Different name order from foreign passsport.

Jgardens8 · Post by **Jgardens8** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:13 pm

I applied for both naturalisation and uk passport via NCS more than a month ago

I received a call from home office today informing me that they cannot issue my naturalisation certificate and also will not send my uk passport application for processing because the name in my foreign passport is diffferent from my application.

In my country, the name in my foreign passport is stated as last name Chinese name, first name. My application says first name Chinese name, last name.

I cannot change my foreign passport as that is how our names are being presented.

Home office have suggested i ask my government to clarify both names are the same. I have tried with my consulate but it was refused. Partly as dual citizenship is not allowed in my country so I will have to give up my current passport first but it will leave me citizenship - less while I wait for uk to confirm my uk citizenship and issue passport.

Has anyone have any similar encounters? Any advice will be greatly appreciated!!!

AdInfernos · Post by **AdInfernos** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:00 pm

This is a guide from the U. S. Immigration where they recognise your country's naming system. Look for Malaysia in page 13.

https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/sites/ ... 0Guide.pdf

Perhaps if you email them the link it will do. If the US knows about it, I wonder why the UK doesn't.

Alternatively perhaps your embassy will be more sympathetic to your request for a letter explainig your passport naming system it you tell them a university has requested it in order to put your correct name on a degree certificate: https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/ ... ny-msians/

thsths · Post by **thsths** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:46 am

Jgardens8 wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:13 pm
In my country, the name in my foreign passport is stated as last name Chinese name, first name. My application says first name Chinese name, last name.

I cannot change my foreign passport as that is how our names are being presented.

It is shocking that the UKBA is ignorant about this, but maybe not surprising, given that they have a long history of getting things wrong.

You might want to ask a lawyer about this, especially if you are considering a radical step such as becoming stateless. Maybe it would be less risky to follow the UKBA procedure for now, and once you have your passport, give up Chinese citizenship and change your name (this is a reasonably easy process in the UK).

Or you could fight the issue, in which case I would recommend writing to your MP about it.

Jgardens8 · Post by **Jgardens8** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:21 pm

Adinfernos and ThsThs, Thank you for your suggestions,

I I was rather appalled at the lack of understanding as well and that they even refused to issue the naturalisation certificate. It was not as if there were any missing names or names of different spelling. and surely, I am not unique in having a different name order vs UK.

I will try asking Home office what else can be done and also try with my consulate again.

Fingers crossed and hope to have good news next time.

ozexpat · Post by **ozexpat** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:02 pm

HO/UKBA/HMPO are not only ignorant about other country's naming conventions but they also don't follow their own policies.

There is also another thread on this forum of a lot of dual nationals who have trouble applying for or renewing their British passport because of differences in names. You might want to take a look there as even if you get your naturalisation certificate issued in the name you prefer they might still have issues with issuing you a passport with a name that's different to your overseas passport. I have a very similar situation to you right now with name orders but it's for a passport renewal - the name order is different in one of my documents from overseas and they insist on the order being changed.

It surprises me that they would be so pedantic about the order of names, especially when there are clear reasons why they are different due to cultural or foreign name order practices.

BUT for a UK applicant who don't happen to be a dual national or have overseas documents, there is not even a requirement for a deed poll to change the order of names: https://www.gov.uk/changing-passport-in ... ames-title
All you need to do is a get a bank statement or some sort of government letter with the new name order and it'd be ok.

Jgardens8 · Post by **Jgardens8** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:01 am

Thanks Ozexpat.

Reading the threads now!

How are you dealing with your situation now / what did the passport office advised you to do?

ozexpat · Post by **ozexpat** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:15 am

No luck. Been asked to change all my documents so they match.

ribena · Post by **ribena** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:50 pm

Jgardens8 ,
Can you please explain further on the name error?

Your Malaysian passport would say : Suname Firstname1 Firstname2 (all in one line).
What did you put on the An form?
In question 1.5, it clearly ask for Surname : which you would put your surname; and in the 'Other names' you would put Firstname1 Firstname2.

Is this not what you have done?

Jgardens8 · Post by **Jgardens8** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:09 pm

Hi Ribena.

In my foreign passport,
Last name first name 1, first name 2. There is a comma between my 2 first names in the foreign passport and HOme office says the commas depict segregation between the first and last names. HO insists they will read the surname as last name first name 1, and the first name as first name 2.

In my application, q1.5
Surname is last name
Other name is first name 2, first name 1. ( not sure I mess up the order but there is no concept of first name / middle name back home)

They actually offered to issue my passport with surname as my last name first name 1 which will cause a mismatch with all my uk records. And it is not my last name!

Jgardens8 · Post by **Jgardens8** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:54 pm

Adfernos

Took your advice and asked my embassy again.
They acceded finally BUT
1) they refused to confirm ‘name cannot be changed’
Instead
2) they confirmed it as
GIVEN NAME: Chinese name, first name
Surname: last name

Anyone think it is going to be an issue with
1) HO / HMPO specifically asked for a letter that says ‘names cannot be changed’especially if i am going to use annex a: use of names in passport paragraph 6.6and reject as it was not explicitly provided.

2) sg ‘confirms’ my name as Chinese name, first name. But I applied as first name, Chinese name. Will there be a chance where hmpo turns around and refuse to issue as my application and ‘confirmed’ name is different

Jgardens8 · Post by **Jgardens8** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:07 pm

Jgardens8 wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:54 pm
Adfernos

Took your advice and asked my embassy again.
They acceded finally BUT
1) they refused to confirm ‘name cannot be changed’
Instead
2) they confirmed it as
GIVEN NAME: Chinese name, first name
Surname: last name

Anyone think it is going to be an issue with
1) HO / HMPO specifically asked for a letter that says ‘names cannot be changed’especially if i am going to use annex a: use of names in passport paragraph 6.6and reject as it was not explicitly provided.

2) embassy confirms’ my name as Chinese name, first name. But I applied as first name, Chinese name. Will there be a chance where hmpo turns around and refuse to issue as my application and ‘confirmed’ name is different

ribena · Post by **ribena** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:02 am

Jgardens8 wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:09 pm
Hi Ribena.

In my foreign passport,
Last name first name 1, first name 2. There is a comma between my 2 first names in the foreign passport and HOme office says the commas depict segregation between the first and last names. HO insists they will read the surname as last name first name 1, and the first name as first name 2.

In my application, q1.5
Surname is last name
Other name is first name 2, first name 1. ( not sure I mess up the order but there is no concept of first name / middle name back home)

They actually offered to issue my passport with surname as my last name first name 1 which will cause a mismatch with all my uk records. And it is not my last name!

Hrm, strange that you have a comma after your firstname1. Never seen or heard on such comma before for a Malaysian Chinese.

This below what is offered by home office??
Surname now Surname firstname1
Firstname1 now firstname2

You filled in the Q1.5 'other names' incorrectly - ie fictional name: Wong (Surname) Tai (Firstname1) Ching (firstname2.).
Surname: Wong
Other names: Tai Ching

I don't know if you are able to change all other uk records using the new passport name...? >.<

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