Archive » United Kingdom » Umbrella Comp. is ILLEGAL for a work permit holder!!!!
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| ****** Junior Member Member # 3292 | Posted May 06, 2002 10:08 PM Are the uses of an Umbrella Companies services illegal for a work permit holders? The answer is: YES, IT IS ILLEGAL!!!! Well, at list this is all the information I got when my work permit was taken away from just to days before my departure to the UK. I hope this wont happens to any one else. So I will try to explain what has happened to me so others can be very careful. I will try to keep it short, as I don’t want to bother with this, just want to inform and also to be informed if it is possible. After several months (almost tow years) of searching for an opportunity to work in the UK, I have at last found a great opportunity!!!. It was just what I was looking for. I was going to work with an honorable and well-known international company, so I was very happy about it… After few weeks I received my contract and work permit by mail. I just could not believe it!!! It was a dream come true. At last! an excellent opportunity to develop my career and be able to improve my family quality of life. I was so happy. Considering that I was going to work in a very far away country and that there was a lot of paperwork to do, I wanted to make sure that every thing was all right. So I went to the British Embassy to have all my documents checked and also to get my wife and children’s visas. Every thing was fine. Great!!!…. The only question I got was: “What is your departure date?” They need it in order to set a date to give me the visas I needed. I was not quite sure at that time, but it was around one month after that date. So they told me, “When you have your departure date, come back for the visas, this is a short process, this will take no more than 2 days”. After that information on hand and knowing that I wont have any problems with my papers, work permit or my families visas, I made the move. I quit my job, sold every thing I had, got the plane tickets, etc... THE SURPRESI!!!!!! I went to the British Embassy in order to get my wife and children visas, and guess what… I got a “Hummmmmmmm?… Could you please bring over all the document againg?”….. I just could not believe it!!!!….. They toke my work permit in order to have it checked!!!!!!! There was probably a problem with it!!!!!!, this was a nightmare!!!!!. They said every thing was ok before, so What is worng know?... Well….. few days went by… and I got the answer….
The company did not understand what was all this about, since they have hired a lot of people using this same services “Umbrella Company”. So, after that the company apologies to me and said that they did not know what was going on my end, but they will try another way to get me there. So they offered my a permanent position, I got my new contract, every thing was going well again, but then……… they were not able to sponsor a new work permit for me because the first one is under an investigation. Lord!!!…. Well it was a matter of time, I thought…. The Company said they did every thing that was in their hands. But they don’t know anything about the investigation. The DfEE told me that they can not give that information to me. The British Embassy said they don’t handle that information. They only thing they are sure is that THE USE OF AN UMBRELLA COMPANY SERVICES IS ILLEGAL FOR A WORK PERMIT HOLDER. And that’s it. Now I am trying to get my life back again. And believe me, it is not easy. Been left with know answer and not been able to find it, just trying to forget all what has happened. Been affected because some one made a mistake, and not knowing what…. Is just frustrating. [ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: ****** ] |
| Deleted Member Member # 128 | Posted May 06, 2002 10:37 PM I'm sorry it's been so tough for you. How unfortunate you've had to go through this. The problem must've been that there was no service-providing contract between the two companies. The UK authorities have been cracking down in these companies who are contravening the work permit regulations. Thanks for sharing your experiences as this will hopefully serve as a warning to many. |
| Alex Member Member # 54 | Posted May 07, 2002 02:43 PM Dear ******, Could you tell us what was the name of the employer in your workpermit? I mean - there is place only for one name there - you cannot put name of your And - you know - selling all you property before going to work for a couple of years |
| sunnyprofessor Junior Member Member # 2373 | Posted May 07, 2002 04:44 PM So sorry to hear about your problems. Unfortunately, I am about to do the same thing in regards to selling everything and moving to the UK. Yes, it is radical. Yet what are we going to do? Keep two homes? If you don't mind, I would also like both company names. I am about to be sponsored by a company in the UK and want to make sure that neither the company name nor the WP issuing company is the same as yours. Sunnyprofessor |
| Witt Member Member # 567 | Posted May 07, 2002 04:48 PM quote: just some advice from another professor here: |
| ****** Junior Member Member # 3292 | Posted May 07, 2002 05:09 PM Dear Alex, There was only one name on the work permit: UNISYS I was not going to work with them only for a couple of years; this was a permanent position opportunity. But we arrange a 6 month contract first for training and evaluation prepuces. After that I was going to work on permanent basis. About the decision of selling every thing I had, well that is our fault. That was a family decision because we rather take that chance that being separated for more than 6 months. We knew we were taking risks, an that may be for any reason we had to come back. But it was up to us, we just had to work hard and give a 100% of our self or more. But it never crossed ours minds that we were not going to get there at all. Your are right, it was too radical. I am learning from my mistake, an I hope this will open the eyes of others ho might be thinking before hand that is just up to them. My mistake was to think that because I did everything legally, went thru all the normal procedures, went to the Embassy and they said every thing was all right. So at this point I thought, “What could be wrong from now on?”, nothing, is up to me from now on!!! I just have to work hard and make thing happened. My mistake. [ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: ****** ] |
| Alex Member Member # 54 | Posted May 07, 2002 05:18 PM Cesar, As I understand all this story happened one year ago - is not UNISYS still able to sponsor the WP? I am working in 10 minutes from their London office and I am looking at their direction quite frequently. I mean - anybody can make mistakes - does it mean that UNISYS is now in some kind of black list? Anyway - good luck to you ... |
| ****** Junior Member Member # 3292 | Posted May 07, 2002 05:19 PM Sunnyprofessor, The name of the company is: UNISYS Don’t be square about this. Just take care. The thing is that a work permit holder has to be paid by the employer only. In my case I had to be paid by Unisys and not for an Umbrella-Company Services. So people have told me that it is 100% legal. But the DfEE, British Embassy said it is not. |
| ****** Junior Member Member # 3292 | Posted May 07, 2002 05:24 PM Alex, I don't think Unisys is on a black list. Unisys said it just some thing that happend to me at my end, and they don't have control over that. They just don¿t know..... The Umbrella Company.... Don't know The Embassy... Don't handle that information The DfEE.... can not give that information directly to my Unisys don't know any thing about the investigation. I don't know. |
| Alex Member Member # 54 | Posted May 07, 2002 05:40 PM I think umbrella company should know everything - if I understood you correctly, the umbrella applied for your permit and they could call the Workpermit (UK) and ask them, but since there wasn't money for them in it, they did not bother. Or possibly I did not understant you - if you had only UNISYS on your WP - how did the Embassy know about umbrella ?? [ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Alex ] |
| ****** Junior Member Member # 3292 | Posted May 07, 2002 05:50 PM Alex, As I been told the procedure was like this: - Unisys is the Company ho sponsored the work permit. Unisys told me that they use this procedure to all their contacted labor, so they don't know why it is illegal. My be there is nothing worng, but I don't have my work permit any more and I lose the opportunity since UNISYS con't not wait for ever for me. |
| Alex Member Member # 54 | Posted May 07, 2002 05:59 PM OK - it looks like it was UNISYS error - they used umbrellas for LOCAL contractors, they wanted to use the same procedure for you and they never tried to read anything about WP regulations - interesting, how many lawyers they have in their staff? Yes - it's absolutely illegal to hire someone on WP and pay him through umbrella... Honestly, I do not believe that they did not know anything about the investigation - one more story about agencies and HR - they do not know anything and they do not want to know anything. |
| ****** Junior Member Member # 3292 | Posted May 07, 2002 06:17 PM How many lawyers they have in their staff? I think too many. I wont go there. |
| Mauricio Member Member # 1882 | Posted May 08, 2002 02:04 AM Hi there. I am so sorry for what happened to you, I do believe that it wasn't your fault at all for what you said. Moreover I believe that you can take legal action against ether the British council and the company. Against the British council because there is a universal legal principle that you can appeal and was clearly jeopardised. When the home office in the UK granted a work permit on your name you gained rights that can't be retired without the culmination of an investigation that usually take quite long time. That means that you are entitled to carry on with your work permit and job issue, moving to UK and etc in the meantime, until there was a final decision after a full investigation. If after the final investigation they decide that they are going to retire the Work Permit on your behalf, because a unlawfully situation have taken place in the whole process, you are legally entitled to have a full compensation from the company for all the economical, moral and psychological effects that this problem would cause to you (In this case any compensation company would gladly take your case working for you on a base no win no fees). What I want to do is encouraging you to make your rights be respected, You can look for help in human rights organisations, use the press and all the means that you can find, is the only way to prevent this situation to happen again and the chain be broken on the weakest link, that always is a person as you. Cheer up and fight back!!!. And try to carry on with your life in the meantime. |
| Witt Member Member # 567 | Posted May 08, 2002 08:31 AM quote: yeah, it seems like the whole umbrella thing happened because the position was contract, not permanent. It was a standard UK contractor umbrella which provides tax services etc, also known as a management company. |
| ****** Junior Member Member # 3292 | Posted May 09, 2002 05:09 PM Dear Mauricio, Thank you very much for your words. If I had or have these rights, I wonder Why no body told me that in the British Embassy?. They only told me that I could apply to another company and that my work permit is of no use, they have confiscated it. They only blame Unisys, and they did told me that I could look for help in human rights organizations, but I thought this was bull…. I have done some research on the internet about law rights, but the ones that I have found are for employees that have worked for more than 12 months for a company, not my case. I have not found any rights for work permit holders. There is no place where to complain either. Where can I find or get in contact with a Compensation Company that would be interested in taking this case? Thanks again. [ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: ****** ] |
| Ansu Member Member # 62 | Posted May 09, 2002 06:06 PM I am curious now. My Workpermit is sponsored by a Company 'X' while my employment contract is with Company 'Y' which is recruitment agency. And hence I get my salary from the recruitement company 'Y'. Please give your comments. |
| ****** Junior Member Member # 3292 | Posted May 09, 2002 07:01 PM Ansu, As far as I know, the WP regulations establishes that you have to by paid directly by the company on your work permit. So apparently if some one is going to work on WP and use and UC (Y), the correct process is: (I am guessing here) -Company X gets in contact with Umbrella Company Y, or vise versa (They have to arrange some king of contract betwen them). -Umbrella Company Y Sponsors the WP for you to work with them (Y). -The Company name on the WP has to be: Y -You can work legally for Company Y. -You get paid by Y. In other words you are legally working to Y and not to X. Now, you can work at X legally. How is that?, well X is a client of Y, so you are working for Y, but you are at his client X doing work. That is ok as far as I know. But the confusion I think is because to the Umbrella Company all the responsibility is on Company X and that’s way they put Company X on the WP. This is not right. |
| Deleted Member Member # 128 | Posted May 09, 2002 07:04 PM It is illegal whenever you're not being paid by the company that sponsored your work permit. [ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: Héctor ] |
| Ansu Member Member # 62 | Posted May 10, 2002 10:00 AM Thanks a lot. I will thankful to you all if you can give me any URL or any other sources giving details of these rules. Thanks once gain. |
| Deleted Member Member # 128 | Posted May 10, 2002 04:48 PM See http://www.workpermits.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=1704 |
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