English Test Question in Online Form

Frz540 · Post by **Frz540** » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:22 pm

My partner applied for her first visa extension on a 5 year route from within the UK in December 2017 which was eventually refused in September 2018. She was instead transferred onto the 10 year route because of having a child.

Visa was refused because she submitted an A1 English Certificate instead of the now required A2.

She has been given no right of appeal or administrative review.

The application was made through the online portal that presented the question as you see below in the screenshot:

Once the whole form has been filled in, it is generated for the applicant to be downloaded, printed and sent off with all of your documents. On that final, completed and printed form the series of questions again appear as follows:

Now, the question above asking for the level of English language test, to my understanding, states A1 certificate to be an acceptable submission as a minimum, which is what my partner submitted.

I have further thoughts and observations to expand on this however to gain an objective opinion I'd first request some of you to simply look at that question from an applicant's point of view filling in their application online and kindly say how they feel about it.

Regards

PS. if the images do not appear, let me know I will upload them again or try something different.

seagul · Post by **seagul** » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:35 pm

That bit on form indeed causing confusion but without doubt A2 would be needed for extension.

mrshh · Post by **mrshh** » Tue May 14, 2019 1:23 pm

My spouse visa extension was also refused 3 weeks ago as I have submitted A1 certificate instead of A2. I think the online application form is misleading and I can see several persons have made the same mistake. The case worker did not even bother to email to clarify the reason why I have submitted A1 instead of A2 although in a letter before they refused my application, it is stated that they would contact me if further evidence or clarification is required. I’m quite disappointed at how it was handled given the application form itself is misleading.
I was however given the option to appeal. They have returned my passport and I have just passed the B1 test. Currently waiting for the certificate and will submit it to the Tribunal as supporting documentation for my appeal.

Frz540 · Post by **Frz540** » Thu May 16, 2019 9:12 am

Hi mrshh,

You will be pleased to know that I went ahead and hired a solicitor to appeal against it anyway even though they gave me no right of appeal and the Home Office immediately admitted that the online form is indeed misleading and agreed to reverse the decision before even going to court.

So yes you will 100% get the correct decision provided you stay the course.

It cost me around £500 to £600 to get my solicitor to send a Pre-Action Protocol to the Home Office and asking them to consider correction within 14 days or else see us in court. They answered within 10 days willing to correct their decision.

Now I am in the process of claiming compensation from the Home Office equal to how much it cost me to get them to reconsider. Keeping all receipts and proofs safe is important.

You only have 3 months from the date of decision to appeal, so make sure you know your timelines.

Good luck.

mrshh · Post by **mrshh** » Thu May 16, 2019 9:46 am

Hi Frz540,
I really appreciate that you took the time to respond (many others don't).

It is indeed a relief that the Home Office overturned the decision. I now can see which should be my next course of action. Hopefully the Home Office will amend the application form as soon as possible to prevent others form making the same mistake.

Could you please tell me how long did it take to get your new BRP and passport? I have to travel in 3 months and I am hoping that I will receive my documents back in time. My father-in-law has organised a family trip and has already paid for my ticket.

Frz540 · Post by **Frz540** » Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 am

Hi,

No problem, I'm glad to help.

And yes, very disappointed with the lack of responses here myself. Though can't complain, it's just a forum, so any replies we get is grace.

I never sent any original documents to the Home Office when asking them for reconsideration. They were all copied by my solicitor and sent with the Pre-Action Protocol, which is just summarizing your case, pointing out their mistake in the online form and how it mislead you, showing them new English Language Test, B1 in your case, and saying that you had no trouble passing the correct level of English if only the online form was clear in asking you to do so, and then threatening them with the second phase of the appeal, which is a formal appeal in the court, which apparently would cost them a lot more. And thats why they are quick to respond to you, when threatened, by a law firm.

You don't have to send any originals, if anything, perhaps the original B1 Certificate, but nothing else from the original application documentary evidence, this is not like re-applying, they just need to be shown evidence relating to this matter in particular, the English Question. Send them copies of their refusal letters, that shows your case ID or reference number, send them screenshots of the online question and how it misleads you, send them the original filled-in visa application print-out that you had sent with your original application and point-out where the english questions appear and how you answered, send them the checklist that it generated where there was no mention of any level of English in particular to guide you.

Especially the fact that nowhere while filling in the online form does it ever ask you to refer to the guidance notes. The online form is an interactive one, from the very beginning it takes it upon itself, by first asking questions about your situation and visa needs, and then morphing itself into presenting questions and asking for evidence only that are needed for you personally. And it fails to do that when it comes to the English question. It keeps guiding you all along, obtaining your complete trust and then suddenly asks for the wrong evidence and deceives you entirely, leaving your whole application poised for rejection.

Your solicitor needs to mention all these points to make the case for you.

And of course by saying send them I mean take all these to your solicitor, show him/her all these documents and say how you were mislead, the solicitor will then prepare the case, arrange all these documents and then write the Protocol him/herself with the appropriate wording explaining everything about the case to the Home Office and threatening with the next phase.

The solicitors will charge you but keep the receipts safe and you can later on complain to Home Office and ask for it back.I don't know if they will pay it back to you because mine is still in process, but I think they should because they have admitted their mistake and frankly we've already paid almost a £1000 for the application, why should we then also pay for their mistakes? If they don't pay I will seek to take it further somehow, so let's see.

When the Home Office replies within those 14 days in response to that Pre-Action Protocol they say we have decided to reconsider your case, they don't say specifically that they will change it at that time. But that just means they would. They give you 3 months to wait while they 'reconsider'.

I got my corrected decision letter after waiting for about 2 and a half months. This letter needs to be kept safe for your future applications, if any.

They said my current BRP, which I had kept with me, remains valid and does not need to be changed.

So you should be able to keep everything and even travel because you will not need to attend any interviews or hearings as such.

But do go over all this with your solicitor and see what they say.

All the best.

Frz540 · Post by **Frz540** » Thu May 16, 2019 10:44 am

It has to be an immigration solicitor.

At first they will be reluctant to take it on blaming you for submitting the wrong document, as happened with me. But a sane one will see it's the Home Office's mistake.

Tell them there have been other exact same cases where Home Office overturned their original decision.

Copy and print my posts above and take it with you for them to read through if you find it difficult to articulate your points to them. Even though they are solicitors don't think they know everything and are any good at looking at new cases analytically and objectively. Most of them just want nice, simple and repetitively clear-cut cases regarding visa issues to go about their business and make money.

You have to be confident that you have a case here, I had to partly convince him myself.

And you do have a case, don't doubt it. Absolutely.

seagul · Post by **seagul** » Thu May 16, 2019 6:39 pm

Frz540 wrote: ↑
Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 am
Hi,

No problem, I'm glad to help.

And yes, very disappointed with the lack of responses here myself. Though can't complain, it's just a forum, so any replies we get is grace.

I never sent any original documents to the Home Office when asking them for reconsideration. They were all copied by my solicitor and sent with the Pre-Action Protocol, which is just summarizing your case, pointing out their mistake in the online form and how it mislead you, showing them new English Language Test, B1 in your case, and saying that you had no trouble passing the correct level of English if only the online form was clear in asking you to do so, and then threatening them with the second phase of the appeal, which is a formal appeal in the court, which apparently would cost them a lot more. And thats why they are quick to respond to you, when threatened, by a law firm.

You don't have to send any originals, if anything, perhaps the original B1 Certificate, but nothing else from the original application documentary evidence, this is not like re-applying, they just need to be shown evidence relating to this matter in particular, the English Question. Send them copies of their refusal letters, that shows your case ID or reference number, send them screenshots of the online question and how it misleads you, send them the original filled-in visa application print-out that you had sent with your original application and point-out where the english questions appear and how you answered, send them the checklist that it generated where there was no mention of any level of English in particular to guide you.

Especially the fact that nowhere while filling in the online form does it ever ask you to refer to the guidance notes. The online form is an interactive one, from the very beginning it takes it upon itself, by first asking questions about your situation and visa needs, and then morphing itself into presenting questions and asking for evidence only that are needed for you personally. And it fails to do that when it comes to the English question. It keeps guiding you all along, obtaining your complete trust and then suddenly asks for the wrong evidence and deceives you entirely, leaving your whole application poised for rejection.

Your solicitor needs to mention all these points to make the case for you.

And of course by saying send them I mean take all these to your solicitor, show him/her all these documents and say how you were mislead, the solicitor will then prepare the case, arrange all these documents and then write the Protocol him/herself with the appropriate wording explaining everything about the case to the Home Office and threatening with the next phase.

The solicitors will charge you but keep the receipts safe and you can later on complain to Home Office and ask for it back.I don't know if they will pay it back to you because mine is still in process, but I think they should because they have admitted their mistake and frankly we've already paid almost a £1000 for the application, why should we then also pay for their mistakes? If they don't pay I will seek to take it further somehow, so let's see.

When the Home Office replies within those 14 days in response to that Pre-Action Protocol they say we have decided to reconsider your case, they don't say specifically that they will change it at that time. But that just means they would. They give you 3 months to wait while they 'reconsider'.

I got my corrected decision letter after waiting for about 2 and a half months. This letter needs to be kept safe for your future applications, if any.

They said my current BRP, which I had kept with me, remains valid and does not need to be changed.

So you should be able to keep everything and even travel because you will not need to attend any interviews or hearings as such.

But do go over all this with your solicitor and see what they say.

All the best.

Have you got BRP on 5 years of route? Haven't you passed yet A2/B1?

mrshh · Post by **mrshh** » Fri May 17, 2019 11:38 am

Thanks again for the detailed input. It has boosted my confidence to rightfully get my visa extension. I totally agree with you, we should not be paying for their mistakes.

All the points mentioned are very informative and I'm sure will be useful in building my case and many others.

I hope that the Home Office will refund all the extra fees you have incurred.

Cheers

Frz540 · Post by **Frz540** » Fri May 17, 2019 11:42 am

seagul wrote: ↑
Thu May 16, 2019 6:39 pm
Have you got BRP on 5 years of route? Haven't you passed yet A2/B1?

I was refused visa on 5 year route because of submitting A1 and instead was put on 10 year because of having a child.

But it was changed back to 5 year route after their correction and was told that BRP that was sent to me for the 10 year route would still be valid now and does not need to be changed.

I did pass A2 yes, on my own, immediately after the refusal. Only its copy was sent to them though, not the original. They never asked for any original documentation. They just accepted our argument right away and overturned the decision.

Frz540 · Post by **Frz540** » Fri May 17, 2019 11:54 am

mrshh wrote: ↑
Fri May 17, 2019 11:38 am
Thanks again for the detailed input. It has boosted my confidence to rightfully get my visa extension. I totally agree with you, we should not be paying for their mistakes.

All the points mentioned are very informative and I'm sure will be useful in building my case and many others.

I hope that the Home Office will refund all the extra fees you have incurred.

Cheers

All the best.

You can print out a paper version of the application form as well, and show it to your solicitor.

In it you will see clearly how incessantly they mention and highlight the change of rules in 2017 about A2, and give you many heads up about which document to submit, asking you to refer to guidance notes and ticking the correct box etc etc. None of that happens on the online form.

If the applicant is supposed to know, or find out and read guidance notes themselves, then why is there so much attention paid to remind the applicant of this in the paper form and not in the online form.

Basically they just failed to update their online form. But the paper form got clear and timely updates to it to help the applicants. If I had filled in the paper form I would never have made that mistake, nor you.

The online form doesn't miss it, or ignores it, or makes an honest mistake; it actually deceives you in submitting the wrong document with confidence. That's the problem.

mrshh · Post by **mrshh** » Fri May 17, 2019 12:35 pm

I can see that they have recently made some changes to the online form.
The "Which level of approved English Language test do I require"? part was definitely not there when I applied end of February 2019. Given that the rules have changed in 2017, it actually took them more than one year to make the changes on the online form.

mrshh · Post by **mrshh** » Fri May 17, 2019 12:41 pm

Frz540 · Post by **Frz540** » Fri May 17, 2019 3:59 pm

It seems they have finally changed it.

And that's great for your case, this proves the question in its earlier form was indeed poorly presented and misleading. So go ahead, print this screenshot out and then show the application you originally filled in and how the question was presented in it then that actually mislead you and it should be easy to get them to overturn it.

Do not delay, do this right away. On Monday walk straight into an immigration solicitor's office and ask them to give you 5 minutes to just look at these papers, then get a proper intial appointment with them, for which you will have to pay a little, maybe around £60, and get them to submit the Pre-Action Protocol for you, which should cost around £500.

Frz540 · Post by **Frz540** » Fri May 17, 2019 4:03 pm

Or if you are allowed to appeal, then go with that. I don't know how that works.

I wasn't even given a right of appeal, imagine that.

mrshh · Post by **mrshh** » Sun May 19, 2019 9:05 am

Yes, I have already appealed and previously sent the completed application form as evidence but now that they have changed the online form, I don’t think it is enough. The answered part still looks the same when I try to print the answers.
Luckily you saved a screenshot of the online application form before the change was made.
I will submit it as additional evidence and possibly involve an MP.
I have already complained to Home Office too.
As the IHS fees have doubled when I applied (paid £1000 instead of the previous £500), we find it too much to have to spend on solicitor fees now.
In my case, my visa extension was rejected and was not switched to the 10 yr route as we don’t have kids yet.

maemalidas · Post by **maemalidas** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:55 am

mrshh wrote: ↑
Sun May 19, 2019 9:05 am
Yes, I have already appealed and previously sent the completed application form as evidence but now that they have changed the online form, I don’t think it is enough. The answered part still looks the same when I try to print the answers.
Luckily you saved a screenshot of the online application form before the change was made.
I will submit it as additional evidence and possibly involve an MP.
I have already complained to Home Office too.
As the IHS fees have doubled when I applied (paid £1000 instead of the previous £500), we find it too much to have to spend on solicitor fees now.
In my case, my visa extension was rejected and was not switched to the 10 yr route as we don’t have kids yet.

how did you get on with your appeal if you don't mind me asking?

I'm in the same boat with my spouse's visa.

mrshh · Post by **mrshh** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:32 pm

Unfortunately, the appeal was not successful. I am currently trying to find another solution.
The notice of decision from the Tribunal says that the onus is on the applicant to show that he/she satisfies the relevant provisions of the Immigration Rules.

The judge has disregarded the fact that the application form was misleading.

Did you opt for paper hearing or oral hearing?

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

English Test Question in Online Form

English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form

Re: English Test Question in Online Form