Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

Yes exactly. This is what I discussed with my friend.

Evidence of all work-related absences (including paid annual leave)
can be interpreted as

"work-related absence from country "

So, for example, you were in Pak/Ind for 5 months project and you took 2 weeks holiday so you should report that and also your employer in their letter.

Like:

Mr. X was out of country for 5 months and while there s/he took a 2 weeks holiday.

The above scenario holds true as they can track our in/out from UK but they CAN'T track if we were on holidays during our stay outside the UK.

I know it is confusing but I am still not convinced it is to do with our personal holidays.

AloofStar wrote:may be with those confusing words, UKBA is trying to ask the record of paid annual leave in a scenario:
if someone was assigned outside the UK for some time and he/she took personal holidays during that assignment in that country?

This new policy just makes zero sense. For example:

-Someone who is self-employed only needs to provide a personal letter. Why are salaried people penalized compared to the SE?

-It's my understanding that if someone is not working, and takes a short break abroad (eg between 2 jobs), again they only need to show a personal letter. Although it's not very clear to me if such breaks, in UKBA's view, are not allowed, unless for compassionate reasons? But then this is an unfair discrimination which does not apply to any other visa category (even Tier 2 are allowed 60 day break between employment when they can be abroad without any employment letter).

-This change was applied retrospectively. On the other hand, Tier 2 holders knew from the very beginning such letters were required and therefore acted strategically.

-Fundamentally, I am not sure what UKBA is trying to achieve here, other than make our lives as miserable as possible. Surely not having a letter for, say, a 10 day vacation abroad is not a criminal offense? If their goal is to grant ILR based on fulfilling residency requirement (eg, no more than a certain number of absences over 5 years), surely 180 day threshold over 5 years before ILR application served the purpose well? Why introduce a completely illogical demand to produce letters for absences in a visa category which from the very beginning was understood to give the applicants certain freedoms to work when and for whom they wanted?

I can go on, but it's fairly clear that the policy is ill-thought and unfair. If they are going to reject any Tier 1 holders based on the strict application of the rules, I expect successful challenges in court.

AloofStar wrote:may be with those confusing words, UKBA is trying to ask the record of paid annual leave in a scenario:
if someone was assigned outside the UK for some time and he/she took personal holidays during that assignment in that country?

Well, in a new rule, they allow up to 180 days of absences per year abroad, as long as the absences can be backed up with an employment letter. The applicant can simply show a letter from their employer, if he can get one (it doesn't matter if they took any absences while there or not).

I support all your arguments but I think the reasons I have stated in my previous post, the policy seems fine.

They are trying to track out of UK holidays DURING your work-related leaves so that they can add it to the ILR absence period.

ukswus wrote:This new policy just makes zero sense. For example:

-Someone who is self-employed only needs to provide a personal letter. Why are salaried people penalized compared to the SE?

-It's my understanding that if someone is not working, and takes a short break abroad (eg between 2 jobs), again they only need to show a personal letter. Although it's not very clear to me if such breaks, in UKBA's view, are not allowed, unless for compassionate reasons? But then this is an unfair discrimination which does not apply to any other visa category (even Tier 2 are allowed 60 day break between employment when they can be abroad without any employment letter).

-This change was applied retrospectively. On the other hand, Tier 2 holders knew from the very beginning such letters were required and therefore acted strategically.

-Fundamentally, I am not sure what UKBA is trying to achieve here, other than make our lives as miserable as possible. Surely not having a letter for, say, a 10 day vacation abroad is not a criminal offense? If their goal is to grant ILR based on fulfilling residency requirement (eg, no more than a certain number of absences over 5 years), surely 180 day threshold over 5 years before ILR application served the purpose well? Why introduce a completely illogical demand to produce letters for absences in a visa category which from the very beginning was understood to give the applicants certain freedoms to work when and for whom they wanted?

I can go on, but it's fairly clear that the policy is ill-thought and unfair. If they are going to reject any Tier 1 holders based on the strict application of the rules, I expect successful challenges in court.

intelinside wrote:I support all your arguments but I think the reasons I have stated in my previous post, the policy seems fine.

They are trying to track out of UK holidays DURING your work-related leaves so that they can add it to the ILR absence period.

This seems to be a rather convoluted way to address a rather implausible problem. Sorry, I wish you were right, but I don't think this is the case here.

intelinside wrote:I support all your arguments but I think the reasons I have stated in my previous post, the policy seems fine.

They are trying to track out of UK holidays DURING your work-related leaves so that they can add it to the ILR absence period.

Thats my optimistic understanding as well. I am also trying to make some sense out of this weird rule. But you can expect anything from UKBA!

ukswus wrote:

intelinside wrote:I support all your arguments but I think the reasons I have stated in my previous post, the policy seems fine.

They are trying to track out of UK holidays DURING your work-related leaves so that they can add it to the ILR absence period.

This seems to be a rather convoluted way to address a rather implausible problem. Sorry, I wish you were right, but I don't think this is the case here.

Probably you are right and given the senseless increase in Fees, we can expect anything from UKBA.

But still If I have taken holidays, how can my employer know whether I was in UK or outside UK UNLESS they send me on some business trip !

I took 3 weeks holidays in Dec, for 1 week I was in UK and for 2 weeks I was in my home country.

What would my employer state in their letter? This doesn't make any sense at all !

If it makes sense to UKBA, no wonder they were dismembered as they were(are) highly inefficient in their work !

intelinside wrote:Did you ask about the work related or personal holidays?

I don't think any paid leave comes under 'work-related' absences comment that they have given in the SET (o) form.

But I guess you were right in cancelling your appointment as it is confusing statement.

apahuja wrote:

apahuja wrote:

intelinside wrote:Sections 6.2, 6.3 from:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... o04091.pdf



You ONLY need to provide letter from employer if you were sent by your company in their office outside UK for days/weeks.

In other words, you were required by your company to go outside UK and perform your job.

If this is the case, then your employer should provide you this letter. This is a good template to follow:

www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=52143

If you were on holidays for your own personal reasons, you DO NOT have to provide this absence letter.

Thanks . I also think this should be the rule as sometimes employer do not know where we spent holidays uk/outside UK. Can I ask if you/anyonce has confirmed about this rule with UKBA by calling on their helpline number. I am trying to get the confirmation on this rule from them as have appointment on 10th . Otherwise I would have to cancel as surely cannot get letters from employer for persial vacation so soon.

So.. I called UKBA helpine and they told me that as far as the leave was paid (by any employer) , no matter whether you were in UK or outside, you ahve to show the evidence letter from that employer only . Though I mentioned that can show bank statement , payslips for leave period but she mentioned it has to be the letter from employer otherwise you are not going with enough documents and I cannot guarantee as you are not taking documents mentioned in the set(0) form. I am not sure how I can arrange letter from employer for whom I worked 4 years back as they are not responding. I have decided to cancel my appointment on 10th.

When I asked her what you mean by work related absence - she mentioned any paid leave whcih you took when you were employed is Work related absence. She emphasized again and again on - ANY paid leave when you were employed then provide employer letter for each period (even for one day) . Can someone confirm calling UKBA again (just to make sure the lady with who I had conversation was correct and knew rules properly)?

Achtung wrote:Wow! speechless
thanks apahuja for the update, so just to be clear what you just said.

We need to provide letter from all (past + present) employers detailing all the leaves (paid + unpaid), including annual leaves for the last 5 years.
And also list down the business trips we had been to for the last 5 years.

This going to be hard one...anyone else planning to apply soon?

Thats correct as per my converstaion with UKBA. She mentioned you need to provide exactly the prrofs mentioned in Set(O) form for such absences and set(O) form clearly mentioned letter from employer for any paid leave so you need those letters from employer. I would still appreciate if someone can confirm this with UKBA please. I was on phone line for atleast 30 minutes today with her clearing many doubts.

I think this question was posted earlier as well.

If someone left the UK on Friday evening and returned on Sunday evening. In this case, it would be interesting to know what kind of evidence UKBA would like to see. No employer would confirm this absence.

Or UKBA wont ask us for provide evidence this short absence - as it is neither annual leave nor work related visit?

intelinside wrote:
Probably you are right and given the senseless increase in Fees, we can expect anything from UKBA.

But still If I have taken holidays, how can my employer know whether I was in UK or outside UK UNLESS they send me on some business trip !

I took 3 weeks holidays in Dec, for 1 week I was in UK and for 2 weeks I was in my home country.

What would my employer state in their letter? This doesn't make any sense at all !

If it makes sense to UKBA, no wonder they were dismembered as they were(are) highly inefficient in their work !

I have one question here.. I am about apply ILR end of this month.
Since last 5 years I have changed like 8 jobs. All my jobs in my contract letters states I have entailed to paid leave like 25days/year.

Is this proof not sufficient? I went to India, USA or hell with my paid leave for 5 10 2weeks what ever and it states in contract. And I have Passport stamps, flight ticket emails.

cruzez wrote:I have one question here.. I am about apply ILR end of this month.
Since last 5 years I have changed like 8 jobs. All my jobs in my contract letters states I have entailed to paid leave like 25days/year.

Is this proof not sufficient? I went to India, USA or hell with my paid leave for 5 10 2weeks what ever and it states in contract. And I have Passport stamps, flight ticket emails.

Least you can do is get letters from your employer stating that you were on paid/unpaid leave. Your employer can never be sure if you were out of the country unless you were on a business trip.
In addition to the above letter, you can provide a personal letter mentioning the dates you were away from the UK.
UKBA is gone mental by mixing T2 with T1.

cruzez wrote:I have one question here.. I am about apply ILR end of this month.
Since last 5 years I have changed like 8 jobs. All my jobs in my contract letters states I have entailed to paid leave like 25days/year.

Is this proof not sufficient? I went to India, USA or hell with my paid leave for 5 10 2weeks what ever and it states in contract. And I have Passport stamps, flight ticket emails.

I also mentioned her that I can even show boarding passes , passport stamps bank statement , payslips that I was paid and letter from employer stating total number of annual leaves entitled . Also I mentioned that my previous employer is not responding to my emails /phone calls so how can I get letters from them. Only one answer: you need to provide evidence as mentioned in the form and according to form its: letter from employer when employed so You have to get it otherwise bring all other proofs at your own risk at teh tiem of application.

When I asked why 5 years period paid leaves letter as employers even do not keep the records of annual leaves so she mentioned if you have no letter from employer than you are not providing enough evidence , come at your risk and RULES can change anytime even for tier1 general so you cannot say why you need 5 year absence letter FROM EMPLOYER. I was very frustated and angry so cancelled my appointment.

apahuja wrote: When I asked why 5 years period paid leaves letter as employers even do not keep the records of annual leaves so she mentioned if you have no letter from employer than you are not providing enough evidence , come at your risk and RULES can change anytime even for tier1 general so you cannot say why you need 5 year absence letter FROM EMPLOYER.

They are becoming plain nasty.

I wonder if UKBA would keep record of their employees absences for 5 years, why do they ask such impractical and stupid information, which will not prove or disprove anything.
What do they trying to evidence by asking for proof of work related absences from a working employee, while they have been employed and paid.
I simply dont get the necessasity and idea for this requirement.
What are they trying to find out by, if someone is out of country on Annual Leave for 20 days for five years, what is wrong in that? How can an evidence from an employer strengthen an application to prove what????
why is this evidence required in first place?? what is the theory behind this??

This is a bit of a palava!

I worked for an umbrella company and that employer stated that they would not confirm my absences from work, nor would they be able to confirm what those absences were for! They would only confirm my employment!

My appointment is this Thursday and I have no idea what to do.

All I have from my employers is a statement of employment stating I accrued annual leave and my work contracts indicating my annual leave entitlement.
I don't even have all my payslips for past five years, as did not think these were necessary!

Wildjoecrazy wrote:I don't even have all my payslips for past five years, as did not think these were necessary!

Wait - is this now a requirement?

Wildjoecrazy wrote:This is a bit of a palava!

I worked for an umbrella company and that employer stated that they would not confirm my absences from work, nor would they be able to confirm what those absences were for! They would only confirm my employment!

My appointment is this Thursday and I have no idea what to do.

All I have from my employers is a statement of employment stating I accrued annual leave and my work contracts indicating my annual leave entitlement.
I don't even have all my payslips for past five years, as did not think these were necessary!

Your employer is right in saying that they can't confirm whatever you did or wherever you were during your time off. It's got nothing to do with them. The only way they could confirm it if either those were work related absence (like when they send you abroad to work for them) or if they owned a plane that flew you out of the country and a person kept an eye on you to make sure you are having fun on your holidays.

Just go in with a personal letter explaining your situation and if they insist, ask them if their employers know what they do or wherever they go over the weekend or when they have their holidays.

It's a pathetic requirement. Just do your best with it.

Katwm6

No payslips are not a requirement, but they can demonstrate that annual leave was paid out to you. I'm going to have to go the employment contract route and personal letter and hope for the best.

I am going to try to call the UKBA helpline tomorrow. I am also trying to contact some solicitors to see if they can help. I will keep you guys posted.

All the best Wildjoecrazy. I think this requirement is bizarre to say the least. So a personal letter is the best that can be done.

I have two more questions, in 2010 I worked for a company for about 4 months and I resigned after 4 months because got better job else where.

During this time I went to India for 2 weeks, about 4 days over my acquired holidays as a result they deducted from my pay on last salary as over paid holidays.

My question will it effect my visa? Technically I took unpaid leaves and company was not happy I stayed a bit longer on my holidays.


Question2: With another company I was sort of my own boss could take holidays anytime and I simply send email to my boss I am taking few days off and I took 2 weeks off with no record of taken holidays, it never went to HR and I never used Payroll system. It was just verbally confirmed. How do I provide evidence here? HR don't have any record and my passport has stamps.

(c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant's basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.
245AAA

I am interpreting the above rule that people who were under the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme are exempt from this. For example, many people would have a combination of HSMP visa and Tier 1 General. Therefore, would it be possible to assume that evidence for work related absences or paid annual leave only have to be in relation to the period spent as Tier 1 General?

Wildjoecrazy wrote:Katwm6

No payslips are not a requirement, but they can demonstrate that annual leave was paid out to you. I'm going to have to go the employment contract route and personal letter and hope for the best.

Hi Wildjoecrazy,

Please keep this forum and thread updated with your application status and experience at PEO . What was the reaction of caseworker when you provide other available proofs for your absences and not employer letter. I will wait for your reply.

Good luck , hope you get ILR success.

We should all email HO asking the details of the new requirement.

If it is NOT work related, how can the employer confirm where you went for your personal holiday?