPs within 1 or 2 months, most of them are EU nationals as it is easier for them and mostly the case is straight forward. In your/our case there is a sponsor and a TCN, so they will take their time. It could merely be a laid-back case worker or there might be complication i.e. they should allow ur partner to work or not and if you receive your COA and he is not allowed to work, is not it better and you don't receive it at all? Like I said don't look too much at others achievement or defeat, your time will come and every thing will be all right as long as you provided what they are after. Good luck.

Hi kam999,

Thank u so much for taking ur time&energy reading and replying to mu post!

U did give me some good advice and u r right, it is difficult to wait;-(

I am just keepnon beingna silent reader and keep on praying .
Eventually somthing will happen

Thank u so much Kam

marcsiga · Post by **marcsiga** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:30 pm

Hi guys,

I got the COA today

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:13 pm

marcsiga wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:30 pm
Hi guys,

I got the COA today

Great! Soon you will get ur brp as well.

marcsiga · Post by **marcsiga** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:20 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:13 pm

marcsiga wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:30 pm
Hi guys,

I got the COA today
Great! Soon you will get ur brp as well.

I really hope so!! Thank u so much for ur encouragement Kam!! U give hope to all of us all time! I am just a silent reader but i can tell what a big support u are for us!!
Thank u ,
Maria

oneglasseyed · Post by **oneglasseyed** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:55 pm

Hi All,

Apologies but we have been silent readers for the past few months & think it’s about time to share our story too. I am an EU & UK citizen, following the Lounes case since February 2017 & waited until the ECJ ruling in November 2017 before applying.

Timeline:
Arrived in the UK from EU: 2009
Naturalised in the UK: 2016
EEA Family Application: 20 Dec 2017 (married to non-EU residing outside the EU)
Refusal date: 10 Jan 2018
Appeal submission date: 17 Jan 2018
UKVI Appeal Withdrawal offer: 27 July 2018 (notice, it’s a just few days before the deadline date below)
UKVI Appeal evidence submission deadline date: 1 August 2018

This is where it gets interesting: the judge did not like the wording of the UKVI withdrawal offer letter because UKVI had stated “This request for withdrawal is in order for a recommendation to be sent to the Decision Making Centre where your original application was decided to overturn the refusal decision and grant Entry Clearance” on the basis that I am a qualified person & citing Lounes as being the key point for their withdrawal (not sure I’m allowed to post the actual letter so I won’t but that’s the gist of it).

In effect, their Withdrawal Offer was only a recommendation which was subject to the Decision Making Centre’s acceptance. Not good at all, when you factor a schizophrenic UKVI into the mix ☹

Judge’s Refusal to accept withdrawal: 5 August 2018 (Judge directed UKVI to revise withdrawal offer letter & make less conditional)
Actual Appeal Hearing date: 5 September 2018
Appeal Decision: Appeal allowed on the same basis as UKVI withdrawal points (i.e. I am a qualified person + Lounes), Judge awarded us costs
UKVI Passport Request: 5 October 2018
Passport Submission to visa centre: 10 October 2018 (hopefully

)
Passport returned with visa: TBC, will update as develops

It took a phone call every fortnight to the Appeals Tribunal to keep abreast of updates which turned out to be a good thing as I was able to provide verbal, on the spot acceptance of the Judge’s decision to refuse the UKVI withdrawal offer letter.

My rationale was if the Judge was not happy with the wording & wanted something more concrete, he probably had good reason to be. He must have seen a few about turns from the UKVI to make him suspicious of their “recommendations”.

Also, we now had a final hearing date of 5 September at that time, so only had 4 more weeks to wait for a decision which we were now reasonably confident would go our way as UKVI had already admitted as much in their Withdrawal Offer letter.

So, chin up folks, the Lounes ruling is probably the best thing to happen to us EU/UK dual nationals yet

.

Just to say a massive thank you to everyone for sharing their stories, we’d have gone potty if this thread wasn’t here to keep us going.

Happy to provide any clarifications if it helps…

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:01 pm

Thank you Maria, for the kind words.

Oneglasseyed, good stuff, you got it. I believe when you said non eu outside uk, you applied for family permit. if so, get ready for the RC battle. That will be fun

AlfaBeta123, did you get your answers or came to any conclusion? you got pretty interesting questions out there.

oneglasseyed · Post by **oneglasseyed** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:54 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:01 pm
Thank you Maria, for the kind words.

Oneglasseyed, good stuff, you got it. I believe when you said non eu outside uk, you applied for family permit. if so, get ready for the RC battle. That will be fun

AlfaBeta123, did you get your answers or came to any conclusion? you got pretty interesting questions out there.

Hi Kam,

Yes my wife is non-EU & is currently living outside the EU. Any tips on the RC hurdle ahead? From your experience, what do we need to look out for?

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:59 pm

oneglasseyed wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:54 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:01 pm
Thank you Maria, for the kind words.

Oneglasseyed, good stuff, you got it. I believe when you said non eu outside uk, you applied for family permit. if so, get ready for the RC battle. That will be fun

AlfaBeta123, did you get your answers or came to any conclusion? you got pretty interesting questions out there.
Hi Kam,

Yes my wife is non-EU & is currently living outside the EU. Any tips on the RC hurdle ahead? From your experience, what do we need to look out for?

From my own experience, the family permit is the hard part, your follow up applications i.e. resident card predominantly depends on what you have provided in support of your permit application. I remember how scared I was when i submitted my family permit application, I had 4 large folders with me to prove our relationship

, . Nonetheless, present your case with all the relevant supporting documents, living together, joint accounts, some billings on the same address. Most importantly what they see I think is how genuine your relationship is and obviously you exercising treaty rights. there is pretty straight forward documents they are looking for, have a look at the case workers guidance notes for UK residence card, it will be handy at the time of your application. I might would say start piling-up your pay slips or HMRC relevant letters and many other documents but according to your timings it is safe to say that your spouse will go under pre-settled status and as per HO recent guidance, it will be very easy and straight forward procedure. So all your preparations or my/anyone's recommendations might be irrelevant. Therefore, I think wait a month or two after the possession of your spouse' family permit and once HO new system go live submit your application. You know your case better but HO might keep an eye on you because of your success so don't give them any reason to refuse your application again, I totally understand how frustrating it is. Good luck mate.

bmrpl · Post by **bmrpl** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm

Hi All,

On a slightly different note, was anyone applying for PRC for a non-EU spouse and a non EU-step child perhaps?
I'm dual national (EEA & British) since March 2017. My wife's and stepdaughter's RP expire in couple of months time. I was thinking to apply for both of their PRC's and then for my wife's BC straight away. Once we get her British passport sorted, my stepdaughter will be automatically entitled to her British nationality according to the HO website. I need to mention that she will be 16 on November.

So my question is... Do I need to apply for step daughter's PRC at all? I know it's not compulsory to have one to be able to stay legally here in UK and once she's a child of a British person she gets her nationality sorted... Am I thinking correctly? Thank you

Post by **CR001** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:24 pm

bmrpl wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm
Hi All,

On a slightly different note, was anyone applying for PRC for a non-EU spouse and a non EU-step child perhaps?
I'm dual national (EEA & British) since March 2017. My wife's and stepdaughter's RP expire in couple of months time. I was thinking to apply for both of their PRC's and then for my wife's BC straight away. Once we get her British passport sorted, my stepdaughter will be automatically entitled to her British nationality according to the HO website. I need to mention that she will be 16 on November.

So my question is... Do I need to apply for step daughter's PRC at all? I know it's not compulsory to have one to be able to stay legally here in UK and once she's a child of a British person she gets her nationality sorted... Am I thinking correctly? Thank you

If step daughter is born aboard, she requires PR before she can apply for British citizenship. She has no entitlement to British citizenship if not UK born and there is not automatic retrospective entitlement either.

bmrpl · Post by **bmrpl** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:31 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:24 pm

bmrpl wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm
Hi All,

On a slightly different note, was anyone applying for PRC for a non-EU spouse and a non EU-step child perhaps?
I'm dual national (EEA & British) since March 2017. My wife's and stepdaughter's RP expire in couple of months time. I was thinking to apply for both of their PRC's and then for my wife's BC straight away. Once we get her British passport sorted, my stepdaughter will be automatically entitled to her British nationality according to the HO website. I need to mention that she will be 16 on November.

So my question is... Do I need to apply for step daughter's PRC at all? I know it's not compulsory to have one to be able to stay legally here in UK and once she's a child of a British person she gets her nationality sorted... Am I thinking correctly? Thank you
If step daughter is born aboard, she requires PR before she can apply for British citizenship. She has no entitlement to British citizenship if not UK born and there is not automatic retrospective entitlement either.

Thank you for clarification, yes she was born abroad. I was hoping to save some trouble with paperwork but it looks like I can't avoid it.

oneglasseyed · Post by **oneglasseyed** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:43 am

CR001 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:24 pm

bmrpl wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm
Hi All,

On a slightly different note, was anyone applying for PRC for a non-EU spouse and a non EU-step child perhaps?
I'm dual national (EEA & British) since March 2017. My wife's and stepdaughter's RP expire in couple of months time. I was thinking to apply for both of their PRC's and then for my wife's BC straight away. Once we get her British passport sorted, my stepdaughter will be automatically entitled to her British nationality according to the HO website. I need to mention that she will be 16 on November.

So my question is... Do I need to apply for step daughter's PRC at all? I know it's not compulsory to have one to be able to stay legally here in UK and once she's a child of a British person she gets her nationality sorted... Am I thinking correctly? Thank you
If step daughter is born aboard, she requires PR before she can apply for British citizenship. She has no entitlement to British citizenship if not UK born and there is not automatic retrospective entitlement either.

Hi CR001,

Does the same rule apply in the following scenario & do we need a PR before child's BC application?:

- Child born abroad after EU Dad became UK citizen
- Mum non-EU/UK
- Both moving to UK imminently, after EEA FP (hopefully)

Cheers

Post by **CR001** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:47 am

oneglasseyed wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:43 am

CR001 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:24 pm

bmrpl wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm
Hi All,

On a slightly different note, was anyone applying for PRC for a non-EU spouse and a non EU-step child perhaps?
I'm dual national (EEA & British) since March 2017. My wife's and stepdaughter's RP expire in couple of months time. I was thinking to apply for both of their PRC's and then for my wife's BC straight away. Once we get her British passport sorted, my stepdaughter will be automatically entitled to her British nationality according to the HO website. I need to mention that she will be 16 on November.

So my question is... Do I need to apply for step daughter's PRC at all? I know it's not compulsory to have one to be able to stay legally here in UK and once she's a child of a British person she gets her nationality sorted... Am I thinking correctly? Thank you
If step daughter is born aboard, she requires PR before she can apply for British citizenship. She has no entitlement to British citizenship if not UK born and there is not automatic retrospective entitlement either.
Hi CR001,

Does the same rule apply in the following scenario & do we need a PR before child's BC application?:

- Child born abroad after EU Dad became UK citizen
- Mum non-EU/UK
- Both moving to UK imminently, after EEA FP (hopefully)

Cheers

1. You should post your questions in the BRITISH CITIZENSHIP sub forum please.

2. Children born abroad AFTER a parent has naturalised as British is automatically British by descent.

oneglasseyed · Post by **oneglasseyed** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:01 am

CR001 wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:47 am

oneglasseyed wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:43 am

CR001 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:24 pm

bmrpl wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm
Hi All,

On a slightly different note, was anyone applying for PRC for a non-EU spouse and a non EU-step child perhaps?
I'm dual national (EEA & British) since March 2017. My wife's and stepdaughter's RP expire in couple of months time. I was thinking to apply for both of their PRC's and then for my wife's BC straight away. Once we get her British passport sorted, my stepdaughter will be automatically entitled to her British nationality according to the HO website. I need to mention that she will be 16 on November.

So my question is... Do I need to apply for step daughter's PRC at all? I know it's not compulsory to have one to be able to stay legally here in UK and once she's a child of a British person she gets her nationality sorted... Am I thinking correctly? Thank you
If step daughter is born aboard, she requires PR before she can apply for British citizenship. She has no entitlement to British citizenship if not UK born and there is not automatic retrospective entitlement either.
Hi CR001,

Does the same rule apply in the following scenario & do we need a PR before child's BC application?:

- Child born abroad after EU Dad became UK citizen
- Mum non-EU/UK
- Both moving to UK imminently, after EEA FP (hopefully)

Cheers
1. You should post your questions in the BRITISH CITIZENSHIP sub forum please.

2. Children born abroad AFTER a parent has naturalised as British is automatically British by descent.

Thanks for the advice CR001. Will post in the correct sub forum next time

lcyprusforme18 · Post by **lcyprusforme18** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:47 am

Hi - I am seeking some advice

I am a born British citizen and have recently applied for Cypriot citizenship from descent (my family are all Greek Cypriot from Cyprus) both sets of grandparents born in Cyprus but my parents were born in UK. I should receive my citizenship by the end of October this month which will mean I will have dual UK-EU nationality.

I am in a long-term relationship with my boyfriend (been together 15 months) and we want to get married. He is a non-EU illegally in the UK. We have been living together since February 2018 and have bills and a tenancy agreement in both our names. I earn well over the £18,600 threshold and I am in full-term employment.

We are seeking advice on whether I am able to use my EU Passport (Cypriot) for his visa as a family member. I know that I am able to use my British passport for a spouse visa but I would like to know if we can apply via EEA route as an EU citizen seeking my non-EU spouse to reside with me in the UK as a family member. Any advice would be really helpful.

We plan to get married in either Cyprus or his home country soon.

Case law we have looked into is McCarthy, Zambrano, Metock and Lounes.

Many thanks!

Post by **vinny** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:52 am

CR001 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:57 am
Please continue in your topic you have started in the EEA Route sub forum.

eea-route-applications/dual-citizenship ... l#p1691321

E Li · Post by **E Li** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:20 pm

My husband was born in the UK, his farher is british, mum is dutch.
He is a british citizen and also has Dutch nationalilty.
At the moment he only has Dutch passport, doesn’t have british passport. As he moved to Holland when he was a child and changed his surname.

I’m non-EEA, married to him in 2012.
I got eea family permit in 2013 and eea residence card in 2014.
We are trying to applying EEA PR now. Fill in the application form and memtion he is also british citizen.
Is it our case same as Louse case?
Can we still get EEA PR?

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:38 pm

E Li wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:20 pm
My husband was born in the UK, his farher is british, mum is dutch.
He is a british citizen and also has Dutch nationalilty.
At the moment he only has Dutch passport, doesn’t have british passport. As he moved to Holland when he was a child and changed his surname.

I’m non-EEA, married to him in 2012.
I got eea family permit in 2013 and eea residence card in 2014.
We are trying to applying EEA PR now. Fill in the application form and memtion he is also british citizen.
Is it our case same as Louse case?
Can we still get EEA PR?

hi E Li,

Looking at your posts it seems that you have already sent your application. As per your details your case can fall under Surinder Singh route. However, if i were you I would add an explanatory cover letter with the application and leave it to HO to decide under what category they will process it i.e. Surinder Singh or Lounes, in the letter I would mention how long your husband has stayed and worked in Netherlands and how long in UK as this will be the core of your case, and the rest of the guidance is all in the caseworkers guidance notes which I believe you red and act accordingly. Be optimistic, (I think) your case cannot be refused just because it falls under Lounes or Surinder Singh but the rest of the facts should be straight forward and digestible to the caseworker. All the best.

Cupcake567 · Post by **Cupcake567** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:33 pm

Hello All,

I have came across the “Free movements rights - direct family members of EEA national” document (you can find it here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... PDF#page25).

Am I right saying that EEA national who will also obtain British citizenship can hold their EEA rights now, as per page 24 on the above document?

Im EEA, having permanent residence card, and my non-EEA husband only arrived to UK now on his Family Permit. I would like to apply for BC but I was hold back by previous regulations which stated I will lose my EEA rights once become BC. Does it mean that I can apply for BC now, based on a new law, and he can stay in UK based on my EEA rights?

Another concern is- should he apply for his Residence Card first and only after he gets one I should apply for BC or I can apply for BC even before he holds his REsidency card? His Family permit expires beginning of next year, can he apply for Residency Card now or he needs to wait until FP is about to expire?

Please help me to clarify the above as I am afraid that me applying for BC can mess up his rights in UK. Also, after obtaining Residence Card, after 5 years, he could apply for a Permamnet Residence Card or even British Nationality?

Any support would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

nehaniran12 · Post by **nehaniran12** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:58 am

Hi,

as per my understanding, this rule is just for 5 years EEA permit only?

My husband acquired non-EEA permanent residency in January 2016 and he already received his PR card as well. I became a British citizen on the 31st of October 2018, so does it mean that my husband lost his PR status? He still has not applied for naturalisation yet.

Please clarify this as he is going to Sri Lanka in May 2019, so I don't want him to get an issue at the airport.

thnk you

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