Refused Universal Credit - help?

Cleo22 · Post by **Cleo22** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:30 pm

Hi there,

I am asking this question for a friend, an EU national. She has been living in this country with her two children, 9 and 3, for some time now and with her partner, who is self-employed. The partner isn't her husband or the father of the children but they have been living as a family and raising the children together. She's worked up until late in 2018, when the children arrived to live with them.

The lady has successfully passed HRT - the so called derivative rights, to protect her children in education. The letter also reads that any such periods do not count towards the 5 year qualifying period needed to acquire permanent right of residence. The letter is dated 31 Dec. 2018.

The next letter n January, also called HRT notification, is telling her that she is not entitled to UC because they
quote, bold theirs

"have decided that you are a jobseeker. For Universal Credit purposes you have a right to reside as a qualified person as defined in Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2016 but that right is excluded for the purposes of awarding Universal Credit.

This means that you are a person who must be treated as not it Great Britain. Therefore, you do not have any entitlement to Universal Credit at this time.

If your circumstances change, you can make a new claim.... " etc.
Unquote

Is this correct - practically, it looks as if the mother won't receive any payments as she is treated as a jobseeker although she can't practically look for a job or work as the child is too young and there are no places even in nurseries so she looks after it and the other child. She explained that but no one seem to be interested. Is there anything that the couple can do? Thanks in advance.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:58 am

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:30 pm
two children, 9 and 3

She's worked up until late in 2018, when the children arrived to live with them.

is treated as a jobseeker although she can't practically look for a job or work as the child is too young

Where have her children been living before they came to to the UK on 2018? Has she looked to see if that country will continue to pay benefits for them in the UK?

She can work, and in the UK she is expected to work when her youngest child is age 1 if she cannot afford to keep her children and needs benefits.

With her youngest at age 3, even on UC UC she will have to go for work experience with a company, go to the job centre when told to to ensure she is looking for work and go to the work providers where they where they will help her look for work and send her on training courses.

Once working, she will might be able to claim some of her childcare costs back from the UK.

If her partner wants to keep her and her children, then there is no need for her to do the aboove.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:23 pm

I'll leave it to somebody else to tell you if she can claim benefits from the UK. But as you can see, on UK benefits they have to work, unless their partner keeps them.

What country does her partner hold citizenship of?

Cleo22 · Post by **Cleo22** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:55 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:58 am
Where have her children been living before they came to to the UK on 2018? Has she looked to see if that country will continue to pay benefits for them in the UK?

She can work, and in the UK she is expected to work when her youngest child is age 1 if she cannot afford to keep her children and needs benefits.

With her youngest at age 3, even on UC UC she will have to go for work experience with a company, go to the job centre when told to to ensure she is looking for work and go to the work providers where they where they will help her look for work and send her on training courses.

Once working, she will might be able to claim some of her childcare costs back from the UK.

If her partner wants to keep her and her children, then there is no need for her to do the aboove.

Thank you for your answer. My question was more about how she can be classified as not living in the UK if she's actually living here. This rule did not apply to the old system of benefits. According to that, when an EU citizen would lose their job, they could register at the Jobcentre and get JSA for 6 months. Now it seems that this lady is unable to get the same level of help until the childcare gets sorted?

She actually wants to work but physically can't work until the child gets a place at the nursery. After that she can only work during school hours anyway - and she can work the amount of hours that she can get childcare for - because not all nurseries provide more than the 3 hours per day...

Can anyone answer if the situation would have been different if she was married to her partner? Both of them are EU citizens, from the same country.

Cleo22 · Post by **Cleo22** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:10 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:58 am
She can work, and in the UK she is expected to work when her youngest child is age 1 if she cannot afford to keep her children and needs benefits.

How about that:

Will I need to look for work to receive Universal Credit?

This will depend on your circumstances.

If you have a child who is under the age of three, you won’t have to find a job, but you will have to prepare for work, which means having regular meetings at the Jobcentre, and possibly doing some training
https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/informat ... al-credit/

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:55 pm

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:10 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:58 am
She can work, and in the UK she is expected to work when her youngest child is age 1 if she cannot afford to keep her children and needs benefits.
How about that:
Will I need to look for work to receive Universal Credit?

This will depend on your circumstances.

If you have a child who is under the age of three, you won’t have to find a job, but you will have to prepare for work, which means having regular meetings at the Jobcentre, and possibly doing some training
https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/informat ... al-credit/

She cannot decide not to work and ask the taxpayers to keep her and her children once her youngest child is age 1.

Her child is age 3 and for benefits, she is expected to work and earn 25 hours a week at the hourly NMW. If she earns that then she us expempt from going to the job centre, training, work providers, work pracitce at a firm etc.

Your quote is for those with a child age under 3, but it is wrong (if that is the full quote) as those who have a child under age 1 do not have to go to the jobcentre or for training.

When she works, she might be able to claim some of her childcare costs from UC.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:06 pm

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:55 pm
My question was more about how she can be classified as not living in the UK if she's actually living here. This rule did not apply to the old system of benefits.

It did, but they never checked before whether they had a right to have UK benefits- and now they do. Even those on benefits on ILR are now being asked to prove their ILR is valid.

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:55 pm
According to that, when an EU citizen would lose their job, they could register at the Jobcentre and get JSA for 6 months. Now it seems that this lady is unable to get the same level of help until the childcare gets sorted?

But she isn't jobseeking.

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:30 pm
She's worked up until late in 2018, when the children arrived to live with them.

Giving up a job and then asking for jobseekers benefits often won't work either, as these can have a sanction for doing that. She could have worked, but chose not to.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:23 pm

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:55 pm
Can anyone answer if the situation would have been different if she was married to her partner? Both of them are EU citizens, from the same country.

With a partner it is a joint claim and if agreed they was entitled to income based benefits from the UK, the requirerment for her to work would still be there, and for him too. He could work and earn her minimum earnings requirement too, as well as his own minimum earnings requirement.

You might be thinking about the old UK benefit system, but those benefits are being replaced by Universal Credit, for existing claimants too. This has been known for years.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:44 pm

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:55 pm

she can only work during school hours anyway - and she can work the amount of hours that she can get childcare for - because not all nurseries provide more than the 3 hours per day...

Or you can work when your partner is at home to - collect your children from school/in the evenings or weekends. That's what parents did a few years ago when they needed more money, as there were no benefits for parents who didn't want to work then.

If you can earn more than the hourly national minimum wage, then you won't have to work 25 hours a week.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:05 pm

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:30 pm
Hi there,

I am asking this question for a friend, an EU national. She has been living in this country with her two children, 9 and 3, for some time now and with her partner, who is self-employed. The partner isn't her husband or the father of the children but they have been living as a family and raising the children together. She's worked up until late in 2018, when the children arrived to live with them.

The lady has successfully passed HRT - the so called derivative rights, to protect her children in education. The letter also reads that any such periods do not count towards the 5 year qualifying period needed to acquire permanent right of residence. The letter is dated 31 Dec. 2018.

The next letter n January, also called HRT notification, is telling her that she is not entitled to UC because they
quote, bold theirs

"have decided that you are a jobseeker. For Universal Credit purposes you have a right to reside as a qualified person as defined in Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2016 but that right is excluded for the purposes of awarding Universal Credit.

This means that you are a person who must be treated as not it Great Britain. Therefore, you do not have any entitlement to Universal Credit at this time.

If your circumstances change, you can make a new claim.... " etc.
Unquote

Is this correct - practically, it looks as if the mother won't receive any payments as she is treated as a jobseeker although she can't practically look for a job or work as the child is too young and there are no places even in nurseries so she looks after it and the other child. She explained that but no one seem to be interested. Is there anything that the couple can do? Thanks in advance.

Are you saying that you tried to claim benefits as a single person, when you have a partner in your household?

Cleo22 · Post by **Cleo22** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:08 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:05 pm

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:30 pm
Hi there,

I am asking this question for a friend, an EU national. She has been living in this country with her two children, 9 and 3, for some time now and with her partner, who is self-employed. The partner isn't her husband or the father of the children but they have been living as a family and raising the children together. She's worked up until late in 2018, when the children arrived to live with them.

The lady has successfully passed HRT - the so called derivative rights, to protect her children in education. The letter also reads that any such periods do not count towards the 5 year qualifying period needed to acquire permanent right of residence. The letter is dated 31 Dec. 2018.

The next letter n January, also called HRT notification, is telling her that she is not entitled to UC because they
quote, bold theirs

"have decided that you are a jobseeker. For Universal Credit purposes you have a right to reside as a qualified person as defined in Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2016 but that right is excluded for the purposes of awarding Universal Credit.

This means that you are a person who must be treated as not it Great Britain. Therefore, you do not have any entitlement to Universal Credit at this time.

If your circumstances change, you can make a new claim.... " etc.
Unquote

Is this correct - practically, it looks as if the mother won't receive any payments as she is treated as a jobseeker although she can't practically look for a job or work as the child is too young and there are no places even in nurseries so she looks after it and the other child. She explained that but no one seem to be interested. Is there anything that the couple can do? Thanks in advance.
Are you saying that you tried to claim benefits as a single person, when you have a partner in your household?

Of course not.
First of all, it's about my friend. I am a British citizen myself and I don't claim benefits.

Secondly - no. Please read the beginning of my post you've quoted. They claim as a couple.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:22 am

Cleo22 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:30 pm
The lady has successfully passed HRT - the so called derivative rights, to protect her children in education. The letter also reads that any such periods do not count towards the 5 year qualifying period needed to acquire permanent right of residence. The letter is dated 31 Dec. 2018.

Unless the law say that those on Derived rights don't have to work in UK and can have benefits from the UK, I'm not sure what she can do.

As you are a British citizen, you will know you can't give up your job and ask benefits instead - there is a sanction for doing that. Plus with children of that age you would work, and that is the same with low income benefits - with children of that age she needs to be working. If her partner can keep her then she won't need benefits and can choose not to work.

What 's the immigration status of her partner? Although you woudl have to ask on the EU board if she can use him to claim some benefits, but that still wouldn't change the fact that she is expected to work with children of that age, iof she wants UK benefits.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:12 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:58 am
Where have her children been living before they came to to the UK on 2018? Has she looked to see if that country will continue to pay benefits for them in the UK?

Has you friend looked into the above?

The UK would not pay low income benefits to a British citizen who went to live in another country for their childrens education, but perhaps you friends EEA country will?

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Refused Universal Credit - help?

Refused Universal Credit - help?

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