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FXR_1340
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FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by FXR_1340 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:11 pm

My wife and I attended the Premium Centre at Glasgow today for FLR(M). The FLR(M) was refused.

The reason for refusal is due to my wife, on applying initially for the "Fiance" visa, in fact applied for a Visit visa for Marriage. Of course this cannot be extended in any way and thus we are now in a difficult position.

The staff at Glasgow were excellent. No complaints whatsoever. In fact I would commend them for their assistance and efforts to assist. Well Done UKVI at Festival Court Glasgow!

We are now in the position whereby the FLR(M) application has been withdrawn and we hope to receive back the fees we paid. We doubt that will be all of the fees paid but anything helps.

The UKVI Officer did suggest we could appeal however given the circumstances (incorrect visa applied for initially) there is precious little grounds for appeal. The Officer did say we could appeal on the grounds of Family Life however, if successful, we would be put on to the 10 Year Route. As we are both in our late fifties this is not an option from the point of view of finance. In addition, the appeal was likely to take months during which time my wife could not undertake employment.

We now find ourselves in a position whereby we must apply for a different visa.

As far as can be ascertained the visa we must now apply for is the Spouse Visa and the form to be used is VAF4UK accompanies by Annex 2. Is this correct?

The category will be Settlement. Is that correct?

Is anyone aware of the timeline from application to visa issue for a US citizen?

Grateful for any help with this.

Not a great day for us...........

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by Casa » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:28 pm

You are correct that your wife should now apply for a Spouse Settlement visa (VAF4a), however this application can only be submitted from outside of the UK.

A spouse visa application submitted in the US is likely to take up to 60 working days to process, assuming you meet all the conditions including the minimum income level of £18,600 p.a (by you as the sponsor). Without income you would need £62,500 in savings, held in an accessible account for at least 6 months. Savings can be joint. Earned income is for you alone.
(Casa, not CR001)
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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by CR001 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:32 pm

The reason for refusal is due to my wife, on applying initially for the "Fiance" visa, in fact applied for a Visit visa for Marriage. Of course this cannot be extended in any way and thus we are now in a difficult position.
What was the visa fee that you paid for this 'fiance/marriage' visa?

What exactly does her fiance/marriage visa say as 'visa type'??

You were advised by me in January last year what visa forms to apply for, link below to my post.

immigration-for-family-members/success- ... l#p1438090

And you even posted the HO link to the 'join family visa'.

immigration-for-family-members/success- ... l#p1439563

You also posted about the category of visa to select, link below. What did you select when you applied last year? Did you check the correct visa was issued before she traveled?

immigration-for-family-members/is-this- ... l#p1517344
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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by FXR_1340 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:56 pm

CR001 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:32 pm
The reason for refusal is due to my wife, on applying initially for the "Fiance" visa, in fact applied for a Visit visa for Marriage. Of course this cannot be extended in any way and thus we are now in a difficult position.
What was the visa fee that you paid for this 'fiance/marriage' visa?

What exactly does her fiance/marriage visa say as 'visa type'??

You were advised by me in January last year what visa forms to apply for, link below to my post.

immigration-for-family-members/success- ... l#p1438090

And you even posted the HO link to the 'join family visa'.

immigration-for-family-members/success- ... l#p1439563

You also posted about the category of visa to select, link below. What did you select when you applied last year? Did you check the correct visa was issued before she traveled?

immigration-for-family-members/is-this- ... l#p1517344
Thanks for your reply.

Yes you did advise and yes the information was taken on board. However when the applicant is not IT literate and not much good at forms that is where all the advice in the world becomes useless. The sum paid for the visa issued (a marriage visa) was a fraction of what a Fiance Visa costs. Why did this not ring alarm bells? Who knows......

Believe me, today is not a good day in our household!!!!!

Casa wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:28 pm
You are correct that your wife should now apply for a Spouse Settlement visa (VAF4a), however this application can only be submitted from outside of the UK.

A spouse visa application submitted in the US is likely to take up to 60 working days to process, assuming you meet all the conditions including the minimum income level of £18,600 p.a (by you as the sponsor). Without income you would need £62,500 in savings, held in an accessible account for at least 6 months. Savings can be joint. Earned income is for you alone.
Casa,

Thanks for your reply.

As far as I can ascertain, the VAF4a Form can only be completed online. Is this correct? What about the Annex 2 Form, is that an online form too?

When we spoke with the very helpful UKVI Officer he said it was possible to do the online bit when not in USA. Who would know?!? In an effort to ensure there are no further problems I have utilised a VPN which (hopefully) will address the issue of location.

We (I!) are/am still stunned at todays events and trying to refocus on what needs to be done. The galling thing here is the paperwork was all in order. Its like a kick in the stomach. However lessons will be learned.

Thanks for the input.

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by CR001 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:20 pm

As far as I can ascertain, the VAF4a Form can only be completed online. Is this correct? What about the Annex 2 Form, is that an online form too?
VAF4A is online only. Appendix 2 is a paper form.
We (I!) are/am still stunned at todays events and trying to refocus on what needs to be done. The galling thing here is the paperwork was all in order. Its like a kick in the stomach. However lessons will be learned.
I strongly suggest you revisit your original lengthy topic and read it all again, make notes of key information, let her go home to the US and apply again.
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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by Obie » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:33 pm

if you have proof that fiance visa was applied for, but you were given family visitor visa, then that is wrong, and it may influence a human right claim.
What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by CR001 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:16 am

Obie wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:33 pm
if you have proof that fiance visa was applied for, but you were given family visitor visa, then that is wrong, and it may influence a human right claim.
OP paid for and applied for the marriage visit visa.
FXR_1340 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:56 pm
Yes you did advise and yes the information was taken on board. However when the applicant is not IT literate and not much good at forms that is where all the advice in the world becomes useless. The sum paid for the visa issued (a marriage visa) was a fraction of what a Fiance Visa costs. Why did this not ring alarm bells? Who knows......
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by FXR_1340 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:41 pm

Thank you all for your latest round of support, advice and guidance. We are still licking our wounds today.

We have begun to look at VAF4a and Appendix 2 to see what is involved.

At first glance it is clear the process involves completing a hardcopy Appendix 2 and the VAF4a form is an online only process (unless its being filled in N Korea)

The question we have is, once completed, does the online VAF4a require to be printed along with the completed Appendix 2 and the supporting docs, and everything sent to Sheffield? Is there a documents check list within the online form listing which supporting docs are to be sent?

The guide notes mentions a return post label. We had trouble with this previously and would like to know how this return label is purchased?

Grateful for your continuing help.

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by CR001 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:58 pm

The online process will tell you what is required to submit in the US and where supporting documents need to go.
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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by FXR_1340 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:05 pm

CR001 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:58 pm
The online process will tell you what is required to submit in the US and where supporting documents need to go.
Thank you.

Is there a "Premium Service" available for these applications?

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by CR001 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:08 pm

No there is no premium service/same day decision for applications from abroad.
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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by FXR_1340 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:54 pm

CR001 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:08 pm
No there is no premium service/same day decision for applications from abroad.
Thank you again for your help.

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by FXR_1340 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:52 pm

Apologies in advance for this rather long post.

We are now working our way through the VAF4a Online Form. Its less than clear......

In the section called Family Details, the top of the page says Spouse/Sponsor. It continues and asks

Marital Status,
Will your spouse be travelling with you?,
Current Passport Number? - Is this the passport of the Spouse/Partner? I am assuming it is Am I correct to make that assumption?,
Nationality? The Spouse?,
Family Name/Surname? The Spouse?
Date of Birth The Spouse?

I think it is the Spouse details which are required to answer these questions.

The next bit is where it is also less than clear.

It is headed as Father and asks

Nationality
Surname and Given Name
Date of Birth
Place of Birth

The same questions are listed under the heading of Mother.

The form then asks questions about if there are any Dependent chidren and whether they are travelling.

What I need to be sure of is which Father and Mother is being refferred to here. Is it the Applicant os is it the Spouse?

I have searched the internet and found Guidance Notes for the VAF Forms dated April 2014. They do not follow the same lay out as the online form ie on the Guidance Notes a heading of 1.4 Sex however the online form does not ask the question in that order. The question of Gender does not appear online until the next page which equates to 1.7.

This is a mine field and we will be grateful for responses to the questions posed above.

Thanks for all help offered.

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by FXR_1340 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:34 pm

FXR_1340 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:52 pm
Apologies in advance for this rather long post.

We are now working our way through the VAF4a Online Form. Its less than clear......

In the section called Family Details, the top of the page says Spouse/Sponsor. It continues and asks

Marital Status,
Will your spouse be travelling with you?,
Current Passport Number? - Is this the passport of the Spouse/Partner? I am assuming it is Am I correct to make that assumption?,
Nationality? The Spouse?,
Family Name/Surname? The Spouse?
Date of Birth The Spouse?

I think it is the Spouse details which are required to answer these questions.

The next bit is where it is also less than clear.

It is headed as Father and asks

Nationality
Surname and Given Name
Date of Birth
Place of Birth

The same questions are listed under the heading of Mother.

The form then asks questions about if there are any Dependent chidren and whether they are travelling.

What I need to be sure of is which Father and Mother is being refferred to here. Is it the Applicant os is it the Spouse?

I have searched the internet and found Guidance Notes for the VAF Forms dated April 2014. They do not follow the same lay out as the online form ie on the Guidance Notes a heading of 1.4 Sex however the online form does not ask the question in that order. The question of Gender does not appear online until the next page which equates to 1.7.

This is a mine field and we will be grateful for responses to the questions posed above.

Thanks for all help offered.
Can anyone assist with my questions?

Thanks in advance

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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by FXR_1340 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:02 am

FXR_1340 wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:34 pm
FXR_1340 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:52 pm
Apologies in advance for this rather long post.

We are now working our way through the VAF4a Online Form. Its less than clear......

In the section called Family Details, the top of the page says Spouse/Sponsor. It continues and asks

Marital Status,
Will your spouse be travelling with you?,
Current Passport Number? - Is this the passport of the Spouse/Partner? I am assuming it is Am I correct to make that assumption?,
Nationality? The Spouse?,
Family Name/Surname? The Spouse?
Date of Birth The Spouse?

I think it is the Spouse details which are required to answer these questions.

The next bit is where it is also less than clear.

It is headed as Father and asks

Nationality
Surname and Given Name
Date of Birth
Place of Birth

The same questions are listed under the heading of Mother.

The form then asks questions about if there are any Dependent chidren and whether they are travelling.

What I need to be sure of is which Father and Mother is being refferred to here. Is it the Applicant os is it the Spouse?

I have searched the internet and found Guidance Notes for the VAF Forms dated April 2014. They do not follow the same lay out as the online form ie on the Guidance Notes a heading of 1.4 Sex however the online form does not ask the question in that order. The question of Gender does not appear online until the next page which equates to 1.7.

This is a mine field and we will be grateful for responses to the questions posed above.

Thanks for all help offered.
Can anyone assist with my questions?

Thanks in advance
I guess the answer to our question isnt available here.

Thanks anyway.

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Immigration Document Checking Service

Post by FXR_1340 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:45 pm

After a former error in paperwork, we would like to have our Spouse Settlement Visa application checked.

Is there such a service out there and, if so, how/where can it be contacted?

I have tried council offices locally neither of which provide this service any more. They only check Naturalisation papers.

Grateful for any help with this.

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Re: Immigration Document Checking Service

Post by CR001 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 pm

The Settlement Checking Service is only available for ILR on Set(M). It is not available for applications from outside the UK.
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Re: FLR(M) Refused due to Wrong "Fiance" Visa HELP!

Post by metanoia » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:59 pm

FXR_1340 wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:34 pm
FXR_1340 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:52 pm
Apologies in advance for this rather long post.

We are now working our way through the VAF4a Online Form. Its less than clear......

In the section called Family Details, the top of the page says Spouse/Sponsor. It continues and asks

Marital Status,
Will your spouse be travelling with you?,
Current Passport Number? - Is this the passport of the Spouse/Partner? I am assuming it is Am I correct to make that assumption?,
Nationality? The Spouse?,
Family Name/Surname? The Spouse?
Date of Birth The Spouse?

I think it is the Spouse details which are required to answer these questions.
Correct, here you'll have to add your details as sponsor.

The next bit is where it is also less than clear.

It is headed as Father and asks

Nationality
Surname and Given Name
Date of Birth
Place of Birth

The same questions are listed under the heading of Mother.

The form then asks questions about if there are any Dependent chidren and whether they are travelling.
It depends if your wife have any kids and you would like to apply for them

What I need to be sure of is which Father and Mother is being refferred to here. Is it the Applicant os is it the Spouse?
Applicant's parents details

I have searched the internet and found Guidance Notes for the VAF Forms dated April 2014. They do not follow the same lay out as the online form ie on the Guidance Notes a heading of 1.4 Sex however the online form does not ask the question in that order. The question of Gender does not appear online until the next page which equates to 1.7.

This is a mine field and we will be grateful for responses to the questions posed above.

Thanks for all help offered.
Can anyone assist with my questions?

Thanks in advance
Its difficult for moderators to answer these questions since they don't have access to online form.
Biometrics Karachi 04/08/17
Decision received 11/10 (Visa refused on subsisting relationship)
Acknowledgment 18/12/17
Deadline 02/04/18
Decision withdrawn 26/02/18
Decision overturned 29/03/18
PP submitted 3/4/18
Visa granted 9/4/18

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Re: Immigration Document Checking Service

Post by FXR_1340 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:23 am

CR001 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 pm
The Settlement Checking Service is only available for ILR on Set(M). It is not available for applications from outside the UK.
Thanks for your reply.

This is a stupid situation. I have spent the last few days looking for answers and I have yet to find anything of substance. Moreover, the answers I found just are not good enough.

For example, as well as the "guidance" not matching ip with the online form, The only help like I found took me to a page which no longer existed.

I am surprised no 0ne has taken the govt to task over this. Submitting an application which is then rejected and the visa fees lost due to wrongly completed forms could be appealed simply on the grounds of poor support from the govt.

If I was younger and had time on my hands it would be a very entertaining pasttime. Watching the govt squirm is always joyous. The forms seem to be dated April 2014. I wonder if the current PM was the Home Sec in April 14?

How embarassing that would be.......

.....just checked. It was TM.......

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Re: Immigration Document Checking Service

Post by FXR_1340 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:25 am

Sorry...duplicate post

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