Retirement age couple with child

Father British Citizen UK Born, UK passport, Assets, Pension income. Family House Owned No Mortgage, Less than 1k GBP family savings. age near 70
Wife Chinese born, Hong Kong Passport age near 60. Not BNO eligible
Daughter 12yrs old, Born Hong Kong eligible for UK passport

All regular visa schemes seem to cater for younger employed / employable couples with large savings as net worth and employment in UK.

Most people we talk to expect me and the family to be able to retire to the UK and send our daughter to school there as a normal family. The UN rights of the child legislation says the child has a right to be with their parents too but lazy immigration "specialists" looking for profit and the easy to find UK Visa info always pushes us back to the spousal visa. Its all about "money in the bank" as assets. Sell your house and then after 3 months apply, is often stated. This is not a course we want to take.

Our property is valued at around 500K GBP so we have plenty of assets available to buy a house, send our daughter to school and our pension is sufficient for daily living, but is does not compute to the UK Immg algorithm.

Advice on a solution path is sort.

Did she fail HK 4.1.?

The applicant must be a British National (Overseas) under the Hong Kong (British Nationality) Order 1986.

Without income, they also require cash savings requirement of at least £62,500, unless you are receiving certain benefits.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:17 am

our pension is sufficient for daily living, but is does not compute to the UK Immg algorithm.

Even if you don't have any cash savings provided you and your wife have a combined pension income of £18,600 she would meet the financial requirement for a spouse visa.

Also bear in mind that it is doubtful that this level of income would be sufficient to cover the cost of living at a reasonable standard for a family of 3 in the UK in 2022.

Thank you for your reply and if I need more that 18.6k to live basically there is no hope for half the planet and pensioners everywhere.

Also I am really not interested in going down the spouse visa route. I know it inside out and it is not designed for our age group and situation.

Unfortunately.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:17 am

Daughter 12yrs old, Born Hong Kong eligible for UK passport

On a sidenote, if your daughter plans to go to a university in England or Scotland (rules for the other home nations differ), be aware that to qualify for Home Student status and student financing, she must be resident in the UK for the three years preceding the first day of the first year of the course.This requirement applies to British citizens and their children as well.

So, if she plans to study here, the window for her to move here would be the next year or so.

See also Home or Overseas fees: the basics.

Didn't know that. Good to know. Thanks

manci wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:11 pm

Also bear in mind that it is doubtful that this level of income would be sufficient to cover the cost of living at a reasonable standard for a family of 3 in the UK in 2022.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:41 pm

Thank you for your reply and if I need more that 18.6k to live basically there is no hope for half the planet and pensioners everywhere.

I agree with manci: trying to live on less than 18,600 for three of you will be struggle in the UK. Also bear in mind that your wife in her 50s, is not retirement age in the UK.
e.g. For those of low income, there is the welfare benefit called Universal Credit, but there is a rule for mixed age couples. The younger partner (below UK state pension age) has to work and keep their pensioner partner and their children; while the pensions reduce the amount of Universal Credit paid £ for £.

Returning Brits also need a 5 month savings buffer as they cannot claim for 3 months and it takes another 5 plus weeks for UC to start as it also pays in arrears.

However, savings and capital from £16,000, in any country, is too much to have Universal Credit. That capital includes property that is owned but not lived in.

JB007 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:50 pm

manci wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:11 pm

Also bear in mind that it is doubtful that this level of income would be sufficient to cover the cost of living at a reasonable standard for a family of 3 in the UK in 2022.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:41 pm

Thank you for your reply and if I need more that 18.6k to live basically there is no hope for half the planet and pensioners everywhere.

I agree with manci: trying to live on less than 18,600 for three of you will be struggle in the UK. Also bear in mind that your wife in her 50s, is not retirement age in the UK.
e.g. For those of low income, there is the welfare benefit called Universal Credit, but there is a rule for mixed age couples. The younger partner (below UK state pension age) has to work and keep their pensioner partner and their children; while the pensions reduce the amount of Universal Credit paid £ for £.

Returning Brits also need a 5 month savings buffer as they cannot claim for 3 months and it takes another 5 plus weeks for UC to start as it also pays in arrears.

However, savings and capital from £16,000, in any country, is too much to have Universal Credit. That capital includes property that is owned but not lived in.

Also there is no more claiming a UK state pension through a partners NIC contributions with the UK's New State Pension. UK state pensions are only paid on our own NIC contributions/credits.

It's also a minimum of 10 NIC qualifying tax years for a minimm UK state pension. The tax year state retirment age is reached does not count as one of those years for a UK state pension, even if in that year enough NICs was paid to make it a qualifying year.

In regard of NIC contributions, I thought the rule was 30 years for a full pension. I qualify for that. I also have a Royal Navy pension and combined would be a taxable income. My wife is not 50 but nearer 60 and is not eligible for "funds at public expense."

In regard of 18600 not being enough to live on. Why then is the 0% tax rate set lower than that? Seems odd.

Also with around 500K of value to come to the UK, after the house sale and then to buy a house, not rent. Our monthlies are low. These savings would easily qualify us but means we have to sell up before even applying for a visa and must be in an account for 3 months. The rules for a spousal visa are "cruel and unusual punishment" but not unexpected from a civil service that historically has been resistant to immigration, no matter the colour of the government.

Also without a fixed abode in the UK before arriving you cannot register a child in a state school. We will send her to an independent school for her exams. An independent seems about 12K per year in the area we would choose. Certainly our friends pay that in a quality school in Durham. We have funds for that.

Also we wont live in the south but a more economical area ( we like the north and north east ). I see our outgoings being minimal. Food costs are considerably lower in the UK than where we live and we probable spend less than 500 on domestic costs monthly. Car? Don't need one and have been used to public transport for 20 years but yes public transport in the UK is scary expensive. If a car then 3k will buy a second hand Q10 or Micra at 0 or 20 road tax and we would do minimal miles so low insurance. We have these figures from friends recently settled in the North East. Also property taxes are comparable here to UK where the house size is 10 times bigger.

Also as a citizen I have access to benefits, if I needed but never seek in real life. I have never been or seek to be, a sponge. Also my daughter a citizen is able to have benefits based on a low income family. My wife is not and will not, in the future, be able to take benefits except perhaps the use of the local A&E dept if needed. No dental NHS, no benefits at public expense. IF I die, then she gets half my pension and also her visa status will change as the dependent of my daughter.

Anyway my enquiry is not about living, it's about the predicament we find ourselves in, not being a traditional visa seeker. There has been some interesting information generated here and I thank you all for it. A discussion on living is not pertinent to the posting. Thanks.

The MAC regrets?

I wonder if in view of inflation a review of the minimum income required for a spouse visa might result in the raising rather than the lowering of the £18,600 threshold?

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

In regard of NIC contributions, I thought the rule was 30 years for a full pension. I qualify for that.

You said you are nearly 70, but how near? Have you reached UK pension age? e.g. those born in the tax year of 1953/54 would have reached state pesnion age at about 65 years and 6 months.


The years you require depends when you reached UK state retirement age. The state pension age has risen and will still rise.

It used to be 44 years for men and 39 years for women for a full state pension, with a minimum of of 10 qualifying tax years for a minimum weekly state pension. e.g. For a male having 10 qualifying years, I work that out as getting just over 1/4 of the weekly state pension paid?

Bierfly they brought in only 30 years and only need 1 qualifying year. e.g. 1 year would get 1 30th of the weekly state pension in retirement.

From those who reached state pension age from 6 April 2016, there is now the New State Pension. Different rule for partners who haven't contriubted, deferred pensions and 35 years needed for the ful state pension. However the pensioner can't carry all their qualifying years before 6 April 2022, over to the new state pension if that is more than 35 Q years; roughtly, you can carry 30 years over. You can buy extra years for after 16 April 2022, but only if that is in the tax year before you reached state pension age.

Its very complicated and the easiest way to work this out is to get a pension forecast.
https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

In regard of 18600 not being enough to live on. Why then is the 0% tax rate set lower than that? Seems odd.

Pensioners pay taxes too.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

Also with around 500K of value to come to the UK, after the house sale and then to buy a house, not rent. Our monthlies are low. These savings would easily qualify us but means we have to sell up before even applying for a visa and must be in an account for 3 months.

I think that you have to prove you have owned the house for 6 months or esle saving have to held for 6 months (to use for a spouse visa). Wait for others to confirm.

However, the visas seem to be taking 24 weeks due to staff being moved from spouse visas to help with the Ukraine visas. Again, wait for others to confirm.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

Also as a citizen I have access to benefits.

Only access to some means tested benefits, maybe, and as said above, that has a cutoff of 16k in savings, capitlal in any country. As also said, there is a wait for welfare benfits as a Brit is not allowed to return to the UK and claim benefits straight away. That was brought in to stop EU citizens doing this when they came to the UK under the EU free movement, to stop a challenge from the EU courts.

For contribution based benefits, you would need to have worked in the UK for the two relevant tax years before you claim.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

Also my daughter a citizen is able to have benefits based on a low income family.

No, a child cannot claim low income welfare payments. You, the Brit could perhaps claim for your British child after 6 months via the Universal Credit Welfare benefit, but woulkd only be allowed thsi if you qualify for it, as expained in my previous post.

You (the British citizen) can claim Child Benefit for your British child in your name onlu, but that also is 3 months wait because (as expalined) you can't have benefits as soon as you return.

If you try to claim the welfare benfifit Council Tax Reduction from your council if you are very low income and have little to none savings, a CTR claim might breach your wife's visa conditins as this is a public fund. You can read how she would accidently do that on links in this thread
claiming-benefits/universal-credit-clai ... 02126.html

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

My wife is not and will not, in the future, be able to take benefits

She will have to be on a joint low income claim you make (Universal Credit) but if you meet the requirments, you can't take extra money for her. However her earnings will reduce a monthly UC payment; and your pensions and hers, will reduce the UC payment £ for £.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

except perhaps the use of the local A&E dept if needed.

To have a spouse visa, she will need to pay £1872.00 Immigration Health Surchage, in additon to the visa fee. While she holds a valid spouse visa and lives in the UK, she can use the NHS, just as you can as a returning Brit.
https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

No dental

Dental treatment is not free anyway. people pay by bands, according to the treatment they need. NHS dentists are also very hard to find and are not free or cheap.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

no benefits at public expense

She can have publuc finds when she is granted ILR, which takes at least 5 years and at least 2 visas to meet the requirments of and pay for, plus pay for 2 and a half years of the Immigration Health Surcharge again.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

IF I die, then she gets half my pension and also her visa status will change as the dependent of my daughter.

When you die, if she has a visa to live in the UK and if that is before she has been granted ILR, she can apply to have ILR.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:58 pm

Anyway my enquiry is not about living, it's about the predicament we find ourselves in, not being a traditional visa seeker.

But your wife is a traditionall visa seeker; many come to the UK as a wife of a British citizen.

As I said before, the Home Office / Foreign Office or whatever they call it now, do not want foreigners of any type in the UK. It's been like that forever. We where all really surprised at the open door policy of the BNO visa system and how efficient it was. Yes, quite expensive for a family to pay all the dues required but most coming over had a large amount of capital from their house sales. Most are cash millionaires. Now you have PhD's working in Waitrose, just to find something to do and not look like a burden and it reminds me of the East Asians that came over from Uganda so long ago and now are some of the richest business families in the UK. BNOs are incredibly grateful and want to pay back to the UK. Also UK neighbours have been incredibly welcoming.

FYI, not going to go through all your points one by one as this is not about benefits.
Enough to say I was born in 54. 23 years in the Navy, 12 years in my own business. Came here in 2004.
I have enough NI under any accounting to get full anything. But, as we will have income from our business here and from a UK one being set up with friends arrived under BNO, earnings should be enough and we don't want benefits . Plus I have enough businesses that will underwrite my wife if needs be.

It's just that the whole system revolves around work first, then free money savings and not tangible monetised assets. No avenues for the retired community. There is a feeling, and I can understand why as certain cultures have " taken advantage" over the years, that everyone wants to come and suck up benefits. Social media is full of claims, even though asylum seekers, the main target, are basically entitled to nothing, of taking everything and living in luxury hotels.

We have a just cause for my citizen daughter to take up private UK education, with the family having plenty of savings to adequately survive many, many years and she should have the right to have the support of immediate family about her. Not just the one with a British passport. All this without jumping through incredibly small hoops. Oh, and constantly changing legislation.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:05 am

Social media is full of claims, even though asylum seekers, the main target, are basically entitled to nothing, of taking everything and living in luxury hotels.

Possibly false claims?

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:05 am

FYI, not going to go through all your points one by one as this is not about benefits.

I replied to your statements about benefits.

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:05 am

Enough to say I was born in 54. 23 years in the Navy, 12 years in my own business. Came here in 2004.
I have enough NI under any accounting to get full anything.

Then you reached state pension age after April 2016 and you come under the New State Pension. You won't get the full New State Pension, unless you buy some tax years after April 2016, up to the tax year before you reach state pension age.

JB007 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:48 am

From those who reached state pension age from 6 April 2016, there is now the New State Pension. Different rule for partners who haven't contriubted, deferred pensions and 35 years needed for the ful state pension. However the pensioner can't carry all their qualifying years before 6 April 2022, over to the new state pension if that is more than 35 Q years; roughtly, you can carry 30 years over. You can buy extra years for after 16 April 2022, but only if that is in the tax year before you reached state pension age.

Its very complicated and the easiest way to work this out is to get a pension forecast.
https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

vinny wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:26 am

davidpratthk wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:05 am

Social media is full of claims, even though asylum seekers, the main target, are basically entitled to nothing, of taking everything and living in luxury hotels.

Possibly false claims?

Of course. But that is social media driving the agenda after all. Not for informed people