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Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

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MelC
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Post by MelC » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:36 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:If you are British and are working in France or are self sufficient, then your husband can get a Residence Card. Does not matter if you have been there for a long time, or only a few weeks.
you are just likely to be there a long time waiting for the Residence Card, as was mine and others experience in France.

IF the prefecture "permits" you to actually apply, which is the new game in some parts of France!
MelC

MelC
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Post by MelC » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:40 pm

Richard66 wrote:I think the UK and ireland ought to be expelled from the EU and that UK citizens should be made to apply for visas in order to come to the Continent and that the procedure should be the same the UK and Ireland forces foreigners to follow in order to obtain a visa.

Maybe this way they will see sense. :D
Hi Richard,

are you still in Italy?

I have just arrived in the UK (4 weeks) with non eu hubby, no EEA/fp and expired Res card!

10 mins to clear immigration at Calais, i was actually impressed!

have you travelled yet without the EEAfp?

i was prepared to blocakde Calais if i had to lol, Ok I'm a rabble rouser, even the HO think so!
MelC

MelC
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Post by MelC » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:50 pm

ciaramc wrote:I think what charles means is that from other peoples experiences - If you have a EU residence card from say UK/Ireland you could not travel around Schengen states without a visa? The same way Ireland/UK supposedly would not let say a person with an Spanish resident card in without a valid visa???? Charles am I right?

I'm not sure this is correct though in theory as a family member of a EU citizen that is exercising EU treaty rights you should be allowed to travel freely without a visa if traveling with spouse?? Can you also travel visa-free without spouse???

I think this same question keeps getting asked on this forum!! Because most countries are not reinforcing the Directive it is up to all of us as EU citizens to make a complaint against the country that is with holding our rights! We can come on here and talk all we want but unless we all start complaining about the way we are being treated nothing will change!

I find especially here in Italy that people just agree with the authorities when they say no instead of standing up for their rights!! Unless we all speak out nothing will change!!

The IO have to be informed and trained better!! It is a joke that none of them know about any of these laws regarding spouses of EU citizens and free movement! It is not like this directive just came into force these countries have had years to implement the rules and have still failed to do so!
I understand that people abuse the system....and due to this they look at everyone with doubt but the treatment of EU citizens and there spouses is disgracefull!!!

So I think everytime someone abuses there power and does not follow the law!! WE SHOULD REPORT THEM! to the European commission!

Oh THEY KNOW all right, they chose to try the strong arm tactic, for entry to the Uk for example, I spoke by telephone to several IO's who all said, "your husband MUST have an EEA/fp to gain entry to the UK"

Each IO gaveme their badge number, and I duly reported each case!

confronted with the same sentence in person at Calais, I asked:
"are you sure that he "MUST" ~ would that hold up in court?"

my husbands passport was stamped A1 and written on it Surinder Singh.

I totally agree with you, we have to keep pushing, I do it almost every day, even though the HO have indirectly "warned" me about it!

Useless as they can be, the EU commission have to stand on our side? in my case on my side against the UK HO. so they can bring it on huh?
MelC

ca.funke
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Post by ca.funke » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:13 pm

MelC wrote:Useless as they can be, the EU commission have to stand on our side? in my case on my side against the UK HO. so they can bring it on huh?
I know of no action the Commission took, in the past 5 years since I´m involved in this matter, that brought about any positive change.

All I get from them is "what you describe is actually illegal" "we will look into it" "considering the gravity of things the Commission took the decision to investigate this problem as a whole..."....

...The Ombusdman thinks the Commssion works "in due course".

Oh - I remember one thing that was changed: >>EU Commission gone wishy-washy and vague on Citizens rights<< - just to make it harder for us (citizens) to prove the point!

Real Results: Zip, nothing, nada, zero, nichts, niets, rien

MelC
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Post by MelC » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:56 am

ca.funke wrote:
MelC wrote:Useless as they can be, the EU commission have to stand on our side? in my case on my side against the UK HO. so they can bring it on huh?
I know of no action the Commission took, in the past 5 years since I´m involved in this matter, that brought about any positive change.

All I get from them is "what you describe is actually illegal" "we will look into it" "considering the gravity of things the Commission took the decision to investigate this problem as a whole..."....

...The Ombusdman thinks the Commssion works "in due course".

Oh - I remember one thing that was changed: >>EU Commission gone wishy-washy and vague on Citizens rights<< - just to make it harder for us (citizens) to prove the point!

Real Results: Zip, nothing, nada, zero, nichts, niets, rien
I totally agree that the commission have done nothing, even when confronted with serveral breaches by the same Member state of EXACTLY the same nature, they insist that it was 1 isolated incident!

the commission statement on thier website was an absolute disgrace, and YOur Europe adopted the same stance for a while, however, i have recently found them to be very helpful again, and it is they who confirmed that the commission is looking to the UK for court, but we all know how long that takes and how nicey nicey hand shake they all miff about, whilst leaving citizens stranded in impossible situations at times.

my last communication from "chiaro adamo" was to tell me that as i had not responded that no further action would be taken against the member state.

but i also have her previous communication that CONFRIMS reciept of my complaint, and my express permission to use my name and assures me that the case will proceed!!

this is against an embassy who threatens people with physical ejection and arrest when they apply for an entry visa to the EU for their spouse!

so i agree nada, zip zilch,

i was being a bit tongue in cheeck, but smilies aren[t working for me sorry!
MelC

youngun
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Post by youngun » Sun May 27, 2012 3:58 am

Hi, I've started a thread here with questions about this directive specific to our situation. I'm hoping anyone from here can help. It will be greatly appreciated.

Castor83
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Post by Castor83 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:25 pm

the directives seem to describe non eu family members, but alot of the examples are all partners/spouses etc.

Do these rules still apply to any "family member" as recognised by EU law, for example the child of non eea spouse?

this is where i get confused.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:31 pm

Castor83 wrote: Do these rules still apply to any "family member" as recognised by EU law, for example the child of non eea spouse?
Yes if under 21 (they need to be dependent if over 21).

skhurram
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Schenegen visa remarks Erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet

Post by skhurram » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:50 am

Hi,

I'm a Pakistani national married to a UK citizen. I and our two children were issued Schengen visas by the German embassy. The visas have this in remarks section:

Touristisches Visum

Erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet

I found from the annex, this means:

Touristisches Visum (tourist visa)

Erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet (employment not permitted)

We're planning to move to Germany (the whole family, of course) to apply for residence cards.

My questions are:
1) Do the remarks in the visa have any bearing on our ability to apply for the residence card?
2) Would I be allowed to work?
3) Should we go back to the embassy and ask for a new visa with the following remarks?

Familienangehöriger eines Unionsbürgers/EWR-Bürgers (family member of Union/EEA national)

I hope we don't need to go back to the embassy and the visa is just a means to enter the EU. Once inside Germany, the freedom of movement law should kick in making the visa remarks irrelevant.

Thank you for your time.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:54 am

I don't know what they normally do and whether this is a mistake.

Directive 2004/38/EC kicks in straight away irrespective as to the type of visa you have as you will be travelling with your British spouse.

skhurram
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Post by skhurram » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:02 am

Thanks EUsmileWEallsmile for your quick reply.

This means visa remarks can be ignored safely. Wonderful!

Another question:

We'll have around 11k euros savings with us. (We need to declare the cash at the airport, I must remember that.)

I read somewhere that if the EU citizen can show something like 10k euros in cash, they are considered self-sufficient and do not need to find work as a pre-req of residence card application. Isn't it so?

Thanks.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Re: Schenegen visa remarks Erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:29 am

skhurram wrote:I'm a Pakistani national married to a UK citizen. I and our two children were issued Schengen visas by the German embassy. The visas have this in remarks section:

Touristisches Visum
Erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet

I found from the annex, this means:

Touristisches Visum (tourist visa)

Erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet (employment not permitted)

We're planning to move to Germany (the whole family, of course) to apply for residence cards.

My questions are:
1) Do the remarks in the visa have any bearing on our ability to apply for the residence card?
2) Would I be allowed to work?
3) Should we go back to the embassy and ask for a new visa with the following remarks?

Familienangehöriger eines Unionsbürgers/EWR-Bürgers (family member of Union/EEA national)

I hope we don't need to go back to the embassy and the visa is just a means to enter the EU. Once inside Germany, the freedom of movement law should kick in making the visa remarks irrelevant.
For most EU member states, there is no special free movement visa, though often it will have a note something like what is in bold above.

You should not have any problems. What you are issued with is simply an entry visa. Does not matter if it is a single entry visa allowing you remain for 3 days, or a multi entry allowing you to remain for 90 days.

It makes no difference which visa you have when you apply for a Residence Card. It can be expired, or you can even not have a visa. All that matters is what the EU citizen is doing (e.g. working) and that there is the family relationship.

Note: There is no (English: zero!) (Deutche: Null) requirement for you to show that you have any savings, or for you to earn a particular amount or for you to show how much space you have in your apartment. If asked, refuse!

Do either of you already know some German?

skhurram
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Post by skhurram » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:08 pm

Thanks for your reply Directive.

Neither of us knows German. I know this is going to be a disadvantage. I'm trying to learn some; it should be a great help even though I hear English is rampant in the IT industry in Berlin.

Currently I'm scouring my network to find any Berlin connection. If all else fails, I guess something similar to Red Tape Translation should help. I gathered from this forum and other places that English alone won't cut it with [some] officials.

Thanks.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:19 pm

You will be fine initially. But will enjoy life more as you speak more and more German.

Beware though: I have had some of the worst colds of my life after visiting Berlin in the winter. Not sure why.

skhurram
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Post by skhurram » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:30 pm

Thanks for the warning about cold.

Any idea about return ticket requirement?

I'm sure we don't need return ticket for my wife.

Since I and our children have a tourist visa, I guess we should have return tickets to avoid any trouble from the airline or airport staff.

What do you think?

Thanks.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:36 pm

skhurram wrote:Thanks for the warning about cold.

Any idea about return ticket requirement?

I'm sure we don't need return ticket for my wife.

Since I and our children have a tourist visa, I guess we should have return tickets to avoid any trouble from the airline or airport staff.

What do you think?

Thanks.
You should not need a return ticket. Once you get to the german border you will definitely not need it. Get to the airport early in case you need to argue with them.

You should always travel with your marriage certificate and be aware of the info in http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:50 pm

skhurram wrote:Thanks EUsmileWEallsmile for your quick reply..
I see your questions have been answered, post back after you arrive and let us know how you got on.

Ishy
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Post by Ishy » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:13 am

Hello All,

I am a French National living in the UK, My non EEA wife recently received her EEA2 residence card. 2 days later we went to France by ferry.
French Border control in dover checked quickly the RC card and handed it back.
Coming back, the UK, The British control kept looking at it for at least 5-10 min. She said they change it sometimes and she haven't seen one like this before. I took other documents with me in case they say something but they were not needed.

This is for French natianal who are confused about the French ambassy website comments about your spouse needing a visa to travel to France if you are French, which doesn't make sense... Anway, you don't need one..

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:45 pm

Ishy wrote:Hello All,

I am a French National living in the UK, My non EEA wife recently received her EEA2 residence card. 2 days later we went to France by ferry.
French Border control in dover checked quickly the RC card and handed it back.
Coming back, the UK, The British control kept looking at it for at least 5-10 min. She said they change it sometimes and she haven't seen one like this before. I took other documents with me in case they say something but they were not needed.

This is for French natianal who are confused about the French ambassy website comments about your spouse needing a visa to travel to France if you are French, which doesn't make sense... Anway, you don't need one..
Nice story, thanks for posting.

barrow
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Post by barrow » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:05 pm

Hi
I have emailed VFS a number of times and am still awaiting their reply, so I'm hoping someone on here might be able to help me... My husband is South African with a UK Biometric Residence Permit and I am British. We are planning to travel to Tenerife next week with our two sons and have only just read about Directive 2004/38/EC, will he require a visa to travel to Tenerife with us or will he be allowed visa free entry as a family member?

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