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UKBA To Charge For EEA Applications

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

thsths
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Re: Don't be so negative

Post by thsths » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:25 pm

borek wrote:"We will be introducing a fee of £300 for applications made in person at our public enquiry office in the future, but there will no fee for applications made by post."
They used to process EEA1 applications in person, and the promise was that most applications would be decided the same day. I do not think they do that any more, and anyway it took weeks to get an appointment, so it was not as useful at it may seem.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:42 pm

Forget it, won't happen. In the bin.

It's important that everyone is treated equally.

No favours for those who can pay extra - not cricket, I'm afraid.

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Post by big_ibra » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:44 am

So any update?

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:20 am

big_ibra wrote:So any update?
No

big_ibra
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Post by big_ibra » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:18 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
big_ibra wrote:So any update?
No
thnx

vinny
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Post by vinny » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:52 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

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Post by a.s.b.o » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:37 pm

vinny wrote:New immigration fees proposed.

See here:
£55
interesting. would be interesting to see skinny and pale ukba arse whipped in court.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:16 pm

Amazing. Think they will finally process RCs in only 6 months?

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Post by waki » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:00 pm

25 February 2013

"Today, Immigration Minister Mark Harper laid a written ministerial statement proposing fee increases for visa applications made overseas, and applications made in the UK.

The proposals laid in Parliament today and on 14 March, subject to Parliamentary approval, will take effect from 6 April 2013.

Immigration Minister, Mark Harper said:


'These increases are mostly in line with inflation and will ensure that the UK continues to welcome the brightest and the best. It is only right that those who use and benefit from the immigration system should contribute more than the UK taxpayer.'

The proposed fee increases takes place against a difficult financial context for the UK Border Agency and the government as a whole. [quote]We believe our proposals to increase fees strike the right balance between ensuring the UK Border Agency continues to provide a world class service and maintaining a fees structure that does not inhibit the UK's ability to continue to attract those businesses, migrants and visitors who most benefit the UK.[/[/quote]u]These adjustments will also allow us to improve our levels of customer service and deliver a high quality immigration service at a challenging time for public finances across the UK.

A full table of the proposed fees is included in the written ministerial statement."

World class clown they are, i believe they have to go to germany to learn how things work and how effective things could be if for ones they can be humble enough to admit they are failure.

dsab85
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Post by dsab85 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:11 pm

I don't think anybody really would mind the relatively small fee, IF it is used to bring down the processing time to some slightly more acceptable levels, in line with other EEA countries (6-8 weeks, I would say).

I would have paid £500 if it would have meant it will be processed in less then 4 weeks.

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Post by renu » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:22 pm

dsab85 wrote:I don't think anybody really would mind the relatively small fee, IF it is used to bring down the processing time to some slightly more acceptable levels, in line with other EEA countries (6-8 weeks, I would say).

I would have paid £500 if it would have meant it will be processed in less then 4 weeks.
i don't think they will bring the processing time any less than 6 months.

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Post by ruthie » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:04 pm

Just notice there is small font wording in the document right below the EEA section.
Residence Documents issued under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations are not mandatory. These fees will be introduced later in 2013 when the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 have been amended. Full information will be provided on the UKBA website.
The reason of charging the fee is quite interesting. Anyone knows what the amendment it will be?[/quote]

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:47 pm

renu wrote:
dsab85 wrote:I don't think anybody really would mind the relatively small fee, IF it is used to bring down the processing time to some slightly more acceptable levels, in line with other EEA countries (6-8 weeks, I would say).

I would have paid £500 if it would have meant it will be processed in less then 4 weeks.
i don't think they will bring the processing time any less than 6 months.
If anything it will add to time, processing a fee and checking that it has been paid will adds complexity.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:17 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:If anything it will add to time, processing a fee and checking that it has been paid will adds complexity.
Ouch!!!!

A little more detail at http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... n-id-cards

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Post by vinny » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:48 am

More comments in RC fee £ 55.
fysicus wrote:Very remarkable. In article 25 (paragraph 2) of Directive 2004/38 it is stated explicitly:
All documents mentioned in paragraph 1 shall be issued free of charge or for a charge not exceeding that imposed on nationals for the issuing of similar documents.
I wonder what these similar documents for British citizens are, that would cost £55 or more?

By the way, this document gives extra information, in particular the processing cost for each type of application: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... s-fees.pdf
They quote here £82 for all EEA applications. I cannot believe it is really the same for all EEA applications, because an EEA2 application is by definition more complicated than an EEA1, etc.
dsab85 wrote:I don't think anybody really would mind the relatively small fee, IF it is used to bring down the processing time to something slightly more acceptable (6-8 weeks, I would say).

I would have paid £500 if it would have meant it will be processed in less then 4 weeks.
ravii wrote:I am much more happy to pay up to £ 1000, if ukba offer same day window service.
sheraz7 wrote:But the foot note on this page is suggesting that it will be introduced later in 2013 after some amendements in EEA 2006.
renu wrote:
HO will charge applicants and still make them wait for months. if ppl are paying, i think it should be same day service.
nidaulhaque wrote:they cant charge fees for eea application under regulation 2006, it will be against the law,

it will be still 6 months plus waiting time
renu wrote:
nidaulhaque wrote:they cant charge fees for eea application under regulation 2006, it will be against the law,

it will be still 6 months plus waiting time
i am thinking the same.
sheraz7 wrote:
sheraz7 wrote:But the foot note on this page is suggesting that it will be introduced later in 2013 after some amendements in EEA 2006.
frei wrote:
nidaulhaque wrote:they cant charge fees for eea application under regulation 2006, it will be against the law,

it will be still 6 months plus waiting time
It is not against the law actually, there is a basis for it in the law. In France it cost about three hundred plus euros for a residence card application. In Germany it cost £28.80.
fysicus wrote:If you go back to the beginning of this thread and read my post there, you will see that it depends on the charge for similar documents for nationals of the member state.
It is a bit vague, but in France and Germany there are apparently such documents, in the UK I am not aware of any, and that would make charging for EEA applications illegal.
frei wrote:
fysicus wrote:If you go back to the beginning of this thread and read my post there, you will see that it depends on the charge for similar documents for nationals of the member state.
It is a bit vague, but in France and Germany there are apparently such documents, in the UK I am not aware of any, and that would make charging for EEA applications illegal.
ID cards for French national does not cost three hundred plus euros, it must be much lesser than that, I agree in Germany it is same 28.28 euros for national ID
ravii wrote:Each RC/PR cost UKBA £ 82,so if they charge £ 55 then still UKBA lose £ 27 each application.RC/PR for EEA national should not be free.at least they have to pay the cost plus if ppl want speedy service then same day service with additional charges would be acceptable.
Jambo wrote:
frei wrote:In France it cost about three hundred plus euros for a residence card application
Are you sure?

This indicates it's free (or 25€ if lost).
sheraz7 wrote:
ravii wrote:Each RC/PR cost UKBA £ 82,so if they charge £ 55 then still UKBA lose £ 27 each application.RC/PR for EEA national should not be free.at least they have to pay the cost plus if ppl want speedy service then same day service with additional charges would be acceptable.

In contrary to PBS (point based application) charging for European residence card applications is not simply easy and certainly need amendment by involving the member states which already indicated in the footnote that this charges will apply later 2013 once some amendments in EEA2006.
frei wrote:
Jambo wrote:
frei wrote:In France it cost about three hundred plus euros for a residence card application
Are you sure?

This indicates it's free (or 25€ if lost).
There was a user on this forum, who paid claimed they pay more than 300 euros for their French residence card and below again is confirmed by the French immigration. I also note they claim it's a visa regularisation fee.

The User complained to Solvit who claimed member state can sometimes charge for RC application, if I do find the thread I shall post it on

It is a PDF I do not know how to upload the whole of the unfortunately.
1. The format of residence permits issued in France follows the rules laid down by Regulation 1030/2002/EC of 13 June 2002 as amended
by Regulation 380/2008/EC of 18 April 2008 which requires Member States to grant to foreigners residence permits containing an
electronic component including two biometric data: a digital photograph and the image of two fingerprints of the holder. In accordance
with a time schedule for the implementation of this Regulation, the integration of digital photograph in the electronic component started
on 20 May 2011 whereas certain residence permits with the holder’s fingerprints have been delivered since 20 June 2012. The issuance
of this new model of residence permits is spreading and should be completed by the end of the third quarter of 2013. These residence
permits are issued to third-country nationals as well as non-EEA family members of EEA nationals.

2. The issuance of residence permits to non-EEA family members of EEA nationals is free of charge. Applicants only have to pay for a
duplicate. In case of irregular entry, the issuance of the first residence permit is subject to the payment of a regularization visa right of
340€.


3. Law No. 2003-1119 of 26 November 2003 on the control of immigration, residence of foreigners in France and nationality gave a legal
basis for the collection of biometric data from foreigners applying for a residence permit in France. Article 11 of this law inserted in
Order No. 45-2658 of 2 November 1945 on the conditions of entry and residence of foreigners in France a provision which became the
first sentence of the first paragraph of the Article L. 611-3 of the Code on Entry and Residence of Foreigners and Right of Asylum
(Code de l’entrée et du séjour des étrangers et du droit d’asile = CESEDA) reads as follows: “In order to guarantee the right of
residence of legally staying persons and fight against the irregular entry and residence of foreigners in France, fingerprints and a
photograph of foreigners (...),applying for a residence permit can be identified, stored and subject to automated processing under the
conditions established by law No. 78-17 of 6 January 1978 relating to data, files and freedoms.” Decree No. 2011-638 of 8 June 2011
on the files management application of foreign nationals, residence permits and travel documents of foreign nationals determine the
conditions of application of such a measure.

4. Non-EEA family members of EEA nationals are required to hold a residence permit. If the document has been lost or stolen, they must
apply for a duplicate. They have to report theft to the police or to the gendarmerie where the offence occurred if the theft took place in
France or to the local police and the nearest consulate if the theft took place abroad. They have to report loss to the prefecture or subprefecture
of their place of residence. In both cases, they have to apply for a duplicate at the prefecture or sub-prefecture of their place
to residence. To be re-issued a residence permit, the applicant has to pay a tax of 16€ by ordinary tax stamps.

5. There is no obligation to notify the authorities of changes in foreigners’ circumstances which affect their status under Directive
2004/38/EC.
6. The issuance of a duplicate of a residence permit is charged. To be re-issued a residence permit, the applicant has to pay a tax of 16€ by
ordinary tax stamps.

7. Any difficulty regarding the issuance of such documents has been raised.
8. Article 5(2) of Directive 2004/38/EC stipulates that family members are subject to the obligation of entry clearance visas in accordance
fysicus wrote:Can you not read??

I see this sentence very clearly in what you posted:
The issuance of residence permits to non-EEA family members of EEA nationals is free of charge.
However, there seems to be a charge of 340 euros for illegal immigrants who subsequently claim EU rights. That's a very different issue, although I still don't see how it can be in agreement with 2004/38.
frei wrote:
fysicus wrote:
I see this sentence very clearly in what you posted:
The issuance of residence permits to non-EEA family members of EEA nationals is free of charge.
However, there seems to be a charge of 340 euros for illegal immigrants who subsequently claim EU rights. That's a very different issue, although I still don't see how it can be in agreement with 2004/38.
If you had stopped there and not included this
fysicus wrote:Can you not read??
You would have been applauded, but you had to shoot yourself in the foot?
Frei wrote:There was a user on this forum, who paid claimed they pay more than 300 euros for their French residence card and below again is confirmed by the French immigration. I also note they claim it's a visa regularisation fee.
As I said, there was someone on the forum a time ago who made the complaint of being charged for residence card application, and having seen that amount showed up in the document, it had clouded my attention to read to detail, It was more of I already knew you charge for residence card applications.
frei wrote:
Finland is charging 95 euros for a residence card. The same fee is charged in case the holder of the card reapplies for a card e.g. due to
the loss of the card or changes in the information contained in the card. The fee is based on the Decree of the Ministry of the rubbish
(The Decree of the Finnish Ministry of the rubbish on the fees for the performances of the Finnish police in 2012). The processing fees
are adjusted annually.

Found a link for the whole document here http://www.emnnorway.no/EMN-Media-Archi ... ly-permits
Jambo wrote:
frei wrote: Found a link for the whole document here http://www.emnnorway.no/EMN-Media-Archi ... ly-permits
Interesting. Seems like the UKBA were doing some research 4 months ago in preparation to start charging for residence documentation under EEA regulation.
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:EEA1 and EEA3 are not mandatory. Technically, EEA2 and EEA4 are not, but in practice, it could be argued that they are - no right to work, no right to travel, etc.

What document might be considered to be equivalent, passport perhaps?

In my opinion, any fee charged will in no way affect the timeliness of the application.
Jambo wrote:
Jambo wrote:
frei wrote: Found a link for the whole document here http://www.emnnorway.no/EMN-Media-Archi ... ly-permits
Interesting. Seems like the UKBA were doing some research 4 months ago in preparation to start charging for residence documentation under EEA regulation.
Also it seems that the UK is seeking to issue to a biometric card to EEA applicant. Maybe they will argue the fee is to cover that cost (but then there is no equivalent card for Brits).
sheraz7 wrote:Also it seems that the UK is seeking to issue to a biometric card to EEA applicant. Maybe they will argue the fee is to cover that cost (but then there is no equivalent card for Brits).


Yes I agree with the Jambo. Its more likely possible to happen this.
nidaulhaque wrote:
Jambo wrote:
frei wrote: Found a link for the whole document here http://www.emnnorway.no/EMN-Media-Archi ... ly-permits
Interesting. Seems like the UKBA were doing some research 4 months ago in preparation to start charging for residence documentation under EEA regulation.
Yes here is the link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... n-id-cards
Jambo wrote:OK.

So in order to be able to control the influx of Romanians/Bulgarians the DM is warning us all about, they would start charging money from everyone. Interesting.

And I agree, it will have no affect on the process time.
fysicus wrote:
nidaulhaque wrote:Yes here is the link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... n-id-cards
Politicians are rarely appointed on the basis of skills and expertise, and mr Harper goes to great lengths to prove he is no exception to the rule.

All measures he wants to impose on EU nationals are illegal, unless they are also imposed on British nationals.

For example:
The idea was first raised by Philip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, who claimed the Spanish already "interpret the free movement directive much more robustly" by requiring all European Union citizens and family members to register if they want to live there for more than three months. They also require notification of any change in address or marital status.
I don't now the details about Spain, but in the Netherlands there is the GBA (Common Population Register) and everybody (regardless of nationality or status) living in the Netherlands has to be registered in there, and any change in the registered details (such as address) has to be reported within 5 days. In essence this system was introduced by Napoleon, and so it exists in most countries that were under Napoleontic occupation.
In the UK there is nothing like that, and therefore it cannot be imposed on EU nationals either. It has nothing to do with a robust interpretation of free movement; it is simply about treating EU nationals as your own citizens.
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: In my opinion, any fee charged will in no way affect the timeliness of the application.
I'd changed my stance on this slightly. What I'd meant was that a fee won't help expedite applications. We are dealing with bureaucracy - requirements are met or they are not.

If anything fee is likely to increase times as it must be processed, checked etc.
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
fysicus wrote:
nidaulhaque wrote:Yes here is the link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... n-id-cards
Politicians are rarely appointed on the basis of skills and expertise, and mr Harper goes to great lengths to prove he is no exception to the rule.

All measures he wants to impose on EU nationals are illegal, unless they are also imposed on British nationals.

For example:
The idea was first raised by Philip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, who claimed the Spanish already "interpret the free movement directive much more robustly" by requiring all European Union citizens and family members to register if they want to live there for more than three months. They also require notification of any change in address or marital status.
I don't now the details about Spain, but in the Netherlands there is the GBA (Common Population Register) and everybody (regardless of nationality or status) living in the Netherlands has to be registered in there, and any change in the registered details (such as address) has to be reported within 5 days. In essence this system was introduced by Napoleon, and so it exists in most countries that were under Napoleontic occupation.
In the UK there is nothing like that, and therefore it cannot be imposed on EU nationals either. It has nothing to do with a robust interpretation of free movement; it is simply about treating EU nationals as your own citizens.
I understand that the UK could make residence certificates and cards mandatory right now if it wished (post 3 months' residence). The directive allows this. What they can't do is insist that the card are carried around as there is no equivalent provision for UK nationals.
fysicus wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I understand that the UK could make residence certificates and cards mandatory right now if it wished (post 3 months' residence). The directive allows this. What they can't do is insist that the card are carried around as there is no equivalent provision for UK nationals.
Yes, but because of the lack of a UK equivalent they cannot charge for it!

And I also think UKBA does not have the resources to cope with the many extra applications if Residence Certificates, etc. were made mandatory.
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
fysicus wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I understand that the UK could make residence certificates and cards mandatory right now if it wished (post 3 months' residence). The directive allows this. What they can't do is insist that the card are carried around as there is no equivalent provision for UK nationals.
Yes, but because of the lack of a UK equivalent they cannot charge for it!
I would love to know the basis for charging for the documentation. My guess and it's only a guess is a passport, but it's stretching imagination.
fysicus wrote:So would I and therefore I wrote to my MP about this, suggesting to ask the minister for a clarification.

I really can't see a passport qualify as a "similar document", residence certificates/cards are in addition to a passport (or ID-card) but do not replace it. And a Brit is not required to have a passport, as long as you don't want to travel abroad.
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:It might be that as the residence documentation is theoretically optional, you can chose to pay the fee or not. Similarly, one can chose to apply for a passport or not.

(In practice of course, it's not really optional for non-EU family members, due to the great inconvenience that would be caused in not having residence documentation).

In any case, I don't know the answer and am just speculating.
fysicus wrote:Optional or not is not relevant.
Article 25.2 of Directive 2004/38 simply says free of charge or at most the fee for similar documents for British citizens.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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vinny
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Post by vinny » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:10 am

wiggsy wrote:http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... s-2013.pdf
European Residence Document-– (Residence Certificate) 3 n/a £55

European Residence Document – (Document certifying permanent residence) 3 n/a £55

European Residence Document – (Residence Card and Derivative Residence Card) 3 n/a £55

European Residence Document – (Permanent Residence Card) 3 n/a £55

1 .....
2 .....
3 Residence Documents issued under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations are not mandatory. These fees will be introduced later in 2013 when the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 have been amended. Full information will be provided on the UKBA website.
does this mean that air lines will have to accept a persons marriage cert ETC as proof of entitlement to enter the uk?

or Derivative Residence... my wifes passport, and our childs birth certificate will facilitate entry clearance to the uk?


ALSO:

don't these charges breach the following legislation:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... on/17/made
Reg 17(7) - EEA RC
Reg 18(4) - PR RC
John wrote:Firstly, I have adjusted the title of this topic, removing the reference to 6th April, as clearly these particular fees, if introduced, will not be introduced from that date.

Secondly, you mention regulations but UKBA acknowledges those regulations will need to be changed before the fees can be introduced. And that will take time.

Thirdly, are the fees legal in terms of the EU Directive? Very debatable, and I shall not be surprised if UKBA end up backing down on this issue. But we shall just have to wait and see.
frei wrote:This post is related to this thread in the sticky, http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 4&start=60 Vinny locked a similar thread yesterday, it will be better to continue on the sticky thread.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Post by nidaulhaque » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:55 pm

i think its fair to charge 55 unless they speed up the process

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:27 pm

nidaulhaque wrote:i think its fair to charge 55 unless they speed up the process
I don't quite understand what you mean. I think what you might have meant is that it would be fair if they speed up the process. I don't think it will have a positive effect on time.

The question is how would the charge comply with what is written in the directive?

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Post by wiggsy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:47 am

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
nidaulhaque wrote:i think its fair to charge 55 unless they speed up the process
I don't quite understand what you mean. I think what you might have meant is that it would be fair if they speed up the process. I don't think it will have a positive effect on time.

The question is how would the charge comply with what is written in the directive?
im not all that fussed about that, but since a registration of Derivative Residence is not mandatory as per the document listed... how come so many "overstayers" who have an ~"automatic Derivative residence" and therefore the right to reside / work etc get hunted down by UKBA?

their own documents state registration is not mandatory.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:17 am

wiggsy wrote: im not all that fussed about that, but since a registration of Derivative Residence is not mandatory as per the document listed... how come so many "overstayers" who have an ~"automatic Derivative residence" and therefore the right to reside / work etc get hunted down by UKBA?

their own documents state registration is not mandatory.
The only people who do not need documentation are EU nationals, it is easy for them to establish their rights with thier passport / ID cards. Non-EU family members will have a much tougher time. If they chose to sit in the house all day, they won't need documentation, but if they want to do the things others need to do, travel, work, open back accounts, etc...

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