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Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

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alons
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Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:20 pm

Hello,

I would like to relocate to Europe for several years (4-5 minimum) up to indefinitely. (not sure yet which country, I have several possibilities) and I have a few questions.

1. Which countries (if any) would allow me to get a residence permit for several years based on a monthly income minimum or a specific amount of money in the bank during the application process, and continue freelancing with my clients worldwide and without paying local taxes?

2. Which counties would allow me to work as a freelancer for several years, but will require me to apply for a work visa and that would be possible based on years of experience (more then 15), rather on a degree?

I would appreciate if you name all the countries that you know as to achieve my goal in Europe there are several countries i can move to.

Thank you!

noajthan
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by noajthan » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:05 pm

Why not work from home?
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

alons
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:08 pm

What i want to do (sports related) is not possible in my country. not seriously anyway.

secret.simon
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by secret.simon » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:19 pm

What is your current nationality?

Could you have claim by ancestry in any EEA country?
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

alons
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:56 am

Nationality is Israeli. So i don't need a visa just to travel to EU.
But no EU passport.
I'm looking for countries who will basically let me stay for as long as i can afford it as a freelancer. (more then 1-2 years).

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CR001
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by CR001 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:29 am

As you don't need a visa for a visit/holiday, you won't find any country that will allow you to stay for 1-2 years or longer, let alone work. You need a visa to live and work long term in any EU country.
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by secret.simon » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:01 am

alons wrote:Nationality is Israeli.
Based on this, I am presuming that you are of Jewish heritage (I am aware that 20% of Israelis are Arabs, but I am going with the majority).

Many Jews (mostly Ashkenazi) living in Europe were deprived of the citizenships of their European countries
in the 1930s and 40s. Many European countries (Germany and Poland being just two, there are others) now allow those Jews and their descendants to reclaim their European citizenship. It may be worthwhile seeing if you qualify.

Spain and Portugal go back further, to the Inquisition, and allow descendants of Sephardic Jews to resume their Spanish/Portuguese citizenships.

http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/Span ... enship.htm

Once you acquire a passport of any country within the EEA, you can work in all EEA countries and even across borders.

More info for future reference: http://nomadcapitalist.com/2013/05/19/t ... y-descent/
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

alons
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:12 am

CR001 wrote:As you don't need a visa for a visit/holiday, you won't find any country that will allow you to stay for 1-2 years or longer, let alone work. You need a visa to live and work long term in any EU country.
And which EU countries issue visas for people wanting to relocate as self-employed?

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:13 am

secret.simon wrote:
alons wrote:Nationality is Israeli.
Based on this, I am presuming that you are of Jewish heritage (I am aware that 20% of Israelis are Arabs, but I am going with the majority).

Many Jews (mostly Ashkenazi) living in Europe were deprived of the citizenships of their European countries
in the 1930s and 40s. Many European countries (Germany and Poland being just two, there are others) now allow those Jews and their descendants to reclaim their European citizenship. It may be worthwhile seeing if you qualify.

Spain and Portugal go back further, to the Inquisition, and allow descendants of Sephardic Jews to resume their Spanish/Portuguese citizenships.

http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/Span ... enship.htm

Once you acquire a passport of any country within the EEA, you can work in all EEA countries and even across borders.

More info for future reference: http://nomadcapitalist.com/2013/05/19/t ... y-descent/
Thanks for the info, but i already went down that path many years ago with a lawyer.
I will not have an EU passport.

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by Wanderer » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:54 pm

alons wrote:
CR001 wrote:As you don't need a visa for a visit/holiday, you won't find any country that will allow you to stay for 1-2 years or longer, let alone work. You need a visa to live and work long term in any EU country.
And which EU countries issue visas for people wanting to relocate as self-employed?
There aren't any, the only way in via work is via a sponsored work permit, ie an employer to employ you.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by secret.simon » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:31 pm

Try the EU Immigration Portal, but your best bet is to come to the EU on a sponsored work visa and acquire citizenship, typically in 5-10 years. Then you can go free-lance.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

alons
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm

secret.simon wrote:Try the EU Immigration Portal, but your best bet is to come to the EU on a sponsored work visa and acquire citizenship, typically in 5-10 years. Then you can go free-lance.
In 5-10 years i hope to be retired from all this programming... i'm 34 now :)
Let's call that plan B.

I actually just looked at the EU Immigration portal but the information there feels incomplete. Some state that the maximum for residence permit for self-employed is 1 year, but it doesnt state if that can be later extended. But it gives some basic idea on if it would be possible.

From looking there I actually couldn't figure out it it was possible for a freelance programmer to relocate to the UK. It says there on the bottom something about a tier 1 - general (which I guess would be me) which is no longer available. I don't know what to make of it.

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by CR001 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:52 pm

alons wrote:From looking there I actually couldn't figure out it it was possible for a freelance programmer to relocate to the UK. It says there on the bottom something about a tier 1 - general (which I guess would be me) which is no longer available. I don't know what to make of it.
There is no 'Tier 1 General' route anymore, it has been closed now, mainly due to the abuse of the visa group. UK is not part of Europe and has its own, separate immigration rules. The only work options you would have is Tier 2 General for which you need a sponsoring employer or Tier 1 Entrepreneur for which you need substantial funds to invest and have to set up a business.
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alons
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:53 pm

That's what I thought.
Bummer.

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:58 pm

Some of the guys here at work are asking me why to go through all this trouble if all i'm doing is to sit at my hotel room / apartment and work with my laptop. And just go the route asking for residence without work permit for as long as i want to stay freelance and do my thing.

Do they have a point?

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by noajthan » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:00 pm

alons wrote:That's what I thought.
Bummer.
Europe imports tens of thousands from rest of world to do its programming now, on both Tier 2 and EU migration routes.

Noone just asks for residence without work permit in Europe. How could that possibly work?!
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:08 pm

noajthan wrote: Europe imports tens of thousands from rest of world to do its programming now, on both Tier 2 and EU migration routes.

The thing I'm so afraid of with getting a sponsored job, is that if something happens before I get my citizenship (which is a reasonable assumption since its a few years), I get kicked out. I don't even know if i'll have time to regroup over there and find a new job before i have to leave.
What if i rented an apartment on a yearly contract for example? How can someone make any long term commitments in the new country that way.

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by CR001 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:11 pm

alons wrote:
noajthan wrote: Europe imports tens of thousands from rest of world to do its programming now, on both Tier 2 and EU migration routes.

The thing I'm so afraid of with getting a sponsored job, is that if something happens before I get my citizenship (which is a reasonable assumption since its a few years), I get kicked out. I don't even know if i'll have time to regroup over there and find a new job before i have to leave.
What if i rented an apartment on a yearly contract for example? How can someone make any long term commitments in the new country that way.
That is the risk that all migrants (myself and other mods/members included) take. Most of the time it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by noajthan » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:13 pm

alons wrote:
noajthan wrote: Europe imports tens of thousands from rest of world to do its programming now, on both Tier 2 and EU migration routes.
The thing I'm so afraid of with getting a sponsored job, is that if something happens before I get my citizenship (which is a reasonable assumption since its a few years), I get kicked out. I don't even know if i'll have time to regroup over there and find a new job before i have to leave.
What if i rented an apartment on a yearly contract for example? How can someone make any long term commitments in the new country that way.
Well people do.
Some of them are members here.
Good, industrious, innovative, hard-working people.
Some buy houses, start families, start multiple businesses & etc etc.
And often all is done through the medium of a foreign language.

I also employ a dozen or more such high-calibre people myself; high-powered citizens who could probably work pretty much anywhere in the world. I'm humbled that they work for me.

Some make a go of it and become citizens.
Some do fall by the wayside; they may hit a personal or financial wall. Or abuse their visa or otherwise fail to meet requirements.

Perhaps they will tell you - or you can browse through forum postings to dip a toe into 'our world'.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: Relocation to EU as a freelance programmer

Post by alons » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:17 pm

And generally speaking in most countries, replacing a sponsor (either because he fired you / closed your department or because you yourself want to change company) - Do you have a few months at least to try and do that before they kick you out and you have to continue searching from your origin country?
Last edited by alons on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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