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French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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cry87
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French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by cry87 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:02 pm

I am a French national PACSed to a Canadian national. PACS is the french equivalent of civil partnerships but has always allowed mixed-sex couples. Since 01 Jan 2020, mixed-sex civil partnerships have been legal in the UK, so we would like to know if our PACS would also be recognised by UK immigration? We are planning to apply for an EEA family permit to go to the UK.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50953410

secret.simon
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by secret.simon » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:23 pm

Yes, a French PACS is accepted as the overseas equivalent of an opposite sex civil partnership in the UK.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

lichzz
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by lichzz » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:12 am

secret.simon wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:23 pm
Yes, a French PACS is accepted as the overseas equivalent of an opposite sex civil partnership in the UK.
Hi ! Are you sure?
I spent all day reading civil partnership act 2004 + amendment 2019 and come to a conclusion it doesn’t.

This list says these oversea civil partnership is recognized as “specify relationship”. And in order to be recognized as “oversea relationships which can be treated as civil partnership in UK” you need to qualify as specify relationship + at the time you form your partnership you need to be same sex couple.
You can find these in civil partnership act 2004 with the opposite sex civil partnership amendment 2019. There’s a chapter on “oversea relationship treat as civil partnership”.

I will be very happy if you can prove me wrong though.
I use PACS to apply EU settlement scheme and they don’t recognize my PACs and I got refused.

joewat
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by joewat » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:22 pm

Hi guys,

I'm french with settled status in the UK, my girlfriend is Australian.
We have been pacsed in 2020 and currently waiting for an answer regarding our application for my girlfriend to get pre-settled status as close family member of a EU citizen in the UK (me). So far we got the Certificate of Application (CoA) but still waiting for the actual answer.

I definitely think that opposite sex Pacs is recognised in the UK, however I'm now worried the governement has not updated the information everywhere.
Here are a few interesting links :
- Tweet from "Equal Civil Partnership" saying it's fine :
- Article from French Connexion saying it's definitely meant to be fine but doesn't say if the regulation is already applied, or only forthcoming : https://www.connexionfrance.com/Practic ... law-change
- Gov Website Page which still state that opposite sex PACS is not recognised, which feels wrong and makes me worried : https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/fr ... posite_sex

If anybody finds any information, please add them in this thread.
Many thanks !

lichzz
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by lichzz » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:17 am

joewat wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:22 pm
Hi guys,

I'm french with settled status in the UK, my girlfriend is Australian.
We have been pacsed in 2020 and currently waiting for an answer regarding our application for my girlfriend to get pre-settled status as close family member of a EU citizen in the UK (me). So far we got the Certificate of Application (CoA) but still waiting for the actual answer.

I definitely think that opposite sex Pacs is recognised in the UK, however I'm now worried the governement has not updated the information everywhere.
Here are a few interesting links :
- Tweet from "Equal Civil Partnership" saying it's fine :
- Article from French Connexion saying it's definitely meant to be fine but doesn't say if the regulation is already applied, or only forthcoming : https://www.connexionfrance.com/Practic ... law-change
- Gov Website Page which still state that opposite sex PACS is not recognised, which feels wrong and makes me worried : https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/fr ... posite_sex

If anybody finds any information, please add them in this thread.
Many thanks !
Hi! I use PACS to apply EU settlements scheme with my french partner opposite sex. And I wait for 4 month to get refused in March 2020. The reason on my refusal letter is Pacs solidarity from France is not a close family member certificate they recognized. They recognized me applying as extend family member. You need to use Pacs to apply residence card. And use residence card to apply EU settlement scheme!
Don’t make the same mistake I have made!

joewat
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by joewat » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:01 pm

Hi lichzz,
Many thanks for getting back with these information.
I'm very sorry to hear your experience and that is worrying for me indeed.

I'm surprised that they would recognise a non EU civil partner as an extended family member based on a PACS (for a Residence Card) if they do not accept it as close family member. Indeed my understanding of "extended family member" is that it is for indirect blood relatives only.
A residence Card in itself is not that useful compared to the EU pre-settled or settled status as it will potentially stop being recognised at the end of the year (because of the end of the Brexit transition period which will make the UK a non EEA member).

My initial thoughts are that there could be a few reasons the Home Office could refuse the PACS for the Eu settlement of a close family member :

- 1. The French Governement provide a few different ways to prove a PACS : the Pacs convention itself, a french birth certificate with mention of the Pacs, the "Recepissé d'enregistrement de la declaration conjointe des partenaires du Pacs de Solidarité". I think there is also a 4 way to prove it for non French Citizen such as my girlfriend (something which can be requested to a governement office in Nantes") but I can't remember exactly

It is likely the UK government only recognise one of these "proofs" for the PACS and sadly they don't really say which. Personally I have given them the "Recepissé d'enregistrement" du PACS, as I was thinking it was the closest thing we have from a "Certificate" but I could have been wrong.

- 2. The Change in Civil Partnerhsip Law is very recent so depending when you applied (end of 2019 before the law came into effect, or early 2020) and when you got the answer, the issue could be that the Home Office had not updated their processes yet to adapt to the change in law.


Not too sure what to do on my end : /
If you have further thoughts, please share them : )

Best

joewat
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by joewat » Sat May 30, 2020 3:55 pm

Hi all,
Great news, after getting many complains, the foreign office has now finally updated their pages on the gov.uk website and it now specifically says that Opposite Sex French Pacs is now recognised in the uk : https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/fr ... posite_sex

We can now hope that this page also get updated by the Home Office, so that EU settlement applications for pacsed non Eu partners are based on the latest law : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-settleme ... eu-citizen.
I encourage as many people as possible to log a feedback about the page, so that it gets updated asap.

Many thanks

OlgaN
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by OlgaN » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:50 am

joewat wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 3:55 pm
Hi all,
Great news, after getting many complains, the foreign office has now finally updated their pages on the gov.uk website and it now specifically says that Opposite Sex French Pacs is now recognised in the uk : https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/fr ... posite_sex

We can now hope that this page also get updated by the Home Office, so that EU settlement applications for pacsed non Eu partners are based on the latest law : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-settleme ... eu-citizen.
I encourage as many people as possible to log a feedback about the page, so that it gets updated asap.

Many thanks
Hi joewat!

I am a civil partner (opposite-sex) of a EEA national. And I'm trying to get informed about retained right of opposite-sex civil partners. As far as I see, due to this new law of Dec 2019, opposite sex civil partners have retained right after separation (if other conditions are met of course) but on gov website there is absolutely no information about is anywhere! There is no page saying: "oh from now on opposite-sex civil partners have retained rights as well". I even wrote three times to EU Settlement Resolution Centre asking just to confirm this simple thing but all three times just received some canned response with no answer to this question. I'm just saying they are really slow with the updates on this new civil partnership thing. And it is a bit confusing anyway.

As per PACS, it's not the only one foreign document recognised in UK by the way (like mine is Pareja de hecho and it is also on the list of recognised civil partnerships).

Best wishes!

JulieL
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by JulieL » Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:38 pm

joewat wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 3:55 pm
Hi all,
Great news, after getting many complains, the foreign office has now finally updated their pages on the gov.uk website and it now specifically says that Opposite Sex French Pacs is now recognised in the uk : https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/fr ... posite_sex

We can now hope that this page also get updated by the Home Office, so that EU settlement applications for pacsed non Eu partners are based on the latest law : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-settleme ... eu-citizen.
I encourage as many people as possible to log a feedback about the page, so that it gets updated asap.

Many thanks
Hi joewat,

Thanks for sharing the information !

Indeed a few months ago when I checked the same website it was still written "opposite-sex pacs is not recognized". Glad to see that they updated the page so that it becomes more certain!

I'm in a similar situation and would like to know if your girlfirend's application has been successful ?

Merci d'avance !

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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by joewat » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:34 pm

UPDATE : PRE-SETTLED STATUS REFUSED !
I'm now exactly in the same situation than lichzz.
I'm a French Male with Settled Status in the UK and I'm PACSED to my Non EU Female Partner.
Since the "Equal Civil Partnerships" change of law end of 2019, a lot of Oversea Opposite Sex Civil Partnerships are now fully recognised in the UK (including the French PACS for which the gov page has been updated : https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/fr ... posite_sex) .

My Non EU Partner applied to the EU Settled Scheme as my Civil Partner and, after a 4.5 months wait, we just got a refusal letter stating that we weren't qualifying as "Durable Partners" which is crazy as this not what we applied for ! We applied as Civil Partners and we used the PACS Certificate as the Evidence of Relationship.
This is what the letter says : "You state that you are a durable partner of a relevant EEA citizen. However, you have not provided sufficient evidence to confirm this"
The letter also advises us to apply for a EEA Residence Card instead, but that feels like a very bad advice for many reasons, not least because EEA Residence Cards will stop being recognised at the end of 2020 due to Brexit, which is soon.
I have read the "CaseWorker Guidance" and it clearly states that valid certificates of Oversea Civil Partnerships (not just same-sex) recognised in the UK are the relevant Evidence to provide for Civil Partners :
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... r-guidance

This seems like a gross mistake from the Caseworker.

I'm now considering two different options :
- Launching an Administrative review of the EU Settlement Refusal decision but this could be lengthy/unreliable
- Applying for a Spouse Visa which is more Costly (Visa Fee + Health Surcharge + optional Priority Service Fee) but is more likely to work quickly and would results in my Partner getting "Right To Work" much faster

I would be very keen to hear about other people experiences.
Kind regards and best of luck !

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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by JulieL » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:54 pm

joewat wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:34 pm
UPDATE : PRE-SETTLED STATUS REFUSED !
I'm now exactly in the same situation than lichzz.
I'm a French Male with Settled Status in the UK and I'm PACSED to my Non EU Female Partner.
Since the "Equal Civil Partnerships" change of law end of 2019, a lot of Oversea Opposite Sex Civil Partnerships are now fully recognised in the UK (including the French PACS for which the gov page has been updated : https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/fr ... posite_sex) .

My Non EU Partner applied to the EU Settled Scheme as my Civil Partner and, after a 4.5 months wait, we just got a refusal letter stating that we weren't qualifying as "Durable Partners" which is crazy as this not what we applied for ! We applied as Civil Partners and we used the PACS Certificate as the Evidence of Relationship.
This is what the letter says : "You state that you are a durable partner of a relevant EEA citizen. However, you have not provided sufficient evidence to confirm this"
The letter also advises us to apply for a EEA Residence Card instead, but that feels like a very bad advice for many reasons, not least because EEA Residence Cards will stop being recognised at the end of 2020 due to Brexit, which is soon.
I have read the "CaseWorker Guidance" and it clearly states that valid certificates of Oversea Civil Partnerships (not just same-sex) recognised in the UK are the relevant Evidence to provide for Civil Partners :
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... r-guidance

This seems like a gross mistake from the Caseworker.

I'm now considering two different options :
- Launching an Administrative review of the EU Settlement Refusal decision but this could be lengthy/unreliable
- Applying for a Spouse Visa which is more Costly (Visa Fee + Health Surcharge + optional Priority Service Fee) but is more likely to work quickly and would results in my Partner getting "Right To Work" much faster

I would be very keen to hear about other people experiences.
Kind regards and best of luck !
Hi joewat,

I'm very sorry to hear that it finally didn't work out, especially after such a long wait...

I've consulted a few solicitor, and the solution they give is to apply for a settlement scheme family permit (https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/eu-set ... ily-permit), and once your girfriend get the permit, she can submit it as prove to your relationship. I got the same answer when I called the settlement scheme resolution center. Do you think it could be a possible solution ?

And just as a supplement information : when did your girlfriend submitted the application of settlement scheme ? Maybe it's rejected because the application was sent when the opposite-sex pacs is not yet recognized in the UK ? (Just a guess)

Thanks

joewat
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by joewat » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:59 pm

Hi JulieL,

My partner got the EUSS refusal letter this week and applied in Feb 2020.

I could be wrong, but I don't think applying to the EU Settlement scheme Family Permit will help, especially as my Partner is already in the UK thanks to her automatic "Right To Reside" as my partner (https://www.gov.uk/right-to-reside).
My understanding of the EUSS Family Permit is that this is simply a kind of temporary "EUSS Status" for Non Eu Partners who live abroad to be able to arrive in the UK to then be able to apply to EUSS from the UK. Most importantly, I don't think it's easier to get a Permit than the actual EUSS (pre)Settled Status as it's likely to be the same caseworkers applying the same guidelines and with the same processing times.

I also think if the Permit was the way to go , the EUSS case worker would have told us this on the refusal letter instead of suggesting that my partner apply to an EEA UK Residence Card (https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-residence-card).
Feeling a bit lost, not sure what's best to do yet. Please let me know if you have further thoughts on this.

Many thanks

lichzz
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by lichzz » Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 am

Hi I’m back...I’m sorry that this happens to you too.
But clearly we should not think home office Will reflect the law to EU Settlement so soon:( And in my refusal letter it states the same as you. Saying we apply as durable partner.

After I got my refusal in March, I was in a crisis to prove my right to work too.
So hear me out, because everything was sort out now.

I decide to consult lawyers and talks to a few. They all state doing administrative review is not a good choice since they use the same guideline and it will cost you some money and time with the same result.
We decided to apply for EU residence card with my EU partner applying registeration certificate(this way it’s faster). And you can do it online without sending passport.
We send our application end of March (2 week after I got refused )and 3 week later I got a long COA (you can get it faster but mine was due to The begin of lockdown)which proof my right of work. So no panic with work anymore.

And in the end of June I got my Residence card as a family member of an EU citizen. And this card expired June 2021. So I have follow the instruction of my lawyer to use this residence card to apply EU settlement and my lawyer also said it will be very straight forward since Home office already have all my documents from my Residence card application.
I hope this helps... it can be nice to have a short consult with a lawyer to sort out your choices. I def think you still have time to apply for residence card and then apply EU settlement scheme. I know the system is stupid....but it is like that:(

Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck!

joewat
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by joewat » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:09 pm

Hi lichzz,

Thanks so much for your message and advices !! Seriously this is incredibly helpful !
This is very good to know that the solution of applying for a Residence Card for a non EU civil partner (with a PACS) works and that the EU/EEA Residence Card Application COA gives your Right To Work quickly !

In the end, we have chosen to apply first for an administrative review of the EU Settlement Decision just after I posted my message as we realised that :
- There are very long waiting time for biometric appointment at the moment due to covid and the EUSS administrative review seems to be the only process that doesn't require us to re-do biometrics for my Partner
- Administrative Reviews are quick and when you do one, you can explain your case in details and add links to the Civil Partnership Laws etc, which might help overturn the decision.

In the end, we're hoping the EUSS administrative review might work. If it doesn't, we might need to follow your advice and do a EEA Residence Card (or Family Visa if the priority service re-open as we could like to be able to go in holidays in September and even a Residence Card COA wouldn't allow us to leave the country and come back easily).

I will update my situation on this forum as soon as I get the EUSS administrative review answer.

Many thanks

Ben1Ben
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by Ben1Ben » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:03 pm

Hi everyone,

Thank you for sharing your experience and info, this is very helpful.

I am a French national and my civil partner (PACS) is a Peruvian national. She applied to the EU settlement scheme back in October 2019 as my non-EEA Family member. In January we received the COA and a week later we got contacted by an agent who stated the following: “please provide evidence of your relationship to your EU family member as follows: Marriage Certificate or Civil Partnership. The evidence that you have provided so far is not acceptable because you provided Civil Solidarity Pact as evidence of relationship, this is recognised in law but is currently not sufficient in lieu of marriage/civil partnership”. Because we had wrongly submitted only the Recipisse and not the actual PACS contract (convention) when she applied in October, we thought this was the issue and decided to submit the Convention and further evidence of our relationship. As you can see, the message from the agent is hard to interpret, especially when you consider the “not sufficient” language used. By today we have not heard back from the EU settlement scheme.

Having read that your received a refusal based on durable partners we think that once the EU settlement scheme concludes that the PACS is not a valid (or sufficient) document, they move on to consider your application on the basis of a durable partnership. This in turn requires complying with the following: having lived together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership for two years or more, unless there is other significant evidence of the durable relationship for example evidence of joint responsibility for a child, evidence of cohabitation, bank statements, utility bills at the same address, having a mortgage together, and evidence of joint finances, etc. (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... gov-uk.pdf)

You can also arrive to the conclusion that your application will get considered as a durable partnership because of what is written in the following document (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 9.0ext.pdf) , bottom of page 10: “Proof of Civil Partnership – Civil partnership certificate: if a UK issued civil partnership certificate is missing, you can assess if the other evidence provided sufficiently evidenced the partnership.”

The above may be the reason why my partner has still not been refused by the EU settlement scheme, but again this is just an idea. When submitting further evidence of our relationship in January, we included a joint account under both our names, proof of having lived together for about 1.5 years, proof of shared bills, pictures, messages, holidays bookings, etc, that extended throughout our whole relationship that started in April 2017. From then to today we have even more evidence of our relationship that we are thinking to upload: we have moved together into our own new home, have many more bills under both our names, etc.

My partner currently has a full time job, that she is allowed to hold because prior to applying to the EU settlement scheme she was on a student visa that allowed her to work full time – this status got frozen when she applied to the EU settlement scheme, and allows her to work full time until they make a decision on her application.

We wanted to ask you if you had submitted similar evidence as the one mentioned above as proof of relationship, to assess whether we had a chance to get the application accepted on a durable partnership basis. We will put in contact with the EU settlement scheme and ask for advice too.

Joewat - did you hear back from the scheme administrative review?

Thank you very much,

Ben1Ben
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by Ben1Ben » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:20 pm

lichzz wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 am
Hi I’m back...I’m sorry that this happens to you too.
But clearly we should not think home office Will reflect the law to EU Settlement so soon:( And in my refusal letter it states the same as you. Saying we apply as durable partner.

After I got my refusal in March, I was in a crisis to prove my right to work too.
So hear me out, because everything was sort out now.

I decide to consult lawyers and talks to a few. They all state doing administrative review is not a good choice since they use the same guideline and it will cost you some money and time with the same result.
We decided to apply for EU residence card with my EU partner applying registeration certificate(this way it’s faster). And you can do it online without sending passport.
We send our application end of March (2 week after I got refused )and 3 week later I got a long COA (you can get it faster but mine was due to The begin of lockdown)which proof my right of work. So no panic with work anymore.

And in the end of June I got my Residence card as a family member of an EU citizen. And this card expired June 2021. So I have follow the instruction of my lawyer to use this residence card to apply EU settlement and my lawyer also said it will be very straight forward since Home office already have all my documents from my Residence card application.
I hope this helps... it can be nice to have a short consult with a lawyer to sort out your choices. I def think you still have time to apply for residence card and then apply EU settlement scheme. I know the system is stupid....but it is like that:(

Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck!
Hey lichzz, thank you for this message, it is very encouraging. Could you kindly share with me the contact of the lawyer you used please? I am interested.
Also, does it mean that with the EU residence card you won't need to provide any further information to prove your relationship with your civil partner?

Thanks a lot

lichzz
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by lichzz » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:55 pm

Ben1Ben wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:20 pm
lichzz wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 am
Hi I’m back...I’m sorry that this happens to you too.
But clearly we should not think home office Will reflect the law to EU Settlement so soon:( And in my refusal letter it states the same as you. Saying we apply as durable partner.

After I got my refusal in March, I was in a crisis to prove my right to work too.
So hear me out, because everything was sort out now.

I decide to consult lawyers and talks to a few. They all state doing administrative review is not a good choice since they use the same guideline and it will cost you some money and time with the same result.
We decided to apply for EU residence card with my EU partner applying registeration certificate(this way it’s faster). And you can do it online without sending passport.
We send our application end of March (2 week after I got refused )and 3 week later I got a long COA (you can get it faster but mine was due to The begin of lockdown)which proof my right of work. So no panic with work anymore.

And in the end of June I got my Residence card as a family member of an EU citizen. And this card expired June 2021. So I have follow the instruction of my lawyer to use this residence card to apply EU settlement and my lawyer also said it will be very straight forward since Home office already have all my documents from my Residence card application.
I hope this helps... it can be nice to have a short consult with a lawyer to sort out your choices. I def think you still have time to apply for residence card and then apply EU settlement scheme. I know the system is stupid....but it is like that:(

Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck!
Hey lichzz, thank you for this message, it is very encouraging. Could you kindly share with me the contact of the lawyer you used please? I am interested.
Also, does it mean that with the EU residence card you won't need to provide any further information to prove your relationship with your civil partner?

Thanks a lot
Hi Ben,

We use xxxxxxx in London. I'm not sure if sharing this info is ok on this board?
We did provide information about our relationship since our lawyer said we can procide just in case.
But at the end seems like they consider us as family member rather than extend family member.
And my case pass through very fast consider it was during lockdown and others are having delay over 6 months.

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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by CR001 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:15 pm

lichzz wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:55 pm
Hi Ben,

We use xxxxxxx in London. I'm not sure if sharing this info is ok on this board?
We did provide information about our relationship since our lawyer said we can procide just in case.
But at the end seems like they consider us as family member rather than extend family member.
And my case pass through very fast consider it was during lockdown and others are having delay over 6 months.
Members are not permitted to post any names of details of lawyers of immigration agents in the forum.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by Ben1Ben » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:39 am

Thanks so much for your reply lichzz.

Were you able to travel in and out of the UK with your COA while waiting for your physical residence card to arrive?

Also, has your application for the EU settlement scheme using your EEA FM residence card as proof of relationship been successful?

We are planning to do the same as you did. Just need to wait til the end of the month so I can prove 5 years of residence in the UK. That way I we can both apply online at the same time, otherwise we'll have to use the paper form and send the docs which might actually take more time than doing it online. I assume the application will also be stronger if I have 5 years in the UK (permanent residence).

Thank you

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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by symphonyinyellow » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:24 pm

Hello,
Sorry, I don t have any information about your inquiry. Can you please tell me if your ID/passport numbers are written in the PACS certificate? Because I am also going to apply for EEA FP. I have a civil partnership certificate from Greece and just tax number, insurance numbers from Greece show in it and I am not sure if it is alright for visa application. Thank you.

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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by Ben1Ben » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:11 pm

Hi Symphony,

No ID numbers nor tax numbers are shown on the PACS document so I would assume it's ok.

One thing I am not sure though is if the document needs to be translated. I think it is mandatory for docs not in english. lichzz - have you provided a certified translated copy or the original doc?

Thanks,

symphonyinyellow
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by symphonyinyellow » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:51 am

Ben1Ben wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:11 pm
Hi Symphony,

No ID numbers nor tax numbers are shown on the PACS document so I would assume it's ok.

One thing I am not sure though is if the document needs to be translated. I think it is mandatory for docs not in english. lichzz - have you provided a certified translated copy or the original doc?

Thanks,
Thank you Ben1Ben. We are planning to get apostille for certificate and translate it to English. Do you think it is necessary to provide civil partnership agreement with the certificate?

joewat
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by joewat » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:49 pm

Hi all,

Amazing news from my side, the Administrative Review of the EU Settlement Scheme Decision has worked and therefore my Australian partner has now successfully been granted pre-settled status based on our PACS.

Based on my experience and all my research; below are my advices if you want your non-EU partner to stay in the UK based on a PACS.

APPLY :
- Apply to the EU Settlement scheme directly. You do not need a solicitor in most cases I think as the form is simple
- Do not apply to EEA Residence Card anymore, it's too late. The Residence Card path seems to have worked really well for Lichzz but now this is too late to do it as Residence Cards won't be recognised beyond the end of December 2020, so by the time you get it, you may not be able to use it to apply for EUSS.
- If you need a fast answer, you may consider an FM Visa. EUSS is very slow for most non EU Partners. On the other hand, because of "covid" , current wait for biometrics appointments are long and the visa priority service is suspended, so this may not be ideal right now

- Use the "Récépissé d'enregistrement de la déclaration conjointe des partenaires du PACS" when you apply. There is no need to include other documents. This is the only document that my partner included, both in my initial application and administrative review. We didn't include any translation/certified translation, but I think this might help if you do. If I had to do it again, I would probably add a note below the Récépissé to say that it's the official proof of a french civil partnership, which is recognised in the uk.

AFTER APPLYING :
- You will receive a COA, but the EUSS COA (unlike with some Visa and EEA Residence Card applications) does NOT give Right To Work in itself

- Be prepared to wait 5+ months to get an answer from the EUSS, during which you will not be able to leave the country (as leaving the UK would automatically withdraw your application), and perhaps not be able to work if your previous Visa has expired/ doesn’t carry over. If speed is really important to you and you have 3K to spare, then I'd recommend applying for a FM Visa with Priority Service if you can. This has a few cons compared to EU Settlement Scheme but nothing major and at least you'd get the quick answer you need, allowing that you don’t need new biometrics taken.

IF YOU DON'T GET AN ANSWER :
- After 4 or 5 months of waiting without an answer, it is advised to call the EUSS Resolution Centre and raise a formal complaint with a supervisor + contact your local MP. These 2 solutions have been known on this forum to speed up many EUSS Decisions of non-EU Family Members. In our case, the day the MP contacted the department, my partner received her outcome (in her case, a negative decision incorrectly based on being processed as a durable partner)

- Be aware that local and overseas civil partnerships should be treated separately to durable partnerships, there seems to be confusion about this at the EUSS Resolution Centre, as well as with case-workers but I can confirm this is true as our result was changed on this basis. A Civil Partner does not need to prove Durable (ie: 2+ years shared abode) Relationship.

IF YOU GET A NEGATIVE ANSWER :
- If you get a Negative Decision/Refusal and you think there has been a mistake from the caseworker (which was my case and potentially Lichzz case as well), then do follow the process for an Administrative Review.
Administrative Reviews have 2 major benefits as they allow you to (a) write a (digital) letter to the administrative review department explaining your argument in detail, and (b) they have to provide an answer within 28 days.
In your letter, be clear on what the PACS is and how it is currently recognised in the UK. Refer to the gov.uk pages stating that PACS is recognised in the UK as a Civil partnership for mixed AND same sex couples(gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/france/opposite_sex) .
Also, don't hesitate to make references to the EUSS Caseworker Guidance on the gov.uk website as appropriate, read this carefully as it can significantly aid in making your case (gov.uk/government/publications/eu-settlement-scheme-caseworker-guidance) .
If you don't get an answer within 28 days (which was not our case, we had an answer after 26 days), feel free to message your local MP as they can then contact the EUSS and complain on your behalf.

In short, our experience confirms that PACS is now properly recognised in the UK for same AND opposite sex partnerships, and allows the Non-EU Partner of a Settled French Citizen in the UK to get Pre-Setlled/Settled Status.

I hope this helps.
I wish you best of luck to all of you.
This forum has been super useful. I'll try to help further if I can.

Many thanks

Ben1Ben
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Re: French PACS recogised by UK authorities now in 2020?

Post by Ben1Ben » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:09 pm

lichzz wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:55 pm
Ben1Ben wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:20 pm
lichzz wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 am
Hi I’m back...I’m sorry that this happens to you too.
But clearly we should not think home office Will reflect the law to EU Settlement so soon:( And in my refusal letter it states the same as you. Saying we apply as durable partner.

After I got my refusal in March, I was in a crisis to prove my right to work too.
So hear me out, because everything was sort out now.

I decide to consult lawyers and talks to a few. They all state doing administrative review is not a good choice since they use the same guideline and it will cost you some money and time with the same result.
We decided to apply for EU residence card with my EU partner applying registeration certificate(this way it’s faster). And you can do it online without sending passport.
We send our application end of March (2 week after I got refused )and 3 week later I got a long COA (you can get it faster but mine was due to The begin of lockdown)which proof my right of work. So no panic with work anymore.

And in the end of June I got my Residence card as a family member of an EU citizen. And this card expired June 2021. So I have follow the instruction of my lawyer to use this residence card to apply EU settlement and my lawyer also said it will be very straight forward since Home office already have all my documents from my Residence card application.
I hope this helps... it can be nice to have a short consult with a lawyer to sort out your choices. I def think you still have time to apply for residence card and then apply EU settlement scheme. I know the system is stupid....but it is like that:(

Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck!
Hey lichzz, thank you for this message, it is very encouraging. Could you kindly share with me the contact of the lawyer you used please? I am interested.
Also, does it mean that with the EU residence card you won't need to provide any further information to prove your relationship with your civil partner?

Thanks a lot
Hi Ben,

We use xxxxxxx in London. I'm not sure if sharing this info is ok on this board?
We did provide information about our relationship since our lawyer said we can procide just in case.
But at the end seems like they consider us as family member rather than extend family member.
And my case pass through very fast consider it was during lockdown and others are having delay over 6 months.
Hi Lichzz,

As we are still waiting to hear back from the settlement scheme, we just applied to the Residence Card with myself applying for certificate of permanent residence. We had confirmation that it won't cancel the EU settlement scheme application.
Did you have to have your biometrics taken? You only uploade all your docs online on UKVCAS or you also had to send your passport or any other docs?
For us, it looks like they want my partner's biometrics to be taken. Probably because her current BRP has expired in January and not sure they can use the biometrics that were taken during the EU Settlement scheme's application.

Thanks a lot for your help!
Ben

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