Older dependent relatives

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:25 pm

I think it's extremely unlikely that amendment will pass - it goes further than the previous rules and suggests any dependent adult relatives. Can't see that happening.

They are both Liberal Democrat life peers - both very socially liberal (and interesting) people. Can't see it being accepted.

Post by **secret.simon** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:59 am

It seems that the specific amendment listed was not moved for debate. Click on this link and then scroll a couple of lines up.

Mind you, as I had mentioned earlier, it is Report stage that matters in the Lords. And I disagree with avjones. There is a reasonable chance that the Lords could accept the proposed amendment at Report stage, if proposed. The House of Lords is not controlled by the government as completely as the Commons and can and does propose changes that the government does not like.

It would help if the amendments are proposed or at least supported by the non-party cross-bench peers. That way,the measure is seen as politically neutral and is more likely to be acceptable to the party peers. Besides, as experts in the fields they work in, cross-bench peers are highly respected inside and outside the House of Lords.

It is however the Commons, as the democratically elected chamber, which will have the final say. If they feel very strongly about a change, the Lords may send the proposal back to the Commons a second time, but if the Commons says no twice, the Lords back off.

Post by **secret.simon** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:16 pm

Leaked letter shows minister fears Lords defeat over trade union bill

This article showcases the influence that the Lords can bring to bear on legislation. Mind you that Nick Boles, the minister of state guiding the bill through Parliament, is a moderate minister, who is open to negotiations. The same cannot be said of James Brokenshire, the Home Office minister in charge of immigration.

Another group of people in the House of Lords that we should approach to speak on our behalf are the 26 bishops of the Church of England with seats in the House of Lords. They speak with authority and are heard respectfully on moral issues. Their contact details are in the link that I have posted and I am sure that a polite request for them to address this issue in the House of Lords would not be ignored.

Perhaps the person best placed in such a role is the Archbishop of York. Archbishop John Sentamu was a lawyer in the Supreme Court of Uganda, before fleeing from the regime of Idi Amin to the UK, where he has risen through the ranks of the Church of England to the second highest post in the Church. If he continues in this post at the time of the next Coronation, it will be his duty to crown Camilla as Queen.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:39 pm

You might well be right, Simon. It could be brought in on amendment. I'd bet a fiver against it myself, but it certainly could happen.

Post by **secret.simon** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:52 am

Report stage of the Immigration Bill 2015 in the Lords is on 9th and 15th March. If anybody wants to lobby peers to vote for an amendment that makes it easier to allow older dependent parents to come to the UK, now is the time.

The members of the House of Lords who are members of the All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on Migration may be best placed to speak on our behalfs in the Lords. It may be worth contacting them.

If you know members of the House of Lords in some other capacity (perhaps as a member of your local community or as chairman of the company you work for), it is worth writing to them requesting them to vote in favour of such amendment.

Baroness Deech, a crossbench (party-independent) member of the House of Lords, has written a guide on how to lobby members of the Lords. It is worth a read.

Linus65p · Post by **Linus65p** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:09 pm

Hi
I wonder if any one can advice about my unfortunate situation
My mum is widow, age 64 and recently hada traumatic hypoxia of brain; which has a bad prognosis likely prolonged vegetative state she used to live on her own in India and following this injury secondary to status asthmaticus and couldn't get the primary care on time she has massive ischemic chnages of brain.

She needs a one to one management and absolute utmost care to avoid any further damage and her regular ADLs.

I am the only son with medical qualification and I am settled in Uk as a British citizen. I think I know her condition well and can provide the adequate amount of care.

Please need advice?
Kind regards

Linus65p

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:14 pm

Do you mean, you are the only son and you have a medical qualification? Or that you are the only one of her children who is a doctor?

Do you have siblings? Where do they live?

Post by **Casa** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:13 pm

In addition to AVJones question, if your mother has suffered a major stroke and severe breathing difficulties, how will she be fit enough to travel or for the airline to accept her as a passenger?

Post by **Amber** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:41 am

She could travel using a medical airplane, in theory, they do offer ITU transport. I have heard of people with hypoxic brain injuries being transported. Though, it's expensive (£1,000s).

Furthermore,it'll take more than you to care for her, if she's ventilated or has a tracheostomy she'll require 24/7 care. Though, she'd probably be eligible for Continuing Healthcare under the NHS. But that's a different kettle of fish and you should be able to show how you and family here could care for her. You stand a good chance insofar as she can't afford nor has anyone to care for her where she is now. Do refer to the caseworker guidance for adult dependent applications under the immigration rules - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... FM-6.0.pdf

vishy786 · Post by **vishy786** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:55 pm

Hi

My parents are in india. I have 3 sisters, who are married. One sister is settled out or India and 2 other are in India with their families. My parents are alone in India and their health is always a concern. Is there a way i can get them a long term visa, or settlement or any type of VISA so they can easily travel over here and live with me.
I have British citizenship, if that helps.

Post by **Casa** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:11 am

To avoid having to repeat all the difficulties faced in applying for elderly parents' settlement visas, have you taken the time to read through the 15 pages of advice in this thread?
With family in the home country and without the need for daily help with dressing, bathing, feeding etc (for both of your parents), you have zero chance of success.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/out-with-the-old/

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/high-co ... hallenges/

marinakr · Post by **marinakr** » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:05 pm

Hi,
I am employed by NHS and i have purple certificate. I have applied for blue as i am more that 20 months here in UK. Is there any chance for my brother to come here and work trough me? I can guarantee for him that i will support financially. I am Croatian national

Thank you

Post by **CR001** » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:12 pm

marinakr wrote:Hi,
I am employed by NHS and i have purple certificate. I have applied for blue as i am more that 20 months here in UK. Is there any chance for my brother to come here and work trough me? I can guarantee for him that i will support financially. I am Croatian national

Thank you

Is your brother not also Croatian?? Suggest start your own topic as this one where you have posted is NOT for EU nationals but for older dependents under the UK immigration route.

Post by **Obie** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:28 pm

Despite the Hardship Caused by the Adult Dependent Relative provision, the Home Office has decided to maintain it, following the worthless result of the review.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ves-review

Post by **vinny** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:52 am

Home Office reviews Adult Dependent Relatives rules for parents and grandparents.

Post by **secret.simon** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:07 pm

The statistics on Page 11 & 12 of the Home Office report make interesting reading.

In summary, of the 2782 applications made since July 2012, only 173 application succeeded at first, but a further 439 succeeded on appeal.In total, so far, 22% of applications have succeeded, mainly at appeal stage. So, the route is not as hopeless as it seems at first sight, provided you have deep pockets to pay for the appeal process.

Secondly, the Home Office looked at alternatives, such as requiring either bonds or private health insurance to ensure that the ADR is not a burden on the NHS. But it argued that both these options would make ADRs only for the wealthy, especially as private health insurance for the elderly could be very costly and there is no guarantee that it could be renewed.

To some extent, we on these forums have probably made the Home Office's job easier, by suggesting against applying for ADRs, based on earlier statistics which had suggested that only 34 applications had succeeded in a year. Now that we have a fuller set of statistics, each person can look at their own circumstances and reflect on whether it is worth spending money on an application that is still overwhelmingly rejected (78% even after taking into account appeal successes) or whether they are confident that their case would fall in the 22% success rate. Testing the law in the courts will help clarify it further, though of course it is entirely possible that the government rewrites it.

The Home office does invite "any further information and evidence about their (the current ADR rules) operation, impact and possible alternatives" to be sent to FamilyOpsPolicy@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk, but I can only imagine the nature of missives addressed there.

basicblue2k · Post by **basicblue2k** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:50 am

Casa wrote:To avoid having to repeat all the difficulties faced in applying for elderly parents' settlement visas, have you taken the time to read through the 15 pages of advice in this thread?
With family in the home country and without the need for daily help with dressing, bathing, feeding etc (for both of your parents), you have zero chance of success.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/out-with-the-old/

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/high-co ... hallenges/

My dad is over 65 years ( 69 years) and needs daily care with bathing, feeding, dressing etc due to dementia. He fell down two times last year and needed hip replacement surgery when he fell second time. I have travelled about 4-5 times in the last 2 years due on thing or another.

My mom is 59 years and never been employed has arthritis & asthma and not able to take care of him to the required level due to her limited mobility/allergy. She even didn't know how to operate bank accounts until about couple of years.

I have a sibling but she has her own commitments and travels out most of the time also it is not appropriate in my culture for female to attend male's caring especially during their bathing, toilet visits etc.

We have tried nurses, maids etc but it has not helped in my home country as they got robbed and since then my mom is even more mentally disturbed and doesn't want to employ anyone.

May I know what chance I stand if I apply via the ADR route?

@casa says both parents need to have daily support.. how much of a case does this stand?

Post by **Casa** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:59 am

basicblue2k wrote:
Casa wrote:To avoid having to repeat all the difficulties faced in applying for elderly parents' settlement visas, have you taken the time to read through the 15 pages of advice in this thread?
With family in the home country and without the need for daily help with dressing, bathing, feeding etc (for both of your parents), you have zero chance of success.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/out-with-the-old/

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/high-co ... hallenges/
My dad is over 65 years ( 69 years) and needs daily care with bathing, feeding, dressing etc due to dementia. He fell down two times last year and needed hip replacement surgery when he fell second time. I have travelled about 4-5 times in the last 2 years due on thing or another.

My mom is 59 years and never been employed has arthritis & asthma and not able to take care of him to the required level due to her limited mobility/allergy. She even didn't know how to operate bank accounts until about couple of years.

I have a sibling but she has her own commitments and travels out most of the time also it is not appropriate in my culture for female to attend male's caring especially during their bathing, toilet visits etc.

We have tried nurses, maids etc but it has not helped in my home country as they got robbed and since then my mom is even more mentally disturbed and doesn't want to employ anyone.

May I know what chance I stand if I apply via the ADR route?

@casa says both parents need to have daily support.. how much of a case does this stand?

If you haven't already done so, I suggest you read through the Sticky thread in the link below which explains the evidence you will be expected to submit.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 87771.html

basicblue2k · Post by **basicblue2k** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:23 pm

Casa wrote:
basicblue2k wrote:
Casa wrote:To avoid having to repeat all the difficulties faced in applying for elderly parents' settlement visas, have you taken the time to read through the 15 pages of advice in this thread?
With family in the home country and without the need for daily help with dressing, bathing, feeding etc (for both of your parents), you have zero chance of success.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/out-with-the-old/

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/high-co ... hallenges/
My dad is over 65 years ( 69 years) and needs daily care with bathing, feeding, dressing etc due to dementia. He fell down two times last year and needed hip replacement surgery when he fell second time. I have travelled about 4-5 times in the last 2 years due on thing or another.

My mom is 59 years and never been employed has arthritis & asthma and not able to take care of him to the required level due to her limited mobility/allergy. She even didn't know how to operate bank accounts until about couple of years.

I have a sibling but she has her own commitments and travels out most of the time also it is not appropriate in my culture for female to attend male's caring especially during their bathing, toilet visits etc.

We have tried nurses, maids etc but it has not helped in my home country as they got robbed and since then my mom is even more mentally disturbed and doesn't want to employ anyone.

May I know what chance I stand if I apply via the ADR route?

@casa says both parents need to have daily support.. how much of a case does this stand?
If you haven't already done so, I suggest you read through the Sticky thread in the link below which explains the evidence you will be expected to submit.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 87771.html

@casa, that link you provided is very detailed and will immensely help with the documentation. No words to thank you.

My only other clarification is - can my mom get an entry clearance on the basis that she is the primary carer for dad ? albeit her own health issues i.e. Arthritis/Asthma but not as strong as my dad who needs daily support on all his tasks.

I & my wife as a sponsor would supplement where my mom fails to care for my dad. My wife as a homemaker and I as the bread winner for the family - I can demonstrate that I can earn enough to support everyone and have my own house.

Post by **Casa** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:28 pm

To be honest, I'm really not sure. I have a feeling that your mother won't qualify for an ADV as your father's carer in the home country as you are claiming to be the only person (as the sponsor) who can provide the necessary daily care.

Wait for further comments from others.

Post by **secret.simon** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:07 pm

To the best of my knowledge. there is no such thing as an ADR dependent. Each ADR application must meet the requirements in their own right.

For an ADR visa,the applicant (your father) must meet all the following conditions;

you need long-term care to do everyday personal and household tasks
the care you need is not available or affordable in the country you live in
the person you’ll be joining in the UK will be able to support, accommodate and care for you without claiming public funds for at least five years

If your mother is the primary carer for your father, then his ADR application must fail, as his care is available and being provided for in his home country.

Also, note that you must be able to provide for his care in the UK without public funds for five years. You would have to prove that you have funds to take care of him in the UK, but that the same funds can not get him equivalent care in his home country. It is possible that private hospitals in the home country may provide equivalent care at a lower cost than in the UK.

And assuming your father gets his ADR visa, there is no guarantee that your mother will. So, you may have your parents in two different countries.

Remember that 78% of ADR applications fail and that is including the number after appeals. So, you will need deep pockets to even try, with a high chance of failure. If the ADR application fails, your parents will be unlikely to visit the UK in the future.

As an aside, you mentioned that your sister can not take care of her father as there are cultural issues with women assisting their male family members. While entirely understandable, would your wife not have exactly the same limitation in providing support?

basicblue2k · Post by **basicblue2k** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:40 pm

Thank you @secret.simon for the detailed response and taking time to do this. It is really helpful and will play a key role in my decision making.

[DIGRESS] The immigration rules seem to be very cruel with respect to ADRs as I can observe. How can a 59 year old live alone without her husband who is 70 years old.

On the point of my wife's ability to care my dad, that's a rare scenario. my wife is not the same nationality as my sister - she was brought up in a different country/culture/religion.

I will also check how the other EEA countries interpret the adult dependents (esp. for my mom) - to see if Surinder Singh can be attempted.

Post by **CR001** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:13 pm

basicblue2k wrote:Thank you @secret.simon for the detailed response and taking time to do this. It is really helpful and will play a key role in my decision making.

[DIGRESS] The immigration rules seem to be very cruel with respect to ADRs as I can observe. Not cruel if you think of how the British elderly struggle for care, medical needs etc after contributing to the system for in excess of 60 years and the UK has a large proportion of an aging population.

How can a 59 year old live alone without her husband who is 70 years old.

On the point of my wife's ability to care my dad, that's a rare scenario. my wife is not the same nationality as my sister - she was brought up in a different country/culture/religion.

I will also check how the other EEA countries interpret the adult dependents (esp. for my mom) - to see if Surinder Singh can be attempted. You are running out of time for this route and you and your whole family would have to move to an EU state. Your parents would qualify as direct family members.

basicblue2k · Post by **basicblue2k** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:47 am

CR001 wrote:
basicblue2k wrote:
I will also check how the other EEA countries interpret the adult dependents (esp. for my mom) - to see if Surinder Singh can be attempted. You are running out of time for this route and you and your whole family would have to move to an EU state. Your parents would qualify as direct family members.

Thank you @CR001 for your views and giving me a ray of hope through Surinder Singh (SS) route.

I'm reading quite extensively for last couple of days on SS route and I understand there are 2 stages -

1) EEA country application for family permit/resident card once my parents land there and I have an active employment
2) EEA (FM) form filled once arrived at UK for using SS route [ albeit all other SS criteria are fulfilled related to centre of life, 6months + stay, primary residence, etc.]

In practicality how does Home Office arrive a parent is dependent while I fill this EEA (FM) form, what kind of evidence is required? Is it as stringent as ADR route or it is just a EEA treaty right to exercise and they don't require anything else other than my birth certificate.

Also, any thoughts on how does countries like Ireland, Netherland interpret Adult dependent parent? What conditions are to be met to apply family permit/residence card?

I would highly appreciate your responses based on your knowledge or experience.

rfaruque · Post by **rfaruque** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:58 am

Hi
I guess I am at the same boat interms of Immigration for Elderly parents.

I am the only child of my parents [Dad:over 75 Mum Over: 65]. Dad has been suffering from diabtics for last 20 years, on insulin for 3 times/day, have several blockage at heart, dimensia and what not. Mum had a stroke 3 years back, partially paralized, both on wheel chairs. I have got absolutely no body bakc home to take care. Tried private practice-nurse nothing works. Worst of all, the house they lived in bakc home is also threatened to be taken over by local scroudals because of the fact that no family members are actively living their to care of parents or properties..

They had multiple entry visa to UK which is expiring on December 2017. They have come a number of times to UK and have never ever over stayed.

And it is being night-mere for me to think that they will have to pass the last days of their lives staying away from me. I end of going back and forth to take care of them back to Bangladesh where living my three kids in UK.

I am by birth citizen of UK, me and my husband both work full time, have kids-house have got no problem to accommodate my parents.

My whole life will be upside down if I fail to bring them to me.

AS far as I understand I have got 3 options left:

1: apply for multiple entry before the current visa expires[December 2017]
2: bring them to uk before december 2017 and the apply for FLR
3: apply through surender singh rout

None of them are certain though.

Could any body kindly advice me what can I do. What should be my next course of action???

Thanks in advance
rfaruque

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