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THIS IS AN EMERGENCY, I NEED HELP AND ADVISE GOING TO THE UK

General UK immigration & work permits; don't post job search or family related topics!

Please use this section of the board if there is no specific section for your query.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

brownbonno
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Post by brownbonno » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:25 pm

charles4u wrote:
John wrote:
charles4u wrote:the fact that its 30% possible and 70% not possible
That is far too optimistic! Personally I would put your chances are say 1% possible and 99% not possible.

Above you are getting very good advice about what documents you should present at Luton Airport, should you make it that far.
Thank u and I will have that in mind as I said earlier. So Brownbonno I was refering to my main nigerian passport that I used in applying for the EEA, its was dated that I made an application and normally the visa should be placed on it but unfortunately not.
The remark on your passport is no relevance.If you make your way to the point of entry,you will be allowed in.
Knowledge is Power

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:35 pm

Thank you and hopefully what u said comes true, Just wish to have more idea on what to expect from Wizzair.
Charles4u

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Frontier Mole
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Post by Frontier Mole » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:23 pm

A couple of points to note:
Even if you are not immediately turned around and stuck back on the next plane to ROM, your partner will not be allowed entry to the immigration control as your post suggests. They are not going to interview her and say everything is ok you can come in! They do not care what she has to say for herself. The only point of interest will be the fact you do not have a valid entry to the UK.
Your passport will no doubt have a nice UK immigration / ECO date stamp in it with a line through it. It will also show up on the passport reader to state you have been refused entry. So a visual inspection will show that you had a recent refusal and the reader will throw up your entire history. One way or the other your passport will scream at the IO.
You also have a Nigerian passport, which in itself, coming off a European flight sets bells ringing. You might as well paint a target on your head and add a few flashing lights for good measure.

Well you can not say you have not been warned. Whatever happens it will make for interesting reading one way or the other.......

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:24 am

Your words gets me so scared I even feel like going tomorrow to face all once and for all but I guess I have to wait till friday and friend try to be a bit understanding instead of talking or thinking like the same senseless british well u r all of the same blood. I dont care if am turned back atleast am not coming back here to die...Let them put whatever they want on my passport I dont mind infact I will ask to do it b4 they think of doing it.

I will get another passport in just one week thank God to the black man country of human understanding!!! So thx bro for ur advise and I will have all in mind or to make it more perfect you can come to the airport to make complain saying I shouldnt be let in no-matter what I prove and its also good to know from your speech saying they wont give my wife the chance to talk..( guys u all can read what he said with the british they way they are breaking the law with confidence).

Anyway whatever happens ..happens ..shits always happen and I dont care as all this is just for some time and thank God after the whole stress we will all die someday to atleast rest and be reliefed from immigration problem.
Charles4u

John
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Post by John » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:58 am

I will get another passport in just one week
You really think that will make any difference? Absolutely none.

Rather than all this "ducking and diving", go and find out the reason for the refusal, and then work out how you are going to deals with that reason)s).
John

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:57 am

Reading some of these posts I get the impression this forum has been infiltrated by the Border Agency. Are we here to help family members or are we here just to repeat ad nauseam:

family members need EEA FP family members need EEA FP family members need EEA FP family members need EEA FP family members need EEA FP family members need EEA FP family members need EEA FP family members need EEA FP and so on?

I remind you that in case of faulty transposition of an European Directive by national legislation, the Directive takes precedence. Even the UK acknowledges that.

Having said that, I do believe, Charles now you have a problem with his passport, in that entry has been refused. It would have been better if you had never asked for it! I believe the best course of action is to find out why it was refused and to appeal. You now have concrete proof the UK does not honour the Directive.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

John
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Post by John » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:47 am

Reading some of these posts I get the impression this forum has been infiltrated by the Border Agency. Are we here to help family members or are we here just to repeat ad nauseam:
I feel the need to respond to that. Personally I am very happy that some UKBA staff now contribute here. They bring a lot to this Board. However all they do is bring an opinion to this Board, like every other member who posts. And that is of course all they can do, given that if UKBA got it right every time then there would be no need for the huge number of Court Cases arising from the interpretation of legislation by UKBA (or a predecessor).
I remind you that in case of faulty transposition of an European Directive by national legislation, the Directive takes precedence. Even the UK acknowledges that.
Indeed correct, that is correct that there is faulty transposition, and also correct that this is effectively acknowledged by the UKBA staff instructions, a link to which I have already provided in this topic.

UKBA staff ... please keep posting!
John

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:23 am

I am very happy that some UKBA staff now contribute here. They bring a lot to this Board.
Ho, John! I had written that as a half joke. I did not realise the UKBa actually was adding to the forum. I just feel this should be made clear. It is obvious (to me at least) that their opinions will necessarily be those of their employers.
Indeed correct, that is correct that there is faulty transposition, and also correct that this is effectively acknowledged by the UKBA staff instructions, a link to which I have already provided in this topic.
If this is the case, why do they not change the legislation?

The answer is simple: by acknowledging that family members can enter if they can prove their status at the port of entry is all very fine, provided an almost unsurmountable barrier has been erected to stop this family member from reaching the port of entry. This is called an EEA FP and it is not Immigration that denies the family member entry: it is the carrier. This way they can say they do not deny family members rights.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

John
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Post by John » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:44 am

...... provided an almost unsurmountable barrier has been erected to stop this family member from reaching the port of entry
Only for visa nationals. It provides no barrier at all to non-visa nationals who, if only they knew of the UKBA staff instructions, might not bother to apply for an EEA Family Permit.
John

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:04 pm

Thats good to know there are some UKBA staffs here maybe they will atleast read people complains and know there rights that its unlawful with the EEA family permit, We can all see Ireland no longer requires visa for family members with a family member card.

I dont still know if I should try or better just lay back as my wife is already making transfer to Ireland from her contract company, What do you guy suggest?
Charles4u

John
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Post by John » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:43 pm

What do you guy suggest?
I suggest you tell us the reason(s) for refusal, now you have presumably been to the British Embassy?
John

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:02 pm


The evidence that the Entry Clearance Officer has taken into account


In order to reach a decision, I have taken into account:
Your completed application form
Your passport and the original documents that you provided
Marriage certificate dated 29/05/2008.
Ticket booking to London
Evidence of wife’s employment in the UK
Wife’s tenancy document
Wife’s contract with Healthcare Homes
Id card for wife
Wife’s Home Office registration dated 11 September 2008 (as a student)
Copy of wife’s passport
Your residence card for Romania valid until 2013
Pay-slips for wife
Bank statements for wife
Telephone bills purportedly for wife in UK (no client name)
Telephone bills for calls to Malaysia (client name DAVL MARIO)
Confirmation of pregnancy of wife received on 23/10/2008 from doctors in the UK


The Entry Clearance Officer’s decision
You have applied for admission to the United Kingdom by virtue of European Community Law as the family member of a European Economic Area national who is exercising, or wishes to exercise, rights of free movement under the Treaty of Rome in the United Kingdom.

I have refused your EEA family permit application on this occasion because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of Regulation 12 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006. This decision will not prejudice any future UK visa or EEA family permit application that you make.


The Entry Clearance Officer’s reasons and supporting evidence
You have applied for an EEA Family Permit in order to join your wife in the UK.


Having seen the marriage certificate and your wife’s passport, I am satisfied that you
are legally married to an EU national. You have submitted evidence that your wife is currently in the UK and that she is registered as a student with Home Office. The letter she was issued by Home Office shows that she is allowed to work up to 20 hours per week. She is also working at a care home working 40 hours a week. It is unclear whether this is permissible. However, I am aware that students on sandwich courses may work for longer than 20 hours per week during the work placement only, so on the balance of probability I am satisfied that your wife is a qualified person.

However, you applied for an EEA family permit previously at this Embassy on 09/06/2008 and that application was refused as the entry clearance officer was not satisfied that you were not a party to a marriage of convenience. You have appealed against this decision and the appeal has yet to be heard.

You were a student in Malaysia before you came to Romania. You and your wife claim to have started telephoning each other from August 2007 on the recommendation of a Nigerian national who had met your wife whilst he was on a business trip to Romanian. You met for the first time when she travelled to Malaysia to meet you in March 2008. She spent from 12 March to 03 April in Malaysia. You obtained a visa for Romania as a visitor valid for 65 days, arrived in Romania on 29/04/2008 and married on 29/05/08. You applied for an EEA family permit less than two weeks later. You both say you decided to marry as soon as the early meeting in March . When interviewed for the previous visa, you gave contradictory statements as to the development of the relationship, and were vague about each other.

You do not appear settled either in Nigeria, in Malaysia where it is unclear whether you actually completed your studies, or in Romania where you are unemployed. I note that you have been refused a visa for the USA as well as the UK previously. You have been in Romania since 29 May but your wife left on 10 June 2008. You have therefore spent only a short time together before and after the marriage. You have no income of your own but claim to receive funds from your parents. You have never provided any evidence to show that is the case. Your wife has voluntarily submitted her recent bank statements and these show that your wife is just able to support herself. On this occasion you have provided some additional information in the form of telephone bills showing calls made from Romania to Malaysia and calls from the UK to Romania. However, there are no details on the UK bills of the client’s name and the Romanian accounts show the client as Mario Daul. I am not satisfied that these calls in themselves demonstrate that you have a close relationship.

Given the speed of this marriage, the description of the circumstances in which you claim to have met and the lack of knowledge of each other, previous discrepancies in your accounts and your overall social and economic conditions, I am not satisfied that you are not a party to a marriage of convenience and that this marriage was not entered into solely to secure entry to the United Kingdom.

Since you made the initial application, your wife has submitted evidence that she is now pregnant. I have taken this into consideration and have also given consideration to your rights under the Human Rights Act. Whilst I fully appreciate that there may be a perceived interference with your rights under Article 8, I am satisfied that no breach has occurred as I am not satisfied that this is a marriage of convenience.

I therefore refuse your application.


MY OWN EXPLAINATION

All this things is pure lies and unlawful, I first completed my course in Malaysia as its just a 6months program which I explained to her at first but this time around they didnt even interview me but in my application I requested for an interview, my wife gets abt 1500pounds monthly and they said she can only support herself, I get support from my parent and they said no prove for that ..I guess I should have added the western unoin slip.

Is it a crime to meet and get married anytime we feel like, or just because of the UK we must spend 5 yrs b4 we get married?...They also said I didnt settle anywhere not even in my country ..men this britishs are so funny and stupid, Do they expect me to stay in malaysia when I was there for studies and I just wanna go to the UK to join her since she is working and staying there after all they dont expect me to stay here while she stays there.

I applied for the UK when I got to Romania bcus she had her contract already then and I proved this to them on the date she signed her contract was even b4 I came to Romania, I dont see why we can get married 5 days after we meet and how does this affect visa. Yes I was refused usa visa b4 and that was 2006 but how does this affect going to join my wife in the UK? They should have also said I was in Singapore 4 times cus I was always going there to buy some electronics and send them to Nigeria but I guess they dont have to say I was there but they could talk abt USA refusal....Talking abt phone call bills ..they said no clients name from UK but they didnt call the number to comfirm if it is was her or not (is this our fault for not having the client's name, it was directly from MY3 and its a contract line and they can just call this company to comfirm why it doesnt have the clients name), and the one from Romania they also said it was another name, but this shows the same number am using in Romania now which they called me on themself. This romania number was a contract from her employer so she was given to use so she calls me from it..simple!!! but must it have her name of the bill????? or they wanna verify they calls we made.

Men ...this is serious than I think and I guess I dont qualify going to the UK as we lack knowledge of knowing each other as they said but how can we when we dont even have the chance of living together as a family.
Charles4u

Mr Rusty
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Post by Mr Rusty » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:59 pm

I find myself wondering whether you really want to resolve your case or whether you are just seeking confrontation.
You applied, were refused, appealed, and have in the meantime have been refused again. If you succeed in arriving in the UK the Border Control officers will quite reasonably take the view that they don't have to consider your case because it's been considered twice already and you still have an opportunity to appeal. They'll put you straight back on the plane. If you resist you'll be locked up and then go back between two fit gents who are slightly too large for their blazers. When you get back to Bucharest the Romanians might decide that you've no good reason to stay there and put you on a plane to Lagos.
That's if you succeed in getting on a plane at all. It's quite common within Europe for the carrier to phone up the Immigration Office at the destination when they're not sure what to do. And the answer they'll get is obvious.
So calm down, and wait for your appeal.

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:02 pm

Well, Charles, Italy is pretty relaxed in comparison with the UK, but marriage after 5 days to someone you only actually were with for three weeks. After 5 days of a second meeting... Marriage! Even here you would be in the soup, because they probably would not even have given you the residence card and risked deportation, as you only lived together for 5 days.

Look at it from outside, Charles, Would you not view this in an odd light?

Before you tell me I am prejudiced, let me tell you our story.

We met at for 14 days. Then she returned for 3 months and we married wo days into the 4th month. We wanted to go to the UK 2 weeks after the marriage. This was over a year ago and now we are expecting our first baby.

Had my wife applied, I am dead sure she would be refused and our marriage declared one of convenience.

I hope you understand what I'm driving at.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:06 pm

Well maybe u r right and I should think twice, Thx for ur advise. But why is it taking them so long to get it solved but as u can see am I faulty in all this or they r just being unlawful and unfair ?

I will even 4get abt UK and dont need going there any more, its just my wifes course in the UK, she cant be coming to romania every month and I cant go there eithert cus of EEA? then what should we do? stay apart for another 7-8 months or?
Charles4u

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:17 pm

It's quite common within Europe for the carrier to phone up the Immigration Office at the destination when they're not sure what to do.
I wish this were true!
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:19 pm

What do you mean, it is taking so long? We are in limbo for over a year and you say 1 month is long.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:20 pm

Richard surely it will be surely a convinience to them as they want couples to live together for yrs b4 getting married but in Africa we dont do this...u cant live with ur spouse if u r not married(not even allowed to F**K) according to our culture and traditional believe which is somehow helping us as u all know african countries like Nigeria dont have so much of breakup families or high divorced rate like here in Europe.

Its a good saying Richard, so what do we do concerning all this issues? pregnant wife,schooling and working contract,husband unable to go to UK. Family members r in soup in Europe I guess..well am starting to just stop my plans going to UK as my wife is just tired of the whole stress and just dont mind cancelling all in the UK.
Charles4u

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:20 pm

Had my wife applied, I am dead sure she would be refused and our marriage declared one of convenience.
I forgot to add, she is 10 years and 6 months younger than I.
Last edited by Richard66 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:25 pm

Cus I didnt hear or get anything from them..just waiting as u can see what the embassy said also ..havent heard anything and I have made this apeal since june.

Can I join this refusal to my first apeal or its on its own seperate refusal I have to make its own apeal.?
Charles4u

freon21
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Post by freon21 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:47 pm

Charles after reading your last posts I can only agree with others and would advise you to step back and wait for the appeal and try to get as much evidence to show that is a genuine marriage.With your wife being pregnant I am sure that the judge won t hesitate and rule in your favor.
Patience is safer.
GOOD LUCK .

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:58 pm

Thx so much and I will take note of u guys opinions, and by the way the law as being amended by the european union for family members on there rights of free movement but I dont get it clearly if its basically for ireland alone of within the EU as it says anybody that as being refused in any way from 2006-2008 can re apply for there applications again.

So probably its true family members dont need a visa for Ireland any longer.

Regulation 3(2) of the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006 was amended on 31 July 2008 by S.I. No. 310 of 2008, European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (Amendment) Regulations 2008.
Charles4u

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:26 pm

This is what Charles is talking about:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI%20310 ... 202008.pdf

It only made off with the part about previously being lawfully resident in another EEA state prior to travelling to Ireland.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

freon21
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Post by freon21 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:38 pm

What Charles is quoting is the compliance from the irish govt of ECJ determination of that particular case law .
Good thing ,there is an improvement a lot has to come more ECJ cases would probably be required in order toget full implementation of EU law in national law.
Getting there......or not

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:30 pm

You are right Richard and this is the direct link from the EU with those who made the complains and the direct written statements from the ECJ.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 27:EN:HTML

They made some points clear there like entry clearance is needed on this type of occation...A Russian lawfully married to a German but live or residing in Russia(An entry clearance is needed).....But in the case where they are living in Germany and the spouse is in possession of a residence that shows he or she is a family member(This is equivalent to visa so no entry clearance is needed).

This is what I understand but this statement and u can all read it below...

52
In particular, the first subparagraph of Article 5(2) of Directive 2004/38 provides that nationals of non-member countries who are family members of a Union citizen are required to have an entry visa, unless they are in possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 of that directive. In that, as follows from Articles 9(1) and 10(1) of Directive 2004/38, the residence card is the document that evidences the right of residence for more than three months in a Member State of the family members of a Union citizen who are not nationals of a Member State, the fact that Article 5(2) provides for the entry into the host Member State of family members of a Union citizen who do not have a residence card shows that Directive 2004/38 is capable of applying also to family members who were not already lawfully resident in another Member State.


So what are we saying and why so much stress and problem from this UK, if my wife is admitted tomorrow, what should I do? wait for EEA? Anyway I will step back as u guy said and my wifes opinion too as she reads everything u guys wrote here and that made her scared a little.
Charles4u

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