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Stamp 4 renewal

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Ciklet
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Temporary Stamp 4 - Employment Permit

Post by Ciklet » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:36 am

Hi everyone,
First of all, I am sorry that if there is a topic regarding my question, as far as I see, I just could not find any answer to my question.
I have received temporary stamp 4, but because Burgh Quay's closure I could not register it yet. Without registration, only the temporary stamp 4 letter received by EUTR gives me the employment permit? Or should I register it to receive the permit? Is there any exemption regarding covid situation?
EUTR division directed me to Burgh Quay, and Burgh Quay has responded with standard text, also I could not find any announcements on INIS regarding this.
Thanks,

littlerr
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Re: Temporary Stamp 4 - Employment Permit

Post by littlerr » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:32 am

You talked about EUTR and then employment permit. These two don’t usually appear in the same place.

How did you obtain your Stamp 4? Why do you want an employment permit? Normally only those who are about to get divorced or otherwise separated would apply for employment permit while on Treaty Rights.

Ciklet
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Re: Temporary Stamp 4 - Employment Permit

Post by Ciklet » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:19 pm

I might have explained it a little complicated.
I got temporary stamp 4 permission from EUTR as non-EU spouse of EU citizen. There is no getting divorced or separation situation, I am just waiting for my application to finalize. As far as I know, normally when I could register my stamp 4 permission, I do not need an employment permit, I should have an automatic right to work in Ireland. However, due to Burgh Quay's closure, I cannot register the permission. So I just wondering, do I have permission to work at this moment, or should I have to register?
Maybe I used "employment permit" in the wrong way. All I asking basically is, do I have a right to work in Ireland without registration of the stamp 4.

littlerr
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Re: Temporary Stamp 4 - Employment Permit

Post by littlerr » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:02 pm

Yes. You can work right away.

You can show INIS's official FAQ document (currently in Question 46) to the employer in case there's any questions.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Immigrat ... 9-FAQ4.pdf
Q 46. I am waiting for an appointment for my first-time registration and I need proof of my permission to remain to enable me to take up employment. What should I do?

In recognition of the impact of COVID-19 on customers using immigration services, Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee, T.D., extended all immigration and international protection permissions until September 20 2021. As soon as Burgh Quay re-opens you can register your permission in Dublin.
This should reassure employers that your permission is valid even though you are unable to register in Dublin as the public office at Burgh Quay is currently closed. If you have a difficulty please contact support@immigrationservices.ie

Ciklet
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Re: Temporary Stamp 4 - Employment Permit

Post by Ciklet » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:34 pm

That explains a lot.
Thank you for the help :)

Ciklet
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Stamp 4 renewal

Post by Ciklet » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:28 pm

Hi everyone,

I wonder, approximately how many days it takes to get stamp 4 renewal letter from EU Treaty nowadays?

My stamp is about to expire and still, I couldn’t get my renewal letter yet.

All I know is they already checked my spouse’s employment.

Thank you,

littlerr
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by littlerr » Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:58 pm

What is this 'renewal' that you are talking about? EU1 / 3 / 5? Or just a temporary renewal?

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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by CR001 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:02 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:58 pm
What is this 'renewal' that you are talking about? EU1 / 3 / 5? Or just a temporary renewal?
Topics merged.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

Ciklet
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by Ciklet » Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:19 pm

Just temporary renewal

littlerr
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by littlerr » Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:33 pm

Just email them with a copy of your IRP card and passport details. Tell them that your temporary permission is about to expire, and ask for a new temporary permission or a final decision.

If you have already done that but haven't received any reply, just keep checking with them once a while. It appears that their responding time has slowed down quite a bit these days.

Ciklet
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by Ciklet » Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:46 pm

I have already emailed them and I know they checked my spouse's employment. Also, they confirm that my renewal is in process.

My concern is what will happen to my employment after the expiry.

I stated this to EU Treaty as well and they said I might show these emails to my employer (these emails technically shows that my renewal is in the process), but what this should mean to my employer?

Also, there are some arrangements for employment permit holders who wish to renew their permit(COVID19 - Employment Permits System Contingency Arrangements). Even I do not have an employment permit, can it be assumed that also I can continue to work because my renewal is in the process as well?

littlerr
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by littlerr » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:24 pm

As a (potential) EU Treaty beneficiary, you do not need an employment permit. Therefore, you can simply continue working while they confirm the application is still in progress. The email from INIS is sufficient.

Did your employer ask you to show them proofs that you can continue working past a certain date, or is it that you are simply worrying that they may do that? It just doesn’t sound like the type of things that an employer would bother checking.

Ciklet
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by Ciklet » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:53 pm

Please correct me if I am wrong but do not I need temporary stamp 4 to continue to work even my application is still in progress?

My employer asked for my new IRP card and stated that if I cannot provide it, they cannot keep me as an employee.

littlerr
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by littlerr » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:33 pm

Ciklet wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:53 pm
Please correct me if I am wrong but do not I need temporary stamp 4 to continue to work even my application is still in progress?

My employer asked for my new IRP card and stated that if I cannot provide it, they cannot keep me as an employee.
Your permission is assumed to continue to be valid when your application is in progress. You do not need to show an IRP card to your employer, as long as you can prove that your application is in progress. Your employer is not above the law and they cannot decide whether you have permission to work. That is INIS’s job and if INIS has said the email is sufficient proof, that is it.

You can, however, insist that the EU Treaty Rights team issue you a formal letter to grant you a further temporary permission if you do not want to argue with your employer. However, in a way, you should (politely) remind your employer that they are not in any position to take law into their own hands.

Ciklet
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by Ciklet » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:13 pm

This is amazing news for me!

Because I do not know about this, I was actually insisting on the letter for more than 3 weeks and they still cannot grant it, unfortunately.

Do you have an idea which law is this exactly part of it? Directive 2004/38/ec or a completely different one? I couldn't find it on Directive 2004/38/ec and as it seems neither me nor my employer knows about it. So, providing the law to my employer would make it much easier with my employer.

Btw, thank you for all the information you have provided, it is really a relief to me.

littlerr
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by littlerr » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:42 pm

Usually it's just common sense for employers. It's not their jurisdiction. They should (actually they must) take the direction given by INIS regarding whether a non-EU person can live or work in the country.

2004/83/EC explicitly requires national authorities to process applications within 6 months, and specifically mentions that the person cannot be expelled in any shape or form if the application has not been completed within the 6-month period.

The reality is, even though INIS is required by law to process applications within 6 months, they seldom accomplish that timeframe. INIS will allow applicants to continue doing whatever they do on the assumption that they will be approved eventually, unless there is any question mark over whether the applicant or the application (e.g. if the applicant comes to Ireland without a valid visa, or if there are concerns re sham marriage etc).

A summary of the formalities regarding residence card applications is available here:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r ... dex_en.htm
The authorities should make their decision to issue a residence card or not within 6 months. If they do not do so, you can call on our assistance services. In any case, your non-EU family members cannot be expelled if their visa expired while their application is being processed.

Ciklet
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Re: Stamp 4 renewal

Post by Ciklet » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:17 pm

I get the point. :)

Once again thank you for all the information, it was really helpful!

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