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After EU migration will become difficult to blame, the government will need to find some other "enemy of the state". I assume coronavirus is currently an ideal excuse of the increase in fees.
Hardly, this was a campaign promise the government is delivering on. It was going to happen regardless of the current situation. It's an easy way to make it seem like they are protecting the NHS that doesn't lead to much active opposition.
Your views are completely misconceived and appears to miss the point.THO wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:10 pmObbie, the payment they make is for having access to the NHS from day one, something which costs many many millions to run each year. The amount of NI they start to pay will be nowhere near the amount it costs the NHS to treat them if they become ill or break a bone etc etc. It would take them years of NI payments to cover the costs of some treatments, and since the NHS works by sharing the cost of treatments, of a smaller amount of people than those who pay into it, like any insurance does, someone has to cover the cost.
In this case, 300K people arrive in the UK per year from outside, so who pays for the 2% or 5% of them who are taken ill? Why should I pay more? So, they pay to come here and contribute towards the other immigrants potential costs.
And of course it contributes to the economy, should they be allowed in for free? Come here take advantage of all the hard work and tax paid by every British citizen and expect it to cost them nothing?
Let me be blunt, the problem UK has is not immigrants not paying their way, to the contrary. Immigrant always pay their way. They are more hardworking, versatile and reliable than the indigenous population, and that is a fact.THO wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:22 pmI would expect you to say that Seagul. Tell me, who will police those people to buy their own private medical insurance? And how much will it cost and they will also need to pay NI, so how will it be better value? And if they don't buy insurance, what will happen if the fall ill, do you think they would be left at the side of the road to die like they would in other countries, or would they be treated, despite the NHS knowing they do not have any money or have not paid anything into the pot.
According to you we should make the whole country free for any immigrant who feels they won't need public services.
Bottom line is, the UK needs people to pay for its services. Immigrants need to contribute.
UK has become a soft touch since the Blair yearsFXR_1340 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:09 pmSpoke with my USC wife today about this increase. Her response was, £625 would be lucky to cover a single visit to a doctor and any required treatments.
Sorry OP, this is not a hostile act in a Hostile Environment. Its common sense. Its recognising the reality of the situation.
The real issue here may be affordability. Now that is a completely different discussion.
I agree with your first para. Everyone should have access to healthcare. The issue is how that is achieved. Maybe compulsory health insurance for immigrants for the first X years in the UK?THO wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:58 amFXR, you can not restrict access to the NHS. If someone is ill in this country, they get treatment because we as a nation will not allow people to die, i.e. run over by a car and needing hospital for several months. That's a good thing, we are a civilised country.
My beef with immigration system is the cost of the visa for my spouse. I am as British as it is possible to be, and just because I met (in Munich) and married a girl from Vietnam, I have to pay £K's for a visa to be with the one I love. On top of that, the fiery hoops I had to jump through to prove my relationship was real, and my income was high enough, went far beyond any of these people I keep reading about on here, who met the person they have spoken with for only a couple of months, when they got married, and all they need to produce is a few wedding pictures and some gift receipts!
Then I keep reading about how many of them are divorced now, although they are not really divorced, but they got married again anyway, how can they bring their second wife over!
My wife has instant access to NHS, (not that she needs it, and hope will not of course) so no issue from me about that charge. But I should not have to pay a wife tax (spouse visa) since I have paid many 10'sK tax already in my life.
But you seem to ignore that migrants are already subject to paying for the NHS in the normal way. So they're effectively asked to pay twice. And this amount is significant.... it appears you have a decent income... but for some this along with Visa fees (which are highly profitable for Home Office) is a problem. This is a deterrent to migrants including ones sought after since other nations do not seem to treat migrants as cash cows to fund their health services beyond normal expectations of residents.Zerubbabel wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:54 pmAsking for £625 is a hostile policy? I beg to differ.
A hostile policy would have been asking for £20'000 health surcharge.
£625 this less than what I pay in a month of National Insurance contributions. I am not even complaining about it. This is how an organised society works. We all need to pay to make services around us work.
I know places in Africa where patients in need of life saving surgeries have to pay for in cash and in advance otherwise they will be left dying in the street.
Thanks God, we are not like that in the UK but NHS is not free and it's on its knees. Borderline, the NHS is not fit for purpose. We have one of the worst health coverage of the modern world.
A friend of mine, 20 years+ contribution, has a little daughter, 5 years old with a life limiting illness. Last year, she was in severe pain. So strong that she needed morphine for it. The NHS gave them an appointment with a specialist for her condition in 6 months. Horror stories like that, are not just in the papers but are daily experience for many people in this country.
While I helped a lot of people to sort their immigration affairs, if someone tells me £600 is unfair to get access to the NHS, I will show him the world map and ask him to pick-up another country. This contribution is not a scam. It's not making anyone rich. It's just going to a bucket that is already deep in deficit.
Of course it's a bargain... but only if that's all you pay towards the NHS. If I said to you I'd sell you a loaf of bread for 20p you'd think that good value. If I told you though I'd be charging that on top of the usual price of 60p I charge ordinary customers I suspect you'd ask the question why you should pay more than everyone else for the same loaf of bread. That's what we're asking of non EU migrants... plus of course huge immigration application fees as you raise... and these two things suggest we are creating both a hostile environment towards migrants and a one more so than our competitors. The government announced this increase under the banner of to pay for health tourism... but I doubt it is people moving here or staying here who are the typical health tourist... in fact many are British who live abroad. I very much doubt the healthcare system is at the forefront of many migrants minds... more likely family, employment or study... the reason they're applying for the visa.FXR_1340 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:00 am£625 is a bargain! Speak to someone eg US Citizen and ask them what they think.
To me the issue is not necessarily the IHS but the value of paying for a UK Visa. The UK is a shadow of what it once was. Quite simply its almost impossible to make a decent living in this country. Unless you have bundles of wealth (and/or you are cash only) prepare at best just to get by.
The only way we will renew our spouse visa is if emmigration is not possible.
Getting back to the OP point, why do so many want to come to UK? At least in part it is to gain access to a rediculously cheap healthcare system. Just over 600 quid per visa year. Bargain!