Do i actually need a divorce certificate for my ex-wife

Do i actually need a divorce certificate for my ex-wife to use in the application for my new wife's spouse visa.

Any help with my inquiry is much appreciated.

i got married in Pakistan 3 years ago, i am a UK citizen from Pakistan. i applied for a spouse visa for my wife at that time in 2011, but we ended up divorced 5 months later. she never entered the UK and her visa was refused.

Do i now need to get the divorce certificate attested and stamped to show the UKBA on my new spouse visa application?

As the ex-wife never entered the UK the marriage is not recognized in the UK anyway. only at the union council and the ministry of foreign affairs.

As a man can have 4 wife's there i think? and UKBA only allow 1 to enter the UK? or am i wrong in thinking that?

So does it matter to show UKBA that you have divorced your other wife's before there allow one to enter the uk?

I will be getting married to 1 wife in about 5 months time in Pakistan again, and i am just trying to cut back on the added hassle on getting unnecessary documents.

if you were married and got divorced you have to provide the divore certificate as proof. UKBA will have a record of the previous spouse visa.

thanks for reply,

thats what i initially thought, but what about if she never entered the UK. the UKBA then do not need to know about it,

as in Pakistan your allowed more than 1 wife?

so i was assuming as long as you just call over 1 wife then UKBA dont need to know about your other marriages.

just for the record, i am not married at the moment, i just want to get married once, not anymore times.

There will be a record of the first marriage in your original spouse visa application. It makes no difference that she didn't enter the UK on the visa. Neither is it relevant that in Pakistan under your religion you can marry more than one wife. The second marriage wouldn't be recognised under UK law without proof that you have divorced the first wife. You definitely need to submit the original divorce certificate. The application will be refused without it. Why do you have a problem with this? I assume your new wife is aware you've been married before?

As Casa has stated, you need to show evidence you are divorced. It is irrelevant whether or nor your first wife entered the UK.

As you are familiar with the visa form, it does ask the question if you have been previously married and if so, attach a decree absolute or any documents to show you were free to re-marry.

Absence of documentary evidence of the divorce is a highly likely to have the visa application refused.

Since you applied for a visa for your first wife, the Home Office will have on record you have been married before.

thanks casa and wr1 for clearing that up, i forgot that there ask those question on the new application form, as it takes 3 months to issue the divorce certificate i was trying to avoid the wait, but as we will be sorting out other documents then a 3 month wait wont be so bad.

if the divorce certificate is issued after my new marriage date will that be likely to cause a problem with the application?

as i have already divorced her 3 years ago, i just haven't got round to applying for the official divorce certificate as neither me or my ex-wife have needed it. so what i was hoping to do was to get the divorce process started in week 1 when i go visit pakistan ( this will take 3 month to be issued) and then in week 3 or 4 i will get married there, so i will be getting married before the actual divorce certificate is issued.

Will that cause any problems? as i cant sit around there for 3 months for the divorce certificate to be issued and then get married

Unfortunately, you will have to wait until you are completely divorced. I know people in Pakistan do get divorced through religious means without involving the courts but this is not recognised under UK law.

If you marry before the divorce is finalised officially, then this will mean you were not free to remarry at the time and will course all sorts of problems with your spouse's visa application.

Most likely it will be rejected but can't say for certain as IANAL.

Best not take the risk and play it safe. I know it's a PITA but you best do it right first time with a peace of mind.

WR1 wrote:Unfortunately, you will have to wait until you are completely divorced. I know people in Pakistan do get divorced through religious means without involving the courts but this is not recognised under UK law.

If you marry before the divorce is finalised officially, then this will mean you were not free to remarry at the time and will course all sorts of problems with your spouse's visa application.

Most likely it will be rejected but can't say for certain as IANAL.

Best not take the risk and play it safe. I know it's a PITA but you best do it right first time with a peace of mind.

thanks again for the reply, in pakistan you are free to marry more than 1 wife, so i was assuming i am free to remarry again now even though my previous divorce has not officially gone through.

what if i tell the divorce people that the divorce took place in 2011 but because i was not able to visit the country then i was not able to process- so i hope there put 2011 on the divorce certificate to show when i actually gave her the divorce

abdulraheem123 wrote:if the divorce certificate is issued after my new marriage date will that be likely to cause a problem with the application?

as i have already divorced her 3 years ago, i just haven't got round to applying for the official divorce certificate as neither me or my ex-wife have needed it. so what i was hoping to do was to get the divorce process started in week 1 when i go visit pakistan ( this will take 3 month to be issued) and then in week 3 or 4 i will get married there, so i will be getting married before the actual divorce certificate is issued.

Will that cause any problems? as i cant sit around there for 3 months for the divorce certificate to be issued and then get married

This actually happens quite a lot in Pakistan and yes, it will cause problems.

Have a look here, for instance:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... ge#p954036

ALKB wrote: This actually happens quite a lot in Pakistan and yes, it will cause problems.

Have a look here, for instance:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... ge#p954036

thanks i have read that post, but that seems to be a women getting married to someone from pakistan, and whose ex-husband had entered the uk already.

Whereas i am a male, and my ex-wife never entered the the UK, so i dont know if that would make a difference?

It makes no difference.

What you need to consider is the fact that whether a male can marry more than one wife in Pakistan is irrelevant in the UK as in the UK, you are only legally allowed to have one spouse.

As such, if your divorce is not finalised, there will be problems and rejection of the visa.

It makes no difference if you ex entered the UK or not.

The visa application will be based entirely on UK law, so you need to give up the idea what the law allows in Pakistan (more than one spouse) as that concept is rejected here in the UK.

i see your point about the uk law.

but say for example if a uk citizen had 3 wifes in pakistan, and he was in the process of divorcing 1 off his wifes, but at the same time as that he decides to get married to another wife. so at that point he will be having 4 wifes in total, but one of these is in the process of being divorced,
if he now decides to bring one of these wifes to the uk, will he have to divorce all of his 3 wifes? if so, then thats a dumb rule by the UKBA

abdulraheem123 wrote:i see your point about the uk law.

but say for example if a uk citizen had 3 wifes in pakistan, and he was in the process of divorcing 1 off his wifes, but at the same time as that he decides to get married to another wife. so at that point he will be having 4 wifes in total, but one of these is in the process of being divorced,
if he now decides to bring one of these wifes to the uk, will he have to divorce all of his 3 wifes? if so, then thats a dumb rule by the UKBA

Or a dumb rule/religion/law that allows a man to have more than one wife?

Wanderer wrote:

abdulraheem123 wrote:i see your point about the uk law.

but say for example if a uk citizen had 3 wifes in pakistan, and he was in the process of divorcing 1 off his wifes, but at the same time as that he decides to get married to another wife. so at that point he will be having 4 wifes in total, but one of these is in the process of being divorced,
if he now decides to bring one of these wifes to the uk, will he have to divorce all of his 3 wifes? if so, then thats a dumb rule by the UKBA

Or a dumb rule/religion/law that allows a man to have more than one wife?

this aint the forum to disrespect religion, if you cant help to answer the question then do not answer please

abdulraheem123 wrote:i see your point about the uk law.

but say for example if a uk citizen had 3 wifes in pakistan, and he was in the process of divorcing 1 off his wifes, but at the same time as that he decides to get married to another wife. so at that point he will be having 4 wifes in total, but one of these is in the process of being divorced,
if he now decides to bring one of these wifes to the uk, will he have to divorce all of his 3 wifes? if so, then thats a dumb rule by the UKBA

abdulraheem123 wrote:

Wanderer wrote:

abdulraheem123 wrote:i see your point about the uk law.

but say for example if a uk citizen had 3 wifes in pakistan, and he was in the process of divorcing 1 off his wifes, but at the same time as that he decides to get married to another wife. so at that point he will be having 4 wifes in total, but one of these is in the process of being divorced,
if he now decides to bring one of these wifes to the uk, will he have to divorce all of his 3 wifes? if so, then thats a dumb rule by the UKBA

Or a dumb rule/religion/law that allows a man to have more than one wife?

this aint the forum to disrespect religion, if you cant help to answer the question then do not answer please

The family law in the UK has it's origins in Christianity.

So with respect, Wanderer was just pointing out that calling the UK's law dumb is disrespectful as I understood him.

Maybe your wives could follow Nepalese hill tribes women and marry other men whilst married to you?

It would actually make sense in many parts of the world where men can marry lots of women at the same time to change family law so women can marry lots of men. Because men outnumber women in many places.

To the original poster about the initial question, the UK doesn't recognise polygamous marriages, so divorce after marriage might not help.

I would take care how this is approached.

This will help:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

That's the UKBA guidance on polygamous marriage.

Section 3 clearly shows that your second marriage isn't valid as you were domiciled in the UK.

Section 6 shows that your second wife will be refused until you're completely divorced because your first wife was grant entry clearance (even though she never used it).

Oh - and this is the guidance where it rules out the use of the informal divorce: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Dear Brother,
I came across the hell of this problem after one year i won appeal for my second wife visa as I submitted a divorce deed from union council that never be accepted in UK law they treat this document as Bare Talak which is not accepted. My advice is for you do 4 stepssteps before applying visa
1-Proper record of your arbitration process from union council
2-Signed Divorce document from union council which is obtain under MFLO
3-Proper record of your legal notices send by you to your ex-wife must be notices
4-Proof on your passport that you were there when divorce finalised and you signed
if you provide these document then you will be ok otherwise big big problem .
May Allah help you.
Regards
Fazal

canceled

fazalelahidogar wrote:Dear Brother,
I came across the hell of this problem after one year i won appeal for my second wife visa as I submitted a divorce deed from union council that never be accepted in UK law they treat this document as Bare Talak which is not accepted. My advice is for you do 4 stepssteps before applying visa
1-Proper record of your arbitration process from union council
2-Signed Divorce document from union council which is obtain under MFLO
3-Proper record of your legal notices send by you to your ex-wife must be notices
4-Proof on your passport that you were there when divorce finalised and you signed
if you provide these document then you will be ok otherwise big big problem .
May Allah help you.
Regards
Fazal

Thanks for the heads up bro, I need to think about what I will have to do, I will now wait for the divorce papers to go through first then get married again

Jazakallah khair for the info

MPH80 wrote:This will help:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

That's the UKBA guidance on polygamous marriage.

Section 3 clearly shows that your second marriage isn't valid as you were domiciled in the UK.

Section 6 shows that your second wife will be refused until you're completely divorced because your first wife was grant entry clearance (even though she never used it).

Oh - and this is the guidance where it rules out the use of the informal divorce: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

thanks for both of those links MPH80, i am just reading through them now.

my ex-wife has never entered the UK as the application of her spouse visa was refused in 2011. so she has never entered the UK.
i dont know if that makes any difference to me marrying again and where the divorce certificate is still in the process of being issued, as i understand it can take 3 months to get the divorce certificate

Section 6 shows that your second wife will be refused until you're completely divorced because your first wife was grant entry clearance (even though she never used it).

Clear enough this time?

MPH80 wrote:

Section 6 shows that your second wife will be refused until you're completely divorced because your first wife was grant entry clearance (even though she never used it).

Clear enough this time?

i still dont get it lol,

my ex-wife was not "granted entry clearance "
she was refused it

i dont know if that makes any difference

abdulraheem123 wrote:

MPH80 wrote:

Section 6 shows that your second wife will be refused until you're completely divorced because your first wife was grant entry clearance (even though she never used it).

Clear enough this time?

i still dont get it lol,

my ex-wife was not "granted entry clearance "
she was refused it

i dont know if that makes any difference

You are in the UKBA database as the sponsor for a spouse visa (first wife).

If you now turn up as sponsor in somebody else's (second wife) spouse visa application, you have to prove that you had been free to marry this second person as per UK law = you had to be divorced or widowed before marrying the second time and show this by way of a divorce certificate or death certificate.

ALKB wrote:
You are in the UKBA database as the sponsor for a spouse visa (first wife).

If you now turn up as sponsor in somebody else's (second wife) spouse visa application, you have to prove that you had been free to marry this second person as per UK law = you had to be divorced or widowed before marrying the second time and show this by way of a divorce certificate or death certificate.

thanks ALKB ,i think i now understand this, as i am British i am only allowed to marry once under UK law, even though i can marry 4 times in pakistan the UKBA will only recognize the first wife, and unless she is divorced first there wont recognize the second marriage.
So i am not actually free to marry again until the divorce to the ex-wife is complete