Settled status application without passport

freeflow · Post by **freeflow** » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:08 am

Hi
I am just looking for some opinion or experiences so I can prepare my mind.
I moved to the UK in 1982 from Germany
I have applied for settled status by paper application last year October over 7month ago, but they still have not reached a decision yet. The reason I applied by paper was, that back in 2014 the home office had my German identity card, which had expired in 1987, they then send my identity card back to the embassy instead of sending it back to me as it had expired.
This the left me with no passport or identity card for id for settled status, so I applied using my driving licence stating they have seen my identity card and proving that fact to them with a home office letter, where they stated it had been sent back to the embassy.
The German embassy is being incredibly difficult in helping to get a new passport or identity card, saying they want 2 affidavits from 2 people who have known me by my birth name for 5 years, then one official person who can verify my id, who has known me for 2 years. The problem is I changed my name in the 80 s to an English spelling one and my driving licence is in that name and most people only know me by that name. People who know me by my German name, I have lost touch with years ago.
So embassy refusing to issue a passport, even with my birth certificate, so what happens if they refuse settled status because I have not provided a passport or identity card?
Can I be deported without an identity card or passport, apparently they can’t, they then would have to prove to the embassy that I am German, doing the work for me which I see no hope in doing myself, and therefore would it not then automatically proven that I am German/EU citizen so refusal of settled status would not be right and legal, because then I fulfilled, in the end, the reason for the refusal?

alterhase58 · Post by **alterhase58** » Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:33 pm

I very much doubt there a many (any?) members here who have issues which are similar to yours, so it's difficult to give any advice.
It seems there are two separate points to be addressed:

1) irrespective of your settled status application you need to somehow "regularise" your German paperwork (passport) - at some stage you will have to produce this in the UK and it could lead to complications for you.

2) your settled status application: I doubt UKVI will help you out by taking your case to the German authorities even if they have made a mistake. It's generally down to the applicant to prove status (EU citizen). As a contributor here once said, the Home Office is not your friend or good neighbour, unfortunately. Note that in the new immigration bill proposals EU citizens will be treated the same as every other migrant without much or any recourse to EU regulations.

Probably professional legal advice is advisable, certainly for 1) and maybe for 2).

freeflow · Post by **freeflow** » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:09 pm

" I doubt UKVI will help you out by taking your case to the German authorities even if they have made a mistake."

If they want to deport somebody a solicitor told me, they the home office, has to prove to the country they want to deport the person to, is a national of that country, without a passport it is difficult, especially in my case with 2 names one being British, a British driving licence, that is why the embassy is not wanting to issue a passport, so the home office has a lot of work on their hands according to the solicitor.so if they do not they can not deport, but they do nationalty would be proven.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:54 pm

freeflow wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:09 pm
If they want to deport somebody a solicitor told me, they the home office, has to prove to the country they want to deport the person to, is a national of that country, without a passport it is difficult, especially in my case with 2 names one being British, a British driving licence, that is why the embassy is not wanting to issue a passport, so the home office has a lot of work on their hands according to the solicitor.so if they do not they can not deport, but they do nationalty would be proven.

Are you talking about the UK being able to deport EU criminals from January 2021 (as they already do with non-EU citizens) who have been sentenced to 1 year or more in jail?
This policy was revealed in post-Brexit immigration plans, which will toughen the requirement that “those already in the UK who are sentenced to 12 months or more in prison must be considered for deportation”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 18476.html

Wouldn't the UK already have all your details?
https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... l#p1816141

https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... l#p1465897

ALKB · Post by **ALKB** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:25 am

freeflow wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:08 am
Hi
I am just looking for some opinion or experiences so I can prepare my mind.
I moved to the UK in 1982 from Germany
I have applied for settled status by paper application last year October over 7month ago, but they still have not reached a decision yet. The reason I applied by paper was, that back in 2014 the home office had my German identity card, which had expired in 1987, they then send my identity card back to the embassy instead of sending it back to me as it had expired.
This the left me with no passport or identity card for id for settled status, so I applied using my driving licence stating they have seen my identity card and proving that fact to them with a home office letter, where they stated it had been sent back to the embassy.
The German embassy is being incredibly difficult in helping to get a new passport or identity card, saying they want 2 affidavits from 2 people who have known me by my birth name for 5 years, then one official person who can verify my id, who has known me for 2 years. The problem is I changed my name in the 80 s to an English spelling one and my driving licence is in that name and most people only know me by that name. People who know me by my German name, I have lost touch with years ago.
So embassy refusing to issue a passport, even with my birth certificate, so what happens if they refuse settled status because I have not provided a passport or identity card?
Can I be deported without an identity card or passport, apparently they can’t, they then would have to prove to the embassy that I am German, doing the work for me which I see no hope in doing myself, and therefore would it not then automatically proven that I am German/EU citizen so refusal of settled status would not be right and legal, because then I fulfilled, in the end, the reason for the refusal?

When you say you changed your name to an English spelling, do you mean that you took your wife's name after marriage or that you just made up a new name?

freeflow · Post by **freeflow** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:22 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:54 pm

freeflow wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:09 pm
If they want to deport somebody a solicitor told me, they the home office, has to prove to the country they want to deport the person to, is a national of that country, without a passport it is difficult, especially in my case with 2 names one being British, a British driving licence, that is why the embassy is not wanting to issue a passport, so the home office has a lot of work on their hands according to the solicitor.so if they do not they can not deport, but they do nationalty would be proven.
Are you talking about the UK being able to deport EU criminals from January 2021 (as they already do with non-EU citizens) who have been sentenced to 1 year or more in jail?
This policy was revealed in post-Brexit immigration plans, which will toughen the requirement that “those already in the UK who are sentenced to 12 months or more in prison must be considered for deportation”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 18476.html

Wouldn't the UK already have all your details?
https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... l#p1816141

https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... l#p1465897

No not at al
Yes they have all my details, yes they have acknowledged my nationality, but my solicitor who i am waiting for a reply to for answers stated that, if the home office is stubborn, they can insist on me providing a passport or id card, i can not get one because the embassy told me, by email, what they want from me, to provide a passport, eg photo id in my german name and 2 affidavits of people who have known me for 5 years in my german name. i do not have people like this i am a recluse for now 8 years, so i can not get a passport, i changed my name by deed poll which is a legal document, but embassy does not recognize this.
So again my simple question, they insist on passport, they refuse settled status, they try to deport me for failing to get settled status and provide a passport, then they apparently have to prove to the German embassy that I am a German(remember i have no german name no german documents no german connection), so if this is true by the time they proved this they can not deport me any more because settled regulation states that you have to prove nationality and that has happened as they proofed it to the embassy.
OR can they deport ordinary citizens without a reason, without a passport to a country, what if that person pretends to be swiss Belgium Austrian for failing to proof nationality? they what just accept any body?

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:11 am

freeflow wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:22 am

So again my simple question, they insist on passport, they refuse settled status, they try to deport me for failing to get settled status and provide a passport, then they apparently have to prove to the German embassy that I am a German(remember i have no german name no german documents no german connection), so if this is true by the time they proved this they can not deport me any more because settled regulation states that you have to prove nationality and that has happened as they proofed it to the embassy.

As you are an EU citizen living on benefits from another EEA country, isn't the proof on you to prove you are a German citizen - with the EU's Right to Reside as you are exercising treaty rights or have got PR? From 2021, only Settled Status can have UK benefits.

If as you say, you can't work, then how will you survive without another EEA country giving you benefits if you can't prove you are German? How will you be able to use the NHS, rent a property, drive in the UK etc?

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:21 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:11 am
As you are an EU citizen living on benefits from another EEA country, isn't the proof on you to prove you are a German citizen - with the EU's Right to Reside as you are exercising treaty rights or have got PR? From 2021, only Settled Status can have UK benefits.

If as you say, you can't work, then how will you survive without another EEA country giving you benefits if you can't prove you are German? How will you be able to use the NHS, rent a property, drive in the UK etc?

You appear to be worried about being deported if the UK can prove you are German? But now that the UK has left the EU, how will you survive in the UK if you can't prove you are a German citizen?

freeflow · Post by **freeflow** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:21 am

useless answers

freeflow · Post by **freeflow** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:34 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:11 am

freeflow wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:22 am

So again my simple question, they insist on passport, they refuse settled status, they try to deport me for failing to get settled status and provide a passport, then they apparently have to prove to the German embassy that I am a German(remember i have no german name no german documents no german connection), so if this is true by the time they proved this they can not deport me any more because settled regulation states that you have to prove nationality and that has happened as they proofed it to the embassy.
As you are an EU citizen living on benefits from another EEA country, isn't the proof on you to prove you are a German citizen - with the EU's Right to Reside as you are exercising treaty rights or have got PR? From 2021, only Settled Status can have UK benefits.

If as you say, you can't work, then how will you survive without another EEA country giving you benefits if you can't prove you are German? How will you be able to use the NHS, rent a property, drive in the UK etc?

I am a carer, that is how I am supported all I would loose is carer allowance £67.25 a week
the question how to force the government to accept alternative id as they can at there discretion, also what steps do they have to take to deport an EU citizen after July 2021 without a passport, if you can not answer that you are not knowledge enough and therefore do not bother replying, only looking for answers from people who know about deportation laws.

THO · Post by **THO** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:37 am

When you changed your name by deed-pole, surely there was paperwork completed that you should have a copy of? Don't you have a document that shows your original name before you changed it, and what you changed it to? If not this must exist somewhere in the records of whatever office you filled the application in, and so get a copy of that, provide it with your birth certificate?

freeflow · Post by **freeflow** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:47 am

THO wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:37 am
When you changed your name by deed-pole, surely there was paperwork completed that you should have a copy of? Don't you have a document that shows your original name before you changed it, and what you changed it to? If not this must exist somewhere in the records of whatever office you filled the application in, and so get a copy of that, provide it with your birth certificate?

Yes I got that document, the embassy will not accept it for prove, only what I already stated, the put this in writing what the only things they accept. the home office can at their discretion but do not have to and my question is what happens if they do not accept it and refuse settled status, how can they deport without me having proof of my nationality?

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:22 am

freeflow wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:34 am
I am a carer, that is how I am supported all I would loose is carer allowance £67.25 a week
the question how to force the government to accept alternative id as they can at there discretion, also what steps do they have to take to deport an EU citizen after July 2021 without a passport, if you can not answer that you are not knowledge enough and therefore do not bother replying, only looking for answers from people who know about deportation laws.

It's true that i don't have the answers on how to make the UK give you Settled Status as an EEA citizen, when you can't or won't give them evidence that you are a German citizen. I was merley asking how you would survive in the UK from 2021 without legal status?

The Immigration Acts 2014 and 2016, have made it virtually impossible for those illegaly in the UK to survive. As stated in above posts, it's not just your access to UK benefits that will be lost, but under these laws you won't be able to rent, work, drive in the UK, use the NHS without paying unless that service is free.

ALKB · Post by **ALKB** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:20 pm

freeflow wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:47 am

THO wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:37 am
When you changed your name by deed-pole, surely there was paperwork completed that you should have a copy of? Don't you have a document that shows your original name before you changed it, and what you changed it to? If not this must exist somewhere in the records of whatever office you filled the application in, and so get a copy of that, provide it with your birth certificate?
Yes I got that document, the embassy will not accept it for prove, only what I already stated, the put this in writing what the only things they accept. the home office can at their discretion but do not have to and my question is what happens if they do not accept it and refuse settled status, how can they deport without me having proof of my nationality?

Have they actually threatened deportation?

The UK is quite fond of using removal centres to motivate people who can't prove their nationality, but I doubt that HO would be that interested in getting rid of you.

What about applying for a certificate of citizenship?

https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/citizenshi ... itizenship

freeflow · Post by **freeflow** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:43 am

ALKB wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:20 pm

freeflow wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:47 am

THO wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:37 am
When you changed your name by deed-pole, surely there was paperwork completed that you should have a copy of? Don't you have a document that shows your original name before you changed it, and what you changed it to? If not this must exist somewhere in the records of whatever office you filled the application in, and so get a copy of that, provide it with your birth certificate?
Yes I got that document, the embassy will not accept it for prove, only what I already stated, the put this in writing what the only things they accept. the home office can at their discretion but do not have to and my question is what happens if they do not accept it and refuse settled status, how can they deport without me having proof of my nationality?
Have they actually threatened deportation?

The UK is quite fond of using removal centres to motivate people who can't prove their nationality, but I doubt that HO would be that interested in getting rid of you.

What about applying for a certificate of citizenship?

https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/citizenshi ... itizenship

Thanks, it may be what the embassy is doing anyway, but look into it.

ALKB · Post by **ALKB** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:54 am

freeflow wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:43 am

ALKB wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:20 pm

freeflow wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:47 am

THO wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:37 am
When you changed your name by deed-pole, surely there was paperwork completed that you should have a copy of? Don't you have a document that shows your original name before you changed it, and what you changed it to? If not this must exist somewhere in the records of whatever office you filled the application in, and so get a copy of that, provide it with your birth certificate?
Yes I got that document, the embassy will not accept it for prove, only what I already stated, the put this in writing what the only things they accept. the home office can at their discretion but do not have to and my question is what happens if they do not accept it and refuse settled status, how can they deport without me having proof of my nationality?
Have they actually threatened deportation?

The UK is quite fond of using removal centres to motivate people who can't prove their nationality, but I doubt that HO would be that interested in getting rid of you.

What about applying for a certificate of citizenship?

https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/citizenshi ... itizenship
Thanks, it may be what the embassy is doing anyway, but look into it.

The Embassy will not act without application, it's not a situation that would allow them to act 'von Amts wegen'.

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