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Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

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Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by Obie » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:41 pm

Immigrant has a lot to worry about this governments apparent crusade against them.

NHS fee is proposed to be increased from £400 a year to £625 from October 2020.

I will advise those whose renewal are due by December - January to simply apply in October.


https://www.freemovement.org.uk/immigra ... ober-2020/
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by bathanza » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:35 pm

This really is cruel. Thanks for posting.

Husband's timeline - overstayer 11 yrs
08/16 - FLR (FP) Partner, refused 02/18
03-08 2018 - JR permission refused with merit
08/18 - FLR FP (Partner) PSC - Approved
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by seagul » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:49 pm

IHS shouldn't be increased because new EU nationals along with their family members from next year will hopefully start paying it as well.
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by iwolga » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:22 pm

seagul wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:49 pm
IHS shouldn't be increased because new EU nationals along with their family members from next year will hopefully start paying it as well.
After EU migration will become difficult to blame, the government will need to find some other "enemy of the state". I assume coronavirus is currently an ideal excuse of the increase in fees.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by geoeng » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:31 pm

iwolga wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:22 pm
I assume coronavirus is currently an ideal excuse of the increase in fees.
Hardly, this was a campaign promise the government is delivering on. It was going to happen regardless of the current situation. It's an easy way to make it seem like they are protecting the NHS that doesn't lead to much active opposition.
I'm just a guy on the Internet who immigrated to the UK. My opinions are based on my experience and interpretation of the immigration rules and should not be considered legal or immigration advice; your mileage may vary.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by Zerubbabel » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:54 pm

Asking for £625 is a hostile policy? I beg to differ.

A hostile policy would have been asking for £20'000 health surcharge.

£625 this less than what I pay in a month of National Insurance contributions. I am not even complaining about it. This is how an organised society works. We all need to pay to make services around us work.

I know places in Africa where patients in need of life saving surgeries have to pay for in cash and in advance otherwise they will be left dying in the street.

Thanks God, we are not like that in the UK but NHS is not free and it's on its knees. Borderline, the NHS is not fit for purpose. We have one of the worst health coverage of the modern world.

A friend of mine, 20 years+ contribution, has a little daughter, 5 years old with a life limiting illness. Last year, she was in severe pain. So strong that she needed morphine for it. The NHS gave them an appointment with a specialist for her condition in 6 months. Horror stories like that, are not just in the papers but are daily experience for many people in this country.

While I helped a lot of people to sort their immigration affairs, if someone tells me £600 is unfair to get access to the NHS, I will show him the world map and ask him to pick-up another country. This contribution is not a scam. It's not making anyone rich. It's just going to a bucket that is already deep in deficit.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by THO » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:09 pm

Here here Zerubbable, too many people here come to the UK and think it owes them something for nothing, they see it as a country where everything is free and handouts abundant. If you don't want to pay such a high fee, or can't afford them, then tough. Who pays for it all?

The World is full of injustice, and making a minor contribution to the NHS, to have access to it is not unfair or unjust.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by Obie » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:39 pm

It is a hostile policy, as it targets migrant irrespective of whether or not they work and contributes to the economy.

Most migrant contributes to the NHS through their NI contribution, and most are healthy and do not even use the NHS at all. So imposing an additional levy on them, when there is not any evidence that they disproportionately use the health service, to me, it seem like a demonstration of hostility towards them, and I stand by my views.

I am sure you will be aware that the NI contribution is what is used to subsidise the NHS.
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by THO » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:10 pm

Obbie, the payment they make is for having access to the NHS from day one, something which costs many many millions to run each year. The amount of NI they start to pay will be nowhere near the amount it costs the NHS to treat them if they become ill or break a bone etc etc. It would take them years of NI payments to cover the costs of some treatments, and since the NHS works by sharing the cost of treatments, of a smaller amount of people than those who pay into it, like any insurance does, someone has to cover the cost.

In this case, 300K people arrive in the UK per year from outside, so who pays for the 2% or 5% of them who are taken ill? Why should I pay more? So, they pay to come here and contribute towards the other immigrants potential costs.

And of course it contributes to the economy, should they be allowed in for free? Come here take advantage of all the hard work and tax paid by every British citizen and expect it to cost them nothing?

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by geoeng » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:16 pm

Hostile it may be but I can't imagine such a policy would ever arouse much sympathy outside of an immigration forum and since most immigrants are unable to vote in general elections while going through the visa process, continued increases seem likely. While many migrants may not use the service, it is there for those that need it and for that reason alone it remains excellent value for money.
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by seagul » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:13 pm

I agree with OBIE. There are thousands of migrants who even after paying the IHS fee never even visited their GP. There is an unprecedented rise in the medical negligence cases through NHS therefore this increase is unjustifiable. In my view better than IHS the applicants should be allowed to buy their private medical insurance. Also funnily a lot of persons along with their families once got settlement then become govt patriots and favor all those policies which will affect new migrants without forgetting their own previous status.
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by THO » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:22 pm

I would expect you to say that Seagul. Tell me, who will police those people to buy their own private medical insurance? And how much will it cost and they will also need to pay NI, so how will it be better value? And if they don't buy insurance, what will happen if the fall ill, do you think they would be left at the side of the road to die like they would in other countries, or would they be treated, despite the NHS knowing they do not have any money or have not paid anything into the pot.

According to you we should make the whole country free for any immigrant who feels they won't need public services.

Bottom line is, the UK needs people to pay for its services. Immigrants need to contribute.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by Obie » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:06 pm

THO wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:10 pm
Obbie, the payment they make is for having access to the NHS from day one, something which costs many many millions to run each year. The amount of NI they start to pay will be nowhere near the amount it costs the NHS to treat them if they become ill or break a bone etc etc. It would take them years of NI payments to cover the costs of some treatments, and since the NHS works by sharing the cost of treatments, of a smaller amount of people than those who pay into it, like any insurance does, someone has to cover the cost.

In this case, 300K people arrive in the UK per year from outside, so who pays for the 2% or 5% of them who are taken ill? Why should I pay more? So, they pay to come here and contribute towards the other immigrants potential costs.

And of course it contributes to the economy, should they be allowed in for free? Come here take advantage of all the hard work and tax paid by every British citizen and expect it to cost them nothing?
Your views are completely misconceived and appears to miss the point.

It is indisputable that migrant always contributes more to the UK than they take out of it.

A UK migrant in places like Spain is likely to use the health service than a migrant coming to the UK.

Furthermore, there are many states in the world, whose citizens have reciprocal health and social security access with the UK, but still required to pay.

The issue is not about fees being paid, but the increase in the fee, and the arbitrary nature in which it is charged.

I work with migrants every day, and it pains me to see the hardship they face as a result of the 1000 fee they were required to pay in January 2019, which was essentially an 100% increase. Now they are facing a further 30% increase in less than 2 year. Above the rate of inflation.

If that is not part of the hostile policy or a concerted effort to ventilate or resuscitate it, then I do not see what is.
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by Obie » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:13 pm

THO wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:22 pm
I would expect you to say that Seagul. Tell me, who will police those people to buy their own private medical insurance? And how much will it cost and they will also need to pay NI, so how will it be better value? And if they don't buy insurance, what will happen if the fall ill, do you think they would be left at the side of the road to die like they would in other countries, or would they be treated, despite the NHS knowing they do not have any money or have not paid anything into the pot.

According to you we should make the whole country free for any immigrant who feels they won't need public services.

Bottom line is, the UK needs people to pay for its services. Immigrants need to contribute.
Let me be blunt, the problem UK has is not immigrants not paying their way, to the contrary. Immigrant always pay their way. They are more hardworking, versatile and reliable than the indigenous population, and that is a fact.

The UK government cannot make migrant pay for its work-phobic population.

Most of the work migrant does, that keeps the economy going, either British people will not touch it with a barge-pole, or they simply look at those job as beneath them.
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by Dennon » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:52 pm

Good.

Unlike Australia , Canada, New Zealand, we can't screen migrants for being a burden on our healthcare system. Thank the soft touch european courts for tying our hands. This means you could have full blown aids or terminal cancer, move here and use the NHS day one. If your kid is autistic , special classes and funding day one. How is that fair to the UK taxpayer?

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by THO » Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:33 am

Precisely Dennon. I am old enough to remember when the NHS was the envy of the World, modern equipment, fantastic doctors and short waiting times for treatment, prescriptions were free. It's a different story now there are over 13 million more people living in the UK, since I was born.

Health tourism was / is not a myth, it happens a lot, and even on this board you read about people who do not have the correct visa to stay, but are desperate to find some way not to be sent back because their child or they need specialist help and it's free here for them. That is fact, you can find the threads yourself.

Even in it's present poor condition, the NHS is far better than any free alternative in many of the countries the immigrants are leaving to come here, but if funding continues to lag too far behind, the NHS will die.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by FXR_1340 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:00 am

£625 is a bargain! Speak to someone eg US Citizen and ask them what they think.

To me the issue is not necessarily the IHS but the value of paying for a UK Visa. The UK is a shadow of what it once was. Quite simply its almost impossible to make a decent living in this country. Unless you have bundles of wealth (and/or you are cash only) prepare at best just to get by.

The only way we will renew our spouse visa is if emmigration is not possible.

Getting back to the OP point, why do so many want to come to UK? At least in part it is to gain access to a rediculously cheap healthcare system. Just over 600 quid per visa year. Bargain!

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by FXR_1340 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:09 pm

Spoke with my USC wife today about this increase. Her response was, £625 would be lucky to cover a single visit to a doctor and any required treatments.

Sorry OP, this is not a hostile act in a Hostile Environment. Its common sense. Its recognising the reality of the situation.

The real issue here may be affordability. Now that is a completely different discussion.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by Dennon » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:53 am

FXR_1340 wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:09 pm
Spoke with my USC wife today about this increase. Her response was, £625 would be lucky to cover a single visit to a doctor and any required treatments.

Sorry OP, this is not a hostile act in a Hostile Environment. Its common sense. Its recognising the reality of the situation.

The real issue here may be affordability. Now that is a completely different discussion.
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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by FXR_1340 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:45 am

Of course, there may be an alternative.

Immigrants pay the IHS (at the prevailing rate set)

or

Immigrants DO NOT get access to NHS for the first X (5?) years of living in the UK. At least by the time 5 years has passed immigrants will have/should have made a contribution.

Take your pick!

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by THO » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:58 am

FXR, you can not restrict access to the NHS. If someone is ill in this country, they get treatment because we as a nation will not allow people to die, i.e. run over by a car and needing hospital for several months. That's a good thing, we are a civilised country.

My beef with immigration system is the cost of the visa for my spouse. I am as British as it is possible to be, and just because I met (in Munich) and married a girl from Vietnam, I have to pay £K's for a visa to be with the one I love. On top of that, the fiery hoops I had to jump through to prove my relationship was real, and my income was high enough, went far beyond any of these people I keep reading about on here, who met the person they have spoken with for only a couple of months, when they got married, and all they need to produce is a few wedding pictures and some gift receipts!

Then I keep reading about how many of them are divorced now, although they are not really divorced, but they got married again anyway, how can they bring their second wife over!

My wife has instant access to NHS, (not that she needs it, and hope will not of course) so no issue from me about that charge. But I should not have to pay a wife tax (spouse visa) since I have paid many 10'sK tax already in my life.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by FXR_1340 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:04 pm

THO wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:58 am
FXR, you can not restrict access to the NHS. If someone is ill in this country, they get treatment because we as a nation will not allow people to die, i.e. run over by a car and needing hospital for several months. That's a good thing, we are a civilised country.

My beef with immigration system is the cost of the visa for my spouse. I am as British as it is possible to be, and just because I met (in Munich) and married a girl from Vietnam, I have to pay £K's for a visa to be with the one I love. On top of that, the fiery hoops I had to jump through to prove my relationship was real, and my income was high enough, went far beyond any of these people I keep reading about on here, who met the person they have spoken with for only a couple of months, when they got married, and all they need to produce is a few wedding pictures and some gift receipts!

Then I keep reading about how many of them are divorced now, although they are not really divorced, but they got married again anyway, how can they bring their second wife over!

My wife has instant access to NHS, (not that she needs it, and hope will not of course) so no issue from me about that charge. But I should not have to pay a wife tax (spouse visa) since I have paid many 10'sK tax already in my life.
I agree with your first para. Everyone should have access to healthcare. The issue is how that is achieved. Maybe compulsory health insurance for immigrants for the first X years in the UK?

The rest of your message I get as my spouse and I have gone through the same fiery hoops. So much so I will only give UKG more for Stage 2 of our Spouse Visa if there is no other viable option.

In fairness to the fiery hoops, these may well be necessary due to the number of illegal immigrants in UK. The ones who came on a Student Visa and quit the course, the ones who came on a Visit Visa and simply remained. That is the real issue. Anyone who says different is deluding themselves.

Immigrants are welcome but, like my wife and I, they must follow the rules. Good or bad!

Good luck to you in any future visa dealings.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by THO » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:41 pm

FXR, yes I know re people overstaying, you're right. Read this board and the number of people who start their thread with I came to UK 8 years ago on a visit visa which ran in 2012 and I stayed...., and all the people who give advice on how they can now make a claim to live here because they illegally married someone and sending them home would be against their rights etc.

My wife and I failed to get her 2 visitor visas, despite her travel history to Oz, Japan, Europe, without issue, because we could not prove she would go home. Reason they were so strict, all the over stayers.

Yes, we all need to follow the rules, but to my mind they are not always the same rules we follow. I had to provide 3 years of chat history, and pictures of us all around the World through the years we had been together, and we were turned down for her marriage visitor visa, because they did not believe we intended to get married because I had not been legally able to book a registry office meeting!! She has to have been in the UK for 8 days for that to be possible! So the rules are not the same I'm afraid.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by PM74Juve » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:33 am

Zerubbabel wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:54 pm
Asking for £625 is a hostile policy? I beg to differ.

A hostile policy would have been asking for £20'000 health surcharge.

£625 this less than what I pay in a month of National Insurance contributions. I am not even complaining about it. This is how an organised society works. We all need to pay to make services around us work.

I know places in Africa where patients in need of life saving surgeries have to pay for in cash and in advance otherwise they will be left dying in the street.

Thanks God, we are not like that in the UK but NHS is not free and it's on its knees. Borderline, the NHS is not fit for purpose. We have one of the worst health coverage of the modern world.

A friend of mine, 20 years+ contribution, has a little daughter, 5 years old with a life limiting illness. Last year, she was in severe pain. So strong that she needed morphine for it. The NHS gave them an appointment with a specialist for her condition in 6 months. Horror stories like that, are not just in the papers but are daily experience for many people in this country.

While I helped a lot of people to sort their immigration affairs, if someone tells me £600 is unfair to get access to the NHS, I will show him the world map and ask him to pick-up another country. This contribution is not a scam. It's not making anyone rich. It's just going to a bucket that is already deep in deficit.
But you seem to ignore that migrants are already subject to paying for the NHS in the normal way. So they're effectively asked to pay twice. And this amount is significant.... it appears you have a decent income... but for some this along with Visa fees (which are highly profitable for Home Office) is a problem. This is a deterrent to migrants including ones sought after since other nations do not seem to treat migrants as cash cows to fund their health services beyond normal expectations of residents.

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Re: Heartless government to increase IHS from £400 to £625 as part of hostile policy

Post by PM74Juve » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:56 am

FXR_1340 wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:00 am
£625 is a bargain! Speak to someone eg US Citizen and ask them what they think.

To me the issue is not necessarily the IHS but the value of paying for a UK Visa. The UK is a shadow of what it once was. Quite simply its almost impossible to make a decent living in this country. Unless you have bundles of wealth (and/or you are cash only) prepare at best just to get by.

The only way we will renew our spouse visa is if emmigration is not possible.

Getting back to the OP point, why do so many want to come to UK? At least in part it is to gain access to a rediculously cheap healthcare system. Just over 600 quid per visa year. Bargain!
Of course it's a bargain... but only if that's all you pay towards the NHS. If I said to you I'd sell you a loaf of bread for 20p you'd think that good value. If I told you though I'd be charging that on top of the usual price of 60p I charge ordinary customers I suspect you'd ask the question why you should pay more than everyone else for the same loaf of bread. That's what we're asking of non EU migrants... plus of course huge immigration application fees as you raise... and these two things suggest we are creating both a hostile environment towards migrants and a one more so than our competitors. The government announced this increase under the banner of to pay for health tourism... but I doubt it is people moving here or staying here who are the typical health tourist... in fact many are British who live abroad. I very much doubt the healthcare system is at the forefront of many migrants minds... more likely family, employment or study... the reason they're applying for the visa.

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