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ILR for children born in UK

Please use this section of the board for queries about Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). However please use the EEA-route section for queries about the EEA-route equivalent of Permanent Residence (PR).


This section is relevant irrespective of whether current status is Tiered or Non-Tiered.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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raviskar
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ILR for children born in UK

Post by raviskar » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:46 am

Hi,

Both myself and my wife has ILR (from March 2013) and the same is the case for our first child. We have got out second child born in July 2014. We do not plan to get British citizenship for any of us, as we are planning to return back to India in next couple of years.

So, I have applied Indian passport for our second child, and am planning to apply ILR for him. But I am confused on whether I can apply ILR for him or not.

One of my friends who was in the similar situation has successfully received ILR for his new born.

But when I called HomeOffice today, they were not sure which application I need to make for my second child. They have told me that one of their higher officials will call me to clarify:-)

Also, when I look at some of the threads like http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 19338.html, it looks like HomeOffice can refuse ILR on the ground that the child is a British citizen by birth (the child is born in UK and both the parents has ILR).

Anyone knows what are the exact rules around this?

I also see that we can go through the route of "certificate of entitlement" attached to the child's Indian passport? Would it be considered as a valid document in non-UK airports?

We are planning a India trip in Dec 1st week. Any help on this topic would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Ravishankar.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 30432
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by vinny » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:41 am

A British citizen has the Right of Abode and cannot be subject to grants of leave (46).
AB (British citizenship: deprivation; Deliallisi considered) Nigeria [2016] UKUT 451 (IAC) wrote:(3) A person who had indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom, immediately before acquiring British citizenship, does not thereby become entitled to indefinite leave to remain, upon being deprived of such citizenship under section 40 of the 1981 Act. Leave to remain is effectively extinguished by becoming a British citizen, since the system of controls under the Immigration Act 1971 does not apply to British citizens.
Visit guidance > People who are British citizens or who have the right of abode.

For a British citizen without a British passport, a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode endorsement in an unexpired non-British passport would be appropriate and valid for travel to the UK.

See also Are you a minor, Indian by descent and also foreign citizen?
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

ouflak1
Senior Member
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Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:59 am

Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by ouflak1 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:45 am

raviskar wrote:Hi,

Both myself and my wife has ILR (from March 2013) and the same is the case for our first child. We have got out second child born in July 2014. We do not plan to get British citizenship for any of us, as we are planning to return back to India in next couple of years.

So, I have applied Indian passport for our second child, and am planning to apply ILR for him. But I am confused on whether I can apply ILR for him or not.

One of my friends who was in the similar situation has successfully received ILR for his new born.

But when I called HomeOffice today, they were not sure which application I need to make for my second child. They have told me that one of their higher officials will call me to clarify:-)

Also, when I look at some of the threads like http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 19338.html, it looks like HomeOffice can refuse ILR on the ground that the child is a British citizen by birth (the child is born in UK and both the parents has ILR).

Anyone knows what are the exact rules around this?

I also see that we can go through the route of "certificate of entitlement" attached to the child's Indian passport? Would it be considered as a valid document in non-UK airports?

We are planning a India trip in Dec 1st week. Any help on this topic would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Ravishankar.
The reason for the confusion is that people often assume that one country's citizenship has anything to do with any other country's citizenship. This is particularly confusing for those from countries that themselves don't normally allow dual/multiple citizenship. To be blunt, what India thinks about the child's citizenship only matters to India. India is a separate sovereign nation and its own laws apply only to itself. The UK is likewise a separate sovereign nation whose citizenship they can bestow as they wish.

In the eyes of the UK, the child was born British and that is the end of the matter.

In the eyes of India, as long as you (the parents) or the child never actually make any claim to, or any way make use of, any other nation's citizenship, no matter what nation that is, then the child has the right claim citizenship of India

Any application for a UK 'visa' for a UK citizen will automatically be declined for that reason.

You can apply for Right of Abode for the child, and I think this is alright in the eyes of India.

raviskar
Newly Registered
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:17 am

Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by raviskar » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:24 pm

Hi Vinny and ouflak1,

Thanks for your response, much appreciated.

Do you know if the 'certificate of entitlement' attached to the Indian passport is considered as a valid travel document in non-UK airports (especially in India)?

Also, the UKVI link 'https://www.gov.uk/right-of-abode/apply ... ntitlement', says that the decision can take upto 6 months. Is there are any fast decision process like in-person appointment?

If I am allowed, I would prefer to apply for ILR itself, as it will be consistent with my other family members status in UK. Is it sure that they will reject the ILR application or is it a grey area and depends on the visa officer at the ILR premium appointment? Also, if they reject the ILR application on this basis, will they refund the ILR fees paid?

Thanks,
Ravi.

vinny
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by vinny » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:42 am

If they are competent, then they should reject an ILR application from a British citizen.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

ouflak1
Senior Member
Posts: 950
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:59 am

Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by ouflak1 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:30 am

raviskar wrote: Do you know if the 'certificate of entitlement' attached to the Indian passport is considered as a valid travel document in non-UK airports (especially in India)?
This is strictly a UK entitlement. Other countries have their own arrangements for such things and will not necessarily know or care about the UK's particular travel allowances.
raviskar wrote: Also, the UKVI link 'https://www.gov.uk/right-of-abode/apply ... ntitlement', says that the decision can take up to 6 months. Is there are any fast decision process like in-person appointment?


There are posts on this forum from people having it take this long and much longer. I don't want to be downer, but plan for the long wait and you probably won't be disappointed. It can be quick though. There's no way to tell for sure, and there is no expedited service that I'm aware of.
raviskar wrote:If I am allowed, I would prefer to apply for ILR itself, as it will be consistent with my other family members status in UK. Is it sure that they will reject the ILR application or is it a grey area and depends on the visa officer at the ILR premium appointment? Also, if they reject the ILR application on this basis, will they refund the ILR fees paid?
Any UK citizen attempting to apply for a UK visa (including ILR) will automatically be rejected do to obviousness and common sense. And as a British citizen, the child's status is already 'inconsistent' with the rest of the family.

I know it seems you are in a strange dichotomy here, and frankly you are. This is just part of the awkward result that every nation's citizenship is entirely its own to bestow or withdraw, and India doesn't allow for dual/multiple citizenship. You might consider looking into the OCI route for the child. Although I don't really see the timelines being much shorter, that route is a bit more well defined as far as 'status' is concerned.

raviskar
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:17 am

Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by raviskar » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:20 am

I am glad to tell that the ILR application for our child was successful today. I was receiving contradicting answers from Home office whenever I contacted them earlier. First time they were not sure, second time they told that I can apply for ILR, third time they told me through email that I need to apply for certificate of entitlement.

This looks like a very vague area, from my experience it looks like if we push for some other country nationality, we can apply for ILR eventhough the child is a British citizen by birth in UK. Also I think if the parents have received ILR through Tier1 path, they can apply ILR for children born in UK. They asked particularly about my Tier1 path today and also when I called them. I guess Tier1 ILR might be a different category in their evaluation.

vinny
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Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by vinny » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:55 am

They have made a mistake.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Obie
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Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by Obie » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:03 am

I wonder if that ILR is valid. Something not issued in accordance with the law is ultra vires.

Certificate of Entilement would have been appropriate.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

vinny
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Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by vinny » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:28 am

On its own, it's unlikely that anyone will notice the error.

Unfortunately, it would be of no use at all, if the child wishes to assert British citizenship in the future. It may possibly even be detrimental, if everyone forgets, or loses evidence, that the child was born after a parent was granted ILR.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

ouflak1
Senior Member
Posts: 950
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:59 am

Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by ouflak1 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:06 am

raviskar wrote:I am glad to tell that the ILR application for our child was successful today.
A blundering mistake on their part. Maybe they were just happy to take your money? They do seem to have acquired some avarice over the last few years.
raviskar wrote:I was receiving contradicting answers from Home office whenever I contacted them earlier.
Typical and similar to my own initial experience with them many years ago.
raviskar wrote:First time they were not sure...
Typical.
raviskar wrote:...second time they told that I can apply for ILR
Outright wrong.
raviskar wrote:..third time they told me through email that I need to apply for certificate of entitlement.
The correct advice finally. Third time's a charm. :roll:
raviskar wrote:This looks like a very vague area,
I assure you it is not vague at all. A British citizen does not need a visa of any kind, and certainly not ILR! This is just plain common sense.
raviskar wrote:...from my experience it looks like if we push for some other country nationality,


You cannot 'push' for some other country's nationality. Either that country grants it automatically, or by whatever formal process they allow, or they do not. Further, you cannot renunciate the child's British citizenship.

Sorry, but you just wasted over 900 pounds on a meaningless document.

vinny
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Re: ILR for children born in UK

Post by vinny » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:08 am

Refund justified (4.8)?
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

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