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Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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polarcub
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Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:45 am

Hi

This post is for those who applied pre-pandemic and have been waiting an excess period of time in receiving a response on their citizenship application, and are looking at what options they have to bring a resolution to their application:
- What steps did you take to force the department to make a decision?
- Did you recently make a FOI request? (how long were you waiting)
- Have you hired a lawyer to to bring a Judicial Review against the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in order to compel the Department to make a decision in your case? (this is done by submitting a case before the High Courts)
- How much did that cost for you?

I will state that going via a TD will only get you a standard response from the minister. It's an option to try and cross out, but that doesn't force a decision.

Url for making an FOI: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Fre ... nformation

iamok
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Posts: 94
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Ireland

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by iamok » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:01 am

Waiting for 3 years now on processing of citizenship for my wife. We consulted a lawyer last year who sent a letter on our behalf which was responded to by the department just before the pandemic hit last year. The letter noted that the application was being prepared for submission to the minister, however, a few days later the whole country went into lockdown so we never heard back anything after that.

We inquired over email in October when restrictions were eased and we were told that the application was at an advanced stage and the department did not require any further documentation or information from us. The email noted that a decision will be communicated to us in due course which makes me think that the application is just awaiting final sign off.

While everyone may have different circumstances, I think we should all be a bit more patient and wait another 6 months (at least) until the COVID situation comes under control and normal processing resumes again. It seems like the department hasn't really started rolling out regular approvals and is currently working on drafting the affidavit process for individuals already approved so, until all that is clarified, we should try not to frustrate ourselves and see how things pan out before spending any money on lawyers.

I know that 3 years is a long time and it has been frustrating for us, however, I don't think that going to court or making a FOI request will make any difference at this stage. This is mainly because a lot of processing time has been lost due to the pandemic and the court case in 2019. In addition, the Minister of Justice has herself been sick since the start of the year. So the department will cite all these as reasons for delay. I am also not sure how quickly a high court case or application for FOI will be acted upon under the current circumstances.

Paddy1996
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Paddy1996 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:23 am

I have already don’t all those procedures like i got freedom on information I also went to a high court for a quick decision all the process tock me 6-7 month now the department have 8 weeks time from the court order to give me a decision on my case as I am already waiting 2 years and 11 months nearly 3 years so a decision will be to be made before 22 of February

polarcub
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:15 pm

How much did it cost you? and did you hire a lawyer to do it?

When did you get the FOI? and how long did it take?
Paddy1996 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:23 am
I have already don’t all those procedures like i got freedom on information I also went to a high court for a quick decision all the process tock me 6-7 month now the department have 8 weeks time from the court order to give me a decision on my case as I am already waiting 2 years and 11 months nearly 3 years so a decision will be to be made before 22 of February

Paddy1996
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Albania

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Paddy1996 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:23 pm

I actually payed 900€ for the lower couse I got the lower since I applied in February 2018 , 6-7 months ago I had to pay the court fees it was like 350€ only

johnpromise01
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by johnpromise01 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:46 pm

Paddy1996 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:23 pm
I actually payed 900€ for the lower couse I got the lower since I applied in February 2018 , 6-7 months ago I had to pay the court fees it was like 350€ only

Total waste of time and money. Doesn't worth it. I'd rather be patient until I receive decision. I can still enjoy life travel around with my stamp4 anyway. :D

Paddy1996
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Posts: 98
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Albania

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Paddy1996 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:59 pm

johnpromise01 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:46 pm
Paddy1996 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:23 pm
I actually payed 900€ for the lower couse I got the lower since I applied in February 2018 , 6-7 months ago I had to pay the court fees it was like 350€ only

Total waste of time and money. Doesn't worth it. I'd rather be patient until I receive decision. I can still enjoy life travel around with my stamp4 anyway. :D
Well eveyone it’s different I would better pay 10K and have my citizenship on my hand then going around borders with a visa all my life 😂😂

johnpromise01
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by johnpromise01 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:03 pm

Paddy1996 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:59 pm
johnpromise01 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:46 pm
Paddy1996 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:23 pm
I actually payed 900€ for the lower couse I got the lower since I applied in February 2018 , 6-7 months ago I had to pay the court fees it was like 350€ only

Total waste of time and money. Doesn't worth it. I'd rather be patient until I receive decision. I can still enjoy life travel around with my stamp4 anyway. :D
Well eveyone it’s different I would better pay 10K and have my citizenship on my hand then going around borders with a visa all my life 😂😂
I agree. Eveyone it’s different.

WaitingConfused
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by WaitingConfused » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:52 pm

I know people who can get citizenship in Germany in 6-9 months, as before the COVID.
Being a government/state means seriousness and responsibilities. Taking timely precautions rather than hiding behind excuses.
I don't understand why they can't easily double 60 employees in naturalization, or use technology more efficiently ently, or expedite background checks which takes several months or years at this day and age. If other countries do it, they can do too. This way, INIS also create extra workload for itself having to answer emails, queries, courts, and tarnishing image due to news in media etc.
Courts are there to overcome unreasonable delays or negligence. Use it.

polarcub
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:00 am

Please do not spam this post with your opinion on "what is worth someone's time". That's YOUR personal opinion and it isn't the subject of this forum nor to be debated here, please keep that to YOURSELF. You are spamming this forum for people looking for information.

This forum is for people to discuss the FOI and High Court options. That's it! Please keep it on point otherwise your profile will be reported. Thanks.
Last edited by polarcub on Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

polarcub
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:02 am

That is YOUR personal opinion, and not the subject of this forum. Also suspiciously sounds like something someone working for the INIS would say, as opposed to someone who is genuinely waiting an excessive period of time for a decision. If you having nothing pragmatic to add to the topic of this forum, please do not spam it.
johnpromise01 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:46 pm
Paddy1996 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:23 pm
I actually payed 900€ for the lower couse I got the lower since I applied in February 2018 , 6-7 months ago I had to pay the court fees it was like 350€ only

Total waste of time and money. Doesn't worth it. I'd rather be patient until I receive decision. I can still enjoy life travel around with my stamp4 anyway. :D

johnpromise01
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:39 am
Ireland

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by johnpromise01 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:34 am

polarcub wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:02 am
That is YOUR personal opinion, and not the subject of this forum. Also suspiciously sounds like something someone working for the INIS would say, as opposed to someone who is genuinely waiting an excessive period of time for a decision. If you having nothing pragmatic to add to the topic of this forum, please do not spam it.
johnpromise01 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:46 pm
Paddy1996 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:23 pm
I actually payed 900€ for the lower couse I got the lower since I applied in February 2018 , 6-7 months ago I had to pay the court fees it was like 350€ only

Total waste of time and money. Doesn't worth it. I'd rather be patient until I receive decision. I can still enjoy life travel around with my stamp4 anyway. :D
Take a chill pill. No one is stopping you from going to court. Go ahead and report my profile for an opinion :roll:

Stanina
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Ireland

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Stanina » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:02 am

There was good recommendation in one of the posts on forum. If you decide to go to High court after FOI, ask a lawyer to write a letter to INIS that you will initiate court action in 4 weeks in relation on citizenship decision. In some cases it might save you time and money.

Paddy1996
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Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:04 pm
Albania

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Paddy1996 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:30 am

Stanina wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:02 am
There was good recommendation in one of the posts on forum. If you decide to go to High court after FOI, ask a lawyer to write a letter to INIS that you will initiate court action in 4 weeks in relation on citizenship decision. In some cases it might save you time and money.
I did write to them before the high court and they didint really care they threatened me back as well saying that if I go to high court we will make sure you will pay everything to the high court in case if I luse

Vorona
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Posts: 447
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Vorona » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:33 pm

Paddy1996 wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:30 am
I did write to them before the high court and they didint really care they threatened me back as well saying that if I go to high court we will make sure you will pay everything to the high court in case if I luse
This is true unfortunately. They have their own lawyers and they can fight back and have done so in the past. If they win you will have to recover their costs which are not going to be small. I'd suggest going for judicial review only if you are absolutely confident.

Also you mentioned that they have twice conducted good character checks on you. You might want to request an official police certificate from Albania or any other country that you have lived in before and send it to them. There could be a little chance that this delay caused by Albanian side and lack of co-operation.

Paddy1996
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:04 pm
Albania

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Paddy1996 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:36 pm

Vorona wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:33 pm
Paddy1996 wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:30 am
I did write to them before the high court and they didint really care they threatened me back as well saying that if I go to high court we will make sure you will pay everything to the high court in case if I luse
This is true unfortunately. They have their own lawyers and they can fight back and have done so in the past. If they win you will have to recover their costs which are not going to be small. I'd suggest going for judicial review only if you are absolutely confident.

Also you mentioned that they have twice conducted good character checks on you. You might want to request an official police certificate from Albania or any other country that you have lived in before and send it to them. There could be a little chance that this delay caused by Albanian side and lack of co-operation.
Well I won’t be able to get nothing from my country as I have been granted with a refugee status in Ireland that mean they can’t ask me noting in relation Albanian as they have no rights as I do not be able to get anything from my own country I am not even able to go back to home since 7 years

polarcub
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:57 pm

Oh wow. That's good to know. Does anyone know someone who has lost and had to pay the cost? I want to understand what the total risk is with that option.
Paddy1996 wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:30 am
Stanina wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:02 am
There was good recommendation in one of the posts on forum. If you decide to go to High court after FOI, ask a lawyer to write a letter to INIS that you will initiate court action in 4 weeks in relation on citizenship decision. In some cases it might save you time and money.
I did write to them before the high court and they didint really care they threatened me back as well saying that if I go to high court we will make sure you will pay everything to the high court in case if I luse

polarcub
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:04 pm

That's very interesting and good information to know. Thank you for sharing.

Do you have any idea on what the cost would be?

It's important to request FOI prior to proceeding with legal counsel it seems, because you'll have all the information on why your case is delayed. Though I did worryingly read this post on xxxxxx which detailed that in one of their cases, the DOJ did not share everything in an FOI including a Garda investigation. This meant that the department can then defend itself re a delay by citing the ongoing investigation.

Read it here: weblink removed by moderator.
Vorona wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:33 pm
Paddy1996 wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:30 am
I did write to them before the high court and they didint really care they threatened me back as well saying that if I go to high court we will make sure you will pay everything to the high court in case if I luse
This is true unfortunately. They have their own lawyers and they can fight back and have done so in the past. If they win you will have to recover their costs which are not going to be small. I'd suggest going for judicial review only if you are absolutely confident.

Also you mentioned that they have twice conducted good character checks on you. You might want to request an official police certificate from Albania or any other country that you have lived in before and send it to them. There could be a little chance that this delay caused by Albanian side and lack of co-operation.

polarcub
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:20 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:09 pm

An FOI are free, and are processed within 4 weeks after mailing a simple application. This is true even in current circumstances. FOIs provide applicants with info on what has been done on their application, and may give then information on what's been causing a delay or when they can expect an answer.

Please also refer to my earlier post re not sharing personal opinions in this forum. Please refer to other threads that are meant for that. This forum is not one of them. Thanks.
iamok wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:01 am
Waiting for 3 years now on processing of citizenship for my wife. We consulted a lawyer last year who sent a letter on our behalf which was responded to by the department just before the pandemic hit last year. The letter noted that the application was being prepared for submission to the minister, however, a few days later the whole country went into lockdown so we never heard back anything after that.

We inquired over email in October when restrictions were eased and we were told that the application was at an advanced stage and the department did not require any further documentation or information from us. The email noted that a decision will be communicated to us in due course which makes me think that the application is just awaiting final sign off.

While everyone may have different circumstances, I think we should all be a bit more patient and wait another 6 months (at least) until the COVID situation comes under control and normal processing resumes again. It seems like the department hasn't really started rolling out regular approvals and is currently working on drafting the affidavit process for individuals already approved so, until all that is clarified, we should try not to frustrate ourselves and see how things pan out before spending any money on lawyers.

I know that 3 years is a long time and it has been frustrating for us, however, I don't think that going to court or making a FOI request will make any difference at this stage. This is mainly because a lot of processing time has been lost due to the pandemic and the court case in 2019. In addition, the Minister of Justice has herself been sick since the start of the year. So the department will cite all these as reasons for delay. I am also not sure how quickly a high court case or application for FOI will be acted upon under the current circumstances.

Vorona
- thin ice -
Posts: 447
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Vorona » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 pm

polarcub wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:04 pm
Do you have any idea on what the cost would be?
Several thousands of euros I believe just for your own costs. Depending on many different factors.
Paddy1996 wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:36 pm
Well I won’t be able to get nothing from my country as I have been granted with a refugee status in Ireland that mean they can’t ask me noting in relation Albanian as they have no rights as I do not be able to get anything from my own country I am not even able to go back to home since 7 years
You don't have to go to Albania to get your criminal record. Request it from Albanian embassy or ask your relatives. They must help you with this. You can be a refugee, but you're still Albanian citizen.

Hussein Kubadi
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Hussein Kubadi » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:23 pm

polarcub wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:45 am
Hi

This post is for those who applied pre-pandemic and have been waiting an excess period of time in receiving a response on their citizenship application, and are looking at what options they have to bring a resolution to their application:
- What steps did you take to force the department to make a decision?
- Did you recently make a FOI request? (how long were you waiting)
- Have you hired a lawyer to to bring a Judicial Review against the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in order to compel the Department to make a decision in your case? (this is done by submitting a case before the High Courts)
- How much did that cost for you?

I will state that going via a TD will only get you a standard response from the minister. It's an option to try and cross out, but that doesn't force a decision.

Url for making an FOI: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Fre ... nformation
Hi Dear good evening.
I applied for Naturalization August 2018 after Six months, my Documents goes to Second stage. They said you are on good Character. We will Submit Your file to the minister to review and sign soon We will send your approval letter. I was very excited and I said they send Approval letter by end of 2019.
But they didn’t so I hired a Lawyer I paid €1500 My Lawyer bring my Case to Judicial review they submit to Immigration Service to Compel the Department to make a Decision the Department of Justice give me one month to review my all Documents after that they made a Decision and it was Positive. Thank you.

Paddy1996
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Posts: 98
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Albania

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Paddy1996 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:01 pm

Hussein Kubadi wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:23 pm
polarcub wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:45 am
Hi

This post is for those who applied pre-pandemic and have been waiting an excess period of time in receiving a response on their citizenship application, and are looking at what options they have to bring a resolution to their application:
- What steps did you take to force the department to make a decision?
- Did you recently make a FOI request? (how long were you waiting)
- Have you hired a lawyer to to bring a Judicial Review against the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in order to compel the Department to make a decision in your case? (this is done by submitting a case before the High Courts)
- How much did that cost for you?

I will state that going via a TD will only get you a standard response from the minister. It's an option to try and cross out, but that doesn't force a decision.

Url for making an FOI: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Fre ... nformation
Hi Dear good evening.
I applied for Naturalization August 2018 after Six months, my Documents goes to Second stage. They said you are on good Character. We will Submit Your file to the minister to review and sign soon We will send your approval letter. I was very excited and I said they send Approval letter by end of 2019.
But they didn’t so I hired a Lawyer I paid €1500 My Lawyer bring my Case to Judicial review they submit to Immigration Service to Compel the Department to make a Decision the Department of Justice give me one month to review my all Documents after that they made a Decision and it was Positive. Thank you.
So you saying that the court gave 1 month time to the department to give your decision when did that happen?

polarcub
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Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:52 am

What is your source on that amount? How do you know this?
Vorona wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 pm
polarcub wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:04 pm
Do you have any idea on what the cost would be?
Several thousands of euros I believe just for your own costs. Depending on many different factors.
Paddy1996 wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:36 pm
Well I won’t be able to get nothing from my country as I have been granted with a refugee status in Ireland that mean they can’t ask me noting in relation Albanian as they have no rights as I do not be able to get anything from my own country I am not even able to go back to home since 7 years
You don't have to go to Albania to get your criminal record. Request it from Albanian embassy or ask your relatives. They must help you with this. You can be a refugee, but you're still Albanian citizen.

polarcub
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Mood:
Ireland

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by polarcub » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:55 am

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, it is very useful for others considering their options.

What steps did you take before you proceed to court to force a decision - did you request an FOI? Did your lawyer send a letter to threaten the department?

How much time did it take from the time you initiated court proceedings, to getting a decision from the courts? and when did you file your case with the High Court?

On the 1,500 - that's the total cost I assume, including the fee for bringing your case in front of the high court?
Hussein Kubadi wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:23 pm
polarcub wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:45 am
Hi

This post is for those who applied pre-pandemic and have been waiting an excess period of time in receiving a response on their citizenship application, and are looking at what options they have to bring a resolution to their application:
- What steps did you take to force the department to make a decision?
- Did you recently make a FOI request? (how long were you waiting)
- Have you hired a lawyer to to bring a Judicial Review against the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in order to compel the Department to make a decision in your case? (this is done by submitting a case before the High Courts)
- How much did that cost for you?

I will state that going via a TD will only get you a standard response from the minister. It's an option to try and cross out, but that doesn't force a decision.

Url for making an FOI: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Fre ... nformation
Hi Dear good evening.
I applied for Naturalization August 2018 after Six months, my Documents goes to Second stage. They said you are on good Character. We will Submit Your file to the minister to review and sign soon We will send your approval letter. I was very excited and I said they send Approval letter by end of 2019.
But they didn’t so I hired a Lawyer I paid €1500 My Lawyer bring my Case to Judicial review they submit to Immigration Service to Compel the Department to make a Decision the Department of Justice give me one month to review my all Documents after that they made a Decision and it was Positive. Thank you.

Stanina
Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:02 pm
Ireland

Re: Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

Post by Stanina » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:06 pm

Some member of the forum paid 3500 Euros in legal fees(for both parties) in 2019

"The judicial review case in the end and my solicitor and barrister got leave of the court for me to do judicial review. Then the citizenship department granted my application just as I was told that they would. It has cost me financially and emotionally but I got there. I can get on with my life and my medical career now. I don’t have to worry about my non-eea status anymore. I have the same training opportunity as my Irish and eu colleagues. It was worth it. 3.5k for the legal fees because the court will not a grant Costs against the state because they say that the decision was going to be made anyway and judicial review made no difference. I don’t believe them. If I did not do this I would not have my citizenship now. Hats off to my solicitor. A very clever and experienced lady."
ireland/delay-in-citizenship-applicatio ... l#p1748096

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