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Archive » United Kingdom » More skills removed from Shortage skills list

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Juggler Member Member # 2456	Posted May 07, 2002 08:19 PM PCG has been successful in getting C/C++ removed from the shortage skills list. With skills being removed at this rate, there would hardly be any skill left in next few months. Click HERE to see the updated shortage list. [ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Juggler ]
mystikal Member Member # 2457	Posted May 07, 2002 08:45 PM The whole technology area idea is faulty, there are so many skill sets such as assembly,Computer Generated imaging languages,safery critical languages that are not on the list.I expect the list to shrink even further.
Juggler Member Member # 2456	Posted May 07, 2002 08:50 PM Probably there wouldn't be any work permit scheme left by the end of this year.
Alex the Warrior unregistered	Posted May 07, 2002 09:09 PM You can still get a work permit provided you have a job offer, it just requires company to advertise post, which they do anyway, otherwise how would you have found out about them? Its just no more fast track no-question work permits issues to everyone who read C++ for dummies in 24 minutes. This is not to question your skills by the way, as I dont know you. Fact is, a lot of really unsuitable people got jobs then got fired, and started heavily discounting which naturally pisses off local population more than the fact that foreigners gets a jobs. Work permit scheme will certainly stay, just dont expect easy ride.
Juggler Member Member # 2456	Posted May 07, 2002 09:44 PM I think now the companies will have to prove that they cannot find a suitable person locally. I dont think most companies will go through all that trouble. It does not matter if someone read "C++ for Dummies" or worked for years using some skill. I think this matter needs some informed opinion from an experienced lawyer from workpermit.com rather than from someone who read "Immigration Law for Dummies". (I do not mean you as I do not know you).
Alex the Warrior unregistered	Posted May 07, 2002 09:53 PM Obviously companies will have to conduct that search! And hey, what do you expect if this skill is removed from the list? Remember, original intention to have Tier 1 list was due to the fact that a number of technologies were known to be in shortage, so it was an unnecessary burden to force ALL companies to go through search, hence fast track. Now these technologies do NOT appear to be in shortage, so they were removed, and now companies will have to go through this search (obviously you dont like it), and if there will lots of these companies then probably this skill will make it back to the list. And if companies don't need you badly enough to check with locals first, then what do you expect? You can't expect to get priority over locals and thats it.
Juggler Member Member # 2456	Posted May 07, 2002 10:04 PM Its not what me, you or anyone likes. Most companies will not bother to go through any beaurocratic (Sorry for the spelling) red tape that will now be in place. There will still be a lot of people who would qualify for a work permit even if such search is carried out. But this will not happen due to longer and complicated recruitment process.
Alex the Warrior unregistered	Posted May 07, 2002 10:17 PM You are forgetting that these jobs can't be given to foreigners at the expense of locals -- thats the principle of any reasonable Gov. Current trend (in IT at least) is that immigration laws will be tightened, and I would not be suprised to see 4 years on workpermit rule changed to 5-6 or even completely abolished. The only thing you and me can do about it is to branch out into other shortage skills or to be of real value known to your competitors so that you can always get a job there. Contacts help - make them whilst you still work. A potentially good thing is that due to increased red tape companies might be inclined to use external companies, who are known to HomeOffice and that allows them to process work permits quickly.
herman Member Member # 12	Posted May 07, 2002 10:25 PM Today's news is particularly worrisome for me, as C/C++ is my core skill! However, as Alex said, this will probably mean little, as the post had to be advertised anyway, and that the employer can already say they met that requirement. I think that workpermit.com's assessment certificate may be more valuable than ever in this case. However, this correlates what is being said all along, that the skills shortage created during the .com boom has largely evaporated. While UK unemployment is still low, a lot of this is due to the fact that there are just enough jobs to take in all of the people made redundant. The economic recovery has been slow in coming, as evidenced by several news articles, however, it is only a matter of time before skill shortages are evident again, as many have said here. When this time comes, it is important to lobby for our side; to get those skills placed back on the shortage list, and to lobby in favour of the much discussed "green card scheme" that is more inclusive than HSMP. I know of one such organisation, the CSSA, which workpermit.com is a part of that helped to get the laws liberalised in the first place. While the PCG may have a point that currently, there are no skill shortages in IT, when skill shortages are evident again, we must let Workpermits UK know. One thing I just thought of is that maybe we could apply for a job doing one skill not on Tier 1, but one of our other skills may be on Tier 1, so do the job with say, C/C++, but apply for the workpermit saying that you're a SQL Server expert. I wonder if this is possible... [ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: herman ]
Alex Member Member # 54	Posted May 08, 2002 09:36 AM And everything is quite on the workpermit.com side - no comments as usual. What a wonderful attitude to their potential clients - the only explanation is that they are out of the business already. On the other hand their version of the shortage list still contains all excluded skills - one more detail of the quality of their service. To herman: I think SQL Server skills will be removed in the nearest future - and this is my main skill. [ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: Alex ]
Deleted Member Member # 128	Posted May 08, 2002 09:38 AM The shortage occupations list is meant to constantly change so that it reflects the current needs of the UK job market. Per my recent experience recruiting someone for my team, there are still a lot of people who were made redundant last year and haven’t found a job yet. As soon as the economy improves skill shortages should arise again and the list will start “growing” again.
Alex Member Member # 54	Posted May 08, 2002 09:46 AM To Héctor: I am absolutely agree with you about necessity of changing the shortage list - my main question which I've been asking for last month is - Is it still possible for workpermit holders to change their jobs? And if it's possible - how difficult is the process?
Alex Member Member # 54	Posted May 08, 2002 10:00 AM Just spoke to my friend - yesterday he was granted 5-year workpermit (employer change) as Delphi+Oracle programmer - he has been working in UK for 1.5 year already. He also promised to send me a reference to some good legal company which helped him with all paperwork.
Deleted Member Member # 128	Posted May 08, 2002 10:02 AM Hi Alex. As I told you a little while ago, I don’t know the answer to that question either. I guess we’ll have to wait until somebody who has gone through it comments on his/her experience. In workpermit.com’s defence, though, I must say they are under no obligation to reply to enquiries on this forum. After all, they’re running a business (not a charity) and if you want their qualified advice then you must pay for it.
Alex Member Member # 54	Posted May 08, 2002 10:17 AM quote: Originally posted by Héctor: Hi Alex. In workpermit.com’s defence, though, I must say they are under no obligation to reply to enquiries on this forum. After all, they’re running a business (not a charity) and if you want their qualified advice then you must pay for it. In such case they shouldn't open this discussion forum; besides that - I do not ask for very detailed advice, because I understand that I would need to pay for it - I am looking for any comment of very serious changes that are happening on the market. They also should remove their version of the shortage list because it is outdated - if they are really worried about their reputation of course.
Arman Junior Member Member # 2949	Posted May 08, 2002 11:56 AM There have been instances that even Tech Support and high end networking does not attract the right candidate. At the same time there are so many foreigners with such skills, but cannot be taken because of Work permit problems.
herman Member Member # 12	Posted May 08, 2002 07:45 PM To Alex: I don't suppose that your friend's company is hiring? ;-) Anyway, I have tinkered with SQL server, but not as much as I've written C/C++. So it's not my main skill, but I can find my way around it... Anyway, like Hector said, skill shortages should be back, after all, the economy has been through recessions before, only to emerge stronger each time from them. We all know who lobbies for skills being taken off the shortage list, I just think it's important to contact who lobbies for skills being placed on the shortage list when shortages arise again. As I said before, I know of one such organisation, the CSSA.
Alex Member Member # 54	Posted May 08, 2002 08:06 PM quote: Originally posted by herman: To Alex: Anyway, like Hector said, skill shortages should be back... There is shortage of railway transport engineers at the moment - but I haven't seen them on this site for some reason [ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: Alex ]
Alex the Warrior unregistered	Posted May 08, 2002 08:15 PM I would just like to add that recently I have received a 3 year extention of my work permit without any troubles applying direct -- only one extention form was filled. My skills are still on the list (some of what I do was removed however). The reason I didn't go for 5 years is because it made no sense as I have already spent 1.5 years on work permit and there is no point to ask for more than needed.
native_workers_ruin Junior Member Member # 3324	Posted May 09, 2002 12:10 AM I suspect that reducing the skills shortage list is in part due to last year's Luxembourg court ruling that Eastern European citizens must be granted residence in destination E.U. countries if they set up own business there. This opens way to large influx of both skilled and unskilled workforce from all the Eastern Europe, so they won't need non-European workers here anymore. Pretty cruel. I'm sorry for you. Please, don't blame me, the Eastern European, since I am for open borders to everybody and for no national discrimination.
Deleted Member Member # 128	Posted May 09, 2002 07:26 PM Past experiences with EU enlargement have proven that mobility between countries is limited, mainly due to language/cultural barriers. Opponents to the EU used to hold this argument but studies carried out by the EU itself have found that most people stay in their native countries, or move only temporarily to other EU countries. In the same way people from poor EU countries like Greece and Portugal didn’t flock towards the rich countries, it is unlikely that granting EU membership to Eastern European countries will make a big difference in the skill shortages.
herman Member Member # 12	Posted May 09, 2002 08:21 PM A quote from a BBC Online news article, speaking about the possible EU expansion to the eastern countries and how fear of being inundated with immigrants has helped Joerg Haider's Freedom Party in Austria, said it best: "Prague and Budapest do not want to lose their surgeons and programmers any more than Vienna wants to be inundated with immigrants."
Alex the Warrior unregistered	Posted May 09, 2002 11:38 PM With all due respect Herman, Prague and Budapest have got exactly nothing to do with personal decision of surgeons and programmers to go to work elsewhere. This is no longer communist state, you know? You would be suprised how many people move to work abroad NOT just for money but for freedoms available there where the State can't tell you what to do (subject to your immigration status of course), and no bloody city can claim a right to govern your life. If I had a choice (and I actually do) to earn as much or more in my home country, even then I would have not gone back. Haider's authority on immigration issues is as good as the Nazies. He is certainly NOT representative of the EU. All of the above doesn't mean that eastern countries will (or should) receive rights of mobility in the EU anytime soon (probably past 2010).
native_workers_ruin Junior Member Member # 3324	Posted May 10, 2002 05:43 AM quote: Originally posted by Alex the Warrior: With all due respect Herman, Prague and Budapest have got exactly nothing to do with personal decision of surgeons and programmers to go to work elsewhere. Hungarian and Czech companies/institutions may just increase their salaries in order to prevent their emigration. quote: This is no longer communist state, you know? You would be suprised how many people move to work abroad NOT just for money but for freedoms available there where the State can't tell you what to do (subject to your immigration status of course), and no bloody city can claim a right to govern your life. If I had a choice (and I actually do) to earn as much or more in my home country, even then I would have not gone back. Me too. If there was a country indiscriminative to immigrants and with unregulated market anywhere in this world, I would migrate there even in spite of much lower salaries. Unfortunately, there is none, or I know none. (Do you?) quote: Haider's authority on immigration issues is as good as the Nazies. He is certainly NOT representative of the EU. I'm afraid that he is. What he's proposing to Austria alone, E.U. estabilishment enforces too, only for the larger area of the whole union. Is that fundamental difference? Well, actually, from this perspective, Haider seems even more liberal than them. No wonder he dared to call his party a Freedom Party... quote: All of the above doesn't mean that eastern countries will (or should) receive rights of mobility in the EU anytime soon (probably past 2010). They already received that, in 1994, reaffirmed by court in Luxemburg in 2001. The only requirement is that one sets up his/her own business in a destination country.
Deleted Member Member # 128	Posted May 10, 2002 04:54 PM What you’re talking about falls under the EEA Association Agreement. However, people from Eastern Europe in general, will not have freedom of mobility immediately upon accession to the EU. See http://www.workpermit.com/news/uk14.htm .