Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

GSOtodd · Post by **GSOtodd** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:11 pm

I'm starting to feel that way. Is this the only country that changes rules retrospectively?

Wright · Post by **Wright** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:03 pm

GSOtodd wrote:I'm starting to feel that way. Is this the only country that changes rules retrospectively?

Well, there are no gurantees in life and the world is not fair. So the best things is not having regret but pat yourself in the back that you did give it the best shot and move on. Life itself is not guranteed it can end an moment.

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:50 pm

Hi Todd,
I'm not sure, where you come from or on what visa you maybe on, but I assume you have some sort of British link, which probally adds to your frustrations.
Life not fair and the UK has a record of changing the rules all the time.
Saying all that, when I started off on my long quest to become British, which should really have being given too me as a birth right via my British born mother, I thought it would take five years.
Well it's became six years and cost me almost double in Â£, because of extentions and increased fees ect.
The biggest joke is that towards the end of 2009 with the new law changes, I would be able to claim my citizenship via my Mum anyhow.
So is life fair??
Hang in there things will improve sooner or later.

joe777 · Post by **joe777** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:01 am

Siggi wrote:Hang in there things will improve sooner or later.

things will get better, even brits married to non europeans have to face mountains to climb, the cost, time and frustration of applying for a settlement visa, FLR, ILR, life in uk test, citizenship and it doesn't end there, as my wife is an IMG, she has to do ielts, 2 plab exams b4 she can work as a doc

, but her journey is near an end, and she will be free from the gov and GMC controlling her life

ilr_hopeful · Post by **ilr_hopeful** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:21 am

I empathise with you...

One comes to the country with a promise of a better life and is willing to put in a specific amount of time to grab the carrot at the end of the stick.

Now, the opportunity cost of this investment is massive... these are some of the best years of my life and maybe if I invested this time elsewhere (maybe Australia, Canada, Timbuctoo, ...) I would have had a clearer promise of a settlement and put this whole running after visa extensions behind my back and concentrate on my work or whatever I do best.

Ofcourse, there are few methods available to calculate this opportunity cost. Its like "you continue to put in your hard work and pay me taxes and I'll decide when my coffers are full and delay the permanent citizenship".

What was that? You wish to leave the country... sure, by all means! I'll get some more people who are willing to give me their best years and fall for the new 8-years-to-citizenship rule (which, I'll obviously change a few years after they catch the bait)... You see, there never IS a carrot at the end... just a stick.

Nice way to "recycle" people... Sorry 'bout my rant... needed to get that out of my system... feel much better now.

Cheers.

whirly · Post by **whirly** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:48 pm

I have had a relatively easy time here, although most of that was just being lucky with timing. I'm happy to have made my home here and look forward to staying here for the foreseeable future. I know that many of my friends and people in this forum have not been so lucky, though. I feel for you...

Whenever I feel bad about the UK, I compare it to the life I had in Japan. At one point, I was ready to spend my whole life there, but even after 20 years I probably would have just acquired permanent residency. Almost no chance of citizenship. Fewer rights as a homeowner, potential mother, resident, human being. (I exaggerate, but not by much.) Mandatory police registration. Mandatory 'Alien Registration Card'. Fingerprints at the airport after every trip. etc etc.

I don't think the path to citizenship is much better in the USA or Ireland than in the UK, either. If you really want to weep, go check out the citizenship tracker timeline on the Ireland board. We whinge about 4 month wait times for citizenship in the UK. In Ireland, they're lucky to complete the process in under 4 years!

There is always someone in a situation worse than yours... Best you can do is count your blessings. When the cons outweigh the pros of living here, it's time to move on.

As for retrospective changes, that's just so wrong. My husband and I have both written to our MP. Still waiting for her reply!

habibi · Post by **habibi** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:09 am

theres no point in regreting going somewhere. if you dont like it you can always leave.

Markie · Post by **Markie** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:13 am

No one can "see" his future. If this was true then all would have instant millionaires!!! It's your best decision at that point in time when you decided to come here and you should not feel bad for it - unless you were forced to be here and that's another storyline.

GSOtodd wrote:I'm starting to feel that way. Is this the only country that changes rules retrospectively?

bbkaran · Post by **bbkaran** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:51 pm

You are kind of forced to be here. You came in becasue you were promised in wrinting certain status. To prove your commitment you had to give up everything you had in your home country. Now you can't go anywhere and you are forced to live here. Makes sense?

Markie wrote:No one can "see" his future. If this was true then all would have instant millionaires!!! It's your best decision at that point in time when you decided to come here and you should not feel bad for it - unless you were forced to be here and that's another storyline.

GSOtodd wrote:I'm starting to feel that way. Is this the only country that changes rules retrospectively?

bbkaran · Post by **bbkaran** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:54 pm

Wright wrote:
GSOtodd wrote:I'm starting to feel that way. Is this the only country that changes rules retrospectively?
Well, there are no gurantees in life and the world is not fair. So the best things is not having regret but pat yourself in the back that you did give it the best shot and move on. Life itself is not guranteed it can end an moment.

True. no guarantees in life. Especially if you are a HSMP immigrant from a non-european country.

Markie · Post by **Markie** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:55 am

The UK alone did not force you to be here in the first place...it was YOUR decision...not theirs.

bbkaran wrote:You are kind of forced to be here. You came in becasue you were promised in wrinting certain status. To prove your commitment you had to give up everything you had in your home country. Now you can't go anywhere and you are forced to live here. Makes sense?

Markie wrote:No one can "see" his future. If this was true then all would have instant millionaires!!! It's your best decision at that point in time when you decided to come here and you should not feel bad for it - unless you were forced to be here and that's another storyline.

GSOtodd wrote:I'm starting to feel that way. Is this the only country that changes rules retrospectively?

global gypsy · Post by **global gypsy** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:31 pm

Markie wrote:The UK alone did not force you to be here in the first place...it was YOUR decision...not theirs.

bbkaran wrote:You are kind of forced to be here. You came in becasue you were promised in wrinting certain status. To prove your commitment you had to give up everything you had in your home country. Now you can't go anywhere and you are forced to live here. Makes sense?

Markie wrote:No one can "see" his future. If this was true then all would have instant millionaires!!! It's your best decision at that point in time when you decided to come here and you should not feel bad for it - unless you were forced to be here and that's another storyline.

GSOtodd wrote:I'm starting to feel that way. Is this the only country that changes rules retrospectively?

Well, supposing you go to a restaurant that advertises all-you-can-eat dinner for Â£20, then halfway thru your dinner they tell you the price has been increased to Â£30! The changing of goalposts and applying them retroactively to people who have already been here is quite similar.
And wrong.
That's the whole point.

(Would you say 'the restaurant didn't force you to go there?' No, you would sue them.)

paulp · Post by **paulp** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:06 pm

There is a difference to the restaurant analogy. The path to settlement and citizenship is not one big step but many small steps each with its own checkpoints and requirements to satisfy.

The HSMP literature at the time, by saying 4 years to settlement, created an expection but did not explicitly state that the requirements and criteria for the other steps (HSMP only allowing somebody to work) would not change in the future. Everybody knows that these steps are quite separate and can change at any time.

UKBAbble · Post by **UKBAbble** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:39 pm

The whole concept of PSW is a liberalisation of the rules anyway; students were formerly expected to leave on completion of their studies.

republique · Post by **republique** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:27 pm

paulp wrote:There is a difference to the restaurant analogy. The path to settlement and citizenship is not one big step but many small steps each with its own checkpoints and requirements to satisfy.

The HSMP literature at the time, by saying 4 years to settlement, created an expection but did not explicitly state that the requirements and criteria for the other steps (HSMP only allowing somebody to work) would not change in the future. Everybody knows that these steps are quite separate and can change at any time.

Yes but because of this info, one made a choice and let go other choices such as other visas to work in different countries or staying where they were because they were willing to come since it took 4 years versus 5 years which was better than other countries.
Otherwise the choice was not informed. If they had said or changed it sot that it took 2 years of ILR before citizenship, then I think the outrage would not have been so vocal.

gorajim · Post by **gorajim** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:33 pm

Its like driving on the motorway... during one of those "phantom" traffic jams, you are not really certain which lane would end up fastest...

You have the option of staying in your lane, or changing lanes... either way, the result of your outcome does not depend on where you have been, but on where to are at the moment... everytime you change lanes, that outcome can and will bear a different result...

Sorry mates, been driving too much lately...

Cheers.

Wright · Post by **Wright** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:55 am

bbkaran wrote:True. no guarantees in life. Especially if you are a HSMP immigrant from a non-european country.

The point is no amount of regret is gonna change the past, if anything will only increase one's stress level.

The best way course of action IMHO will be to look to future and decide where to move on from here and learn the lesson from this next time may be one should always hedge his bet always keep open other options until his status is secured.

Channelling all your energy and brainpower to plan the future accept UK has right to do whatever it wants with its immigration laws and policies most of the time are fair but they can use their discretion and change them restrospective for non UK citizens during exception times (During wars, massive immigration in short space of time, economic downturn, terrorism threat etc) as they see fit. By the way all of the above 4 things are happens to UK. Accept that was one of those black Swan events and you happened to be on wrong side of it at the wrong time.

People affected need know they can still have great future here or elsewhere if they don't lose their confidence. Don't make that setback become disaster or terminal.

Wright · Post by **Wright** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:20 am

global gypsy wrote:
Markie wrote:The UK alone did not force you to be here in the first place...it was YOUR decision...not theirs.

bbkaran wrote:You are kind of forced to be here. You came in becasue you were promised in wrinting certain status. To prove your commitment you had to give up everything you had in your home country. Now you can't go anywhere and you are forced to live here. Makes sense?

Markie wrote:No one can "see" his future. If this was true then all would have instant millionaires!!! It's your best decision at that point in time when you decided to come here and you should not feel bad for it - unless you were forced to be here and that's another storyline.

Well, supposing you go to a restaurant that advertises all-you-can-eat dinner for Â£20, then halfway thru your dinner they tell you the price has been increased to Â£30! The changing of goalposts and applying them retroactively to people who have already been here is quite similar.
And wrong.
That's the whole point.

(Would you say 'the restaurant didn't force you to go there?' No, you would sue them.)

What if you sue them and judge agree with "the restaurant". The restaurant had infact clause which says they reserve the rights to change the price any any moment notice before or during your dinner the only exception is they can't do it after your finish the dinner and everybody who eat there had sign on to these agreement which are in very small print on the menu most of diners didn't notice that clause in a small print.

Wright · Post by **Wright** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:21 am

gorajim wrote:Its like driving on the motorway... during one of those "phantom" traffic jams, you are not really certain which lane would end up fastest...

You have the option of staying in your lane, or changing lanes... either way, the result of your outcome does not depend on where you have been, but on where to are at the moment... everytime you change lanes, that outcome can and will bear a different result...

Sorry mates, been driving too much lately...

Cheers.

Talking about cars, You can also have accident just because the other driver is drunk and hit you. You can't legislate for events like that no matter how careful you are.

Wright · Post by **Wright** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:10 am

Wright wrote:
gorajim wrote:Its like driving on the motorway... during one of those "phantom" traffic jams, you are not really certain which lane would end up fastest...

You have the option of staying in your lane, or changing lanes... either way, the result of your outcome does not depend on where you have been, but on where to are at the moment... everytime you change lanes, that outcome can and will bear a different result...

Sorry mates, been driving too much lately...

Cheers.
Talking about cars, You can have accident just because the other driver is drunk and hit you. You can't legislate for events like that no matter how careful you are.

UKbound · Post by **UKbound** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:18 pm

"The HSMP literature at the time, by saying 4 years to settlement, created an expection but did not explicitly state that the requirements and criteria for the other steps (HSMP only allowing somebody to work) would not change in the future. Everybody knows that these steps are quite separate and can change at any time."

Actually, that's not true. The Q&A in place when I applied said that any changes would not apply to the process that I would have to follow, only to future applicants coming to the UK. This is one of the main reasons why the Judicial Review was successful. It was stated explicitly, clear as day.

I believe that these changes were eliminated in 2006, though. The current Tier 1 info says that you must qualify under whatever criteria is in place at the time you renew/apply.

bbkaran · Post by **bbkaran** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:36 pm

Wright wrote:
global gypsy wrote:
Markie wrote:The UK alone did not force you to be here in the first place...it was YOUR decision...not theirs.

bbkaran wrote:You are kind of forced to be here. You came in becasue you were promised in wrinting certain status. To prove your commitment you had to give up everything you had in your home country. Now you can't go anywhere and you are forced to live here. Makes sense?

Well, supposing you go to a restaurant that advertises all-you-can-eat dinner for Â£20, then halfway thru your dinner they tell you the price has been increased to Â£30! The changing of goalposts and applying them retroactively to people who have already been here is quite similar.
And wrong.
That's the whole point.

(Would you say 'the restaurant didn't force you to go there?' No, you would sue them.)
What if you sue them and judge agree with "the restaurant". The restaurant had infact clause which says they reserve the rights to change the price any any moment notice before or during your dinner the only exception is they can't do it after your finish the dinner and everybody who eat there had sign on to these agreement which are in very small print on the menu most of diners didn't notice that clause in a small print.

Are you suggesting that HSMP visa holders signed upto this "small Print: Right to change rules"? If that is the case then they have no reason to complain about.

bbkaran · Post by **bbkaran** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:40 pm

Wright wrote:
bbkaran wrote:True. no guarantees in life. Especially if you are a HSMP immigrant from a non-european country.
The point is no amount of regret is gonna change the past, if anything will only increase one's stress level.

The best way course of action IMHO will be to look to future and decide where to move on from here and learn the lesson from this next time may be one should always hedge his bet always keep open other options until his status is secured.

Channelling all your energy and brainpower to plan the future accept UK has right to do whatever it wants with its immigration laws and policies most of the time are fair but they can use their discretion and change them restrospective for non UK citizens during exception times (During wars, massive immigration in short space of time, economic downturn, terrorism threat etc) as they see fit. By the way all of the above 4 things are happens to UK. Accept that was one of those black Swan events and you happened to be on wrong side of it at the wrong time.

People affected need know they can still have great future here or elsewhere if they don't lose their confidence. Don't make that setback become disaster or terminal.

I agree that British System is one of the fairest in the world. That is one of the reasons for people wanting to migrate here.

Wright · Post by **Wright** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:53 am

bbkaran wrote:
Wright wrote:
global gypsy wrote:
Markie wrote:The UK alone did not force you to be here in the first place...it was YOUR decision...not theirs.

Well, supposing you go to a restaurant that advertises all-you-can-eat dinner for Â£20, then halfway thru your dinner they tell you the price has been increased to Â£30! The changing of goalposts and applying them retroactively to people who have already been here is quite similar.
And wrong.
That's the whole point.

(Would you say 'the restaurant didn't force you to go there?' No, you would sue them.)
What if you sue them and judge agree with "the restaurant". The restaurant had infact clause which says they reserve the rights to change the price any any moment notice before or during your dinner the only exception is they can't do it after your finish the dinner and everybody who eat there had sign on to these agreement which are in very small print on the menu most of diners didn't notice that clause in a small print.
Are you suggesting that HSMP visa holders signed upto this "small Print: Right to change rules"? If that is the case then they have no reason to complain about.

Exactly. They have indeed not only HSMP but also all visa nationals who come to UK. You see every country has inherent right and reserve the right to to use their discretion on certain circumstances. Now, they might not use it at all for ages but it is there nonetheless.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?

Re: Is anyone sorry that they moved here?